Rat Wall?

[elm3420]

I am looking at having a pole barn built this spring/summer. It is going to be 36 x 64 x 14. I am planning on putting a concrete floor in. I am leaning towards a 6" floor. Do I need to have a rat wall? I am getting some mixed answers from the builders.

 

[Tazzie]

You will need to ask the building dept. where you are located. Where I am located they changed the rat wall requirement so you would not have to put one in. The main reason is that the wall was only 24" deep and caused some trouble with the frost heaving the slab. Good luck on your build.

 

[CanadaBoy]

18 inch rat wall if under 500 square feet, 4' frost wall otherwise here in ontario. Ask the building dept they are there to help you.

 

[plow]

Just how big are your rats?

 

[elm3420]

If the building inspector tells me that I do not need one. Do I need one? Is the only benefit that it keeps animals from tunneling under the slab?

 

[mrobins297aaa]

the inspector made me put one in I think it was 18"x6".............i built the exact same size barn that you are going to build

 

[mrobins297aaa]

why would you want a 6" floor?.........are you parking a bull dozer in there or something really heavy?

 

[elm3420]

I am thinking about putting a cnc machining center and cnc lathe in down the road. Is 6" an over kill for something like that?

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I wouldn't know, I just thought it would be for just parking cars.
where are you located?

 

[elm3420]

South east michigan. North of Toledo

 

[mrobins297aaa]

what does the inspector say about the rat wall?

 

[elm3420]

I have not talked to him about it yet. I have been trying to get all my ducks in a row first so that I can ask him all my questions at once. My neighbor just put up a 60 x120 x 16 and i don't think he did one though. He is zoned ag though it may be different for him. Where are you located at?

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I'm out by Capac, not exactly se mich, but if your looking at the state as whole i guess it se mich.
I think there is a lot of barns out there without a rat wall and when i did mine i didn't want to do it either, but it does provide a lot of protection from the frost. On the front of my barn i have a 18'x8' door, the slab in the barn has a rat wall under it, the butting approach slab does not (there's a exp. jt between them), every year that approach slab rises up a good 3/4" of a inch where the barn floor slab stays put (so far). Now i now the usual footing around here is 42" but my slab has stay put and we have had the coldest weather around here i can remember.

as far as your neighbor, around here if your zoned ag you only have a zoning inspection, the township told me, you stake out the building and lot lines and they come out and inspect that you have the required set backs and if thats ok your on your own do what ever you want.

 

[elm3420]

I have been told a couple of differing opinions by some of the companies that I am getting quotes from. I think I will call the inspector this week and put it to rest. Thanks for the info.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

another thing the inspector made me do was he didn't want to see any concrete touching the posts............so i used some shingle cut offs.
Also i think the rat wall does help to lock the post in some what.

 

[elm3420]

That is pretty interesting. I have not heard of that before. Why didn't he want the concrete touching the post?

 

[mrobins297aaa]

he said that there was some evidence out there that the concrete traps the water against the post and rots them out...........i don't know, i'm sure there are tons of them out there with the concrete poured right up against them.

also he wanted either stainless steel or double dipped galv nails into all the treated wood

just curious what kind of pricing are you getting?

Mine was 23K, same size as yours, 1-18x8 high lift door in front and 1 10'x12' door in back, 2 walk thru doors, 4 windows, trusses 2' on center shingled roof, 1' over hang 3 sides. no concrete, i had a friend do that.

 

[elm3420]

25k. 36 x 64 x 14. Trusses 4 o.c. 1 man door. 1-12 x 12 insulated over head door, 1-16 x 8 insulated overhead, and 1-12 x 13 insulated overhead door. No concrete.

 

[600SL]

I am thinking about putting a cnc machining center and cnc lathe in down the road. Is 6" an over kill for something like that?

I used 6" with rebar for the same reason. Heavy machines and a car lift.

 

[Tazzie]

Another option for rat protection is to cut the left over siding into 2 foot long strips and dig down on the outside of the building and install. Then with the trench opened up that is a good time to also install 2" foam board to keep the frost from pushing under the slab. This will also help keep the ground hogs out.

 

[chads2slow]

I put in a rat barrier because I have in floor heat and my friend didn't. He also has in floor heat and if he sits still and is quiet he can hear rodents under the floor. I have not heard anything under my floor yet. And hope I don't

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[bsg]

I am looking at having a pole barn built this spring/summer. It is going to be 36 x 64 x 14. I am planning on putting a concrete floor in. I am leaning towards a 6" floor. Do I need to have a rat wall? I am getting some mixed answers from the builders.

I'm in Imlay City and was talked out of the concrete rat wall.
I was told by my builder that they have been having problems with it cracking the floor several feet in from the edge of the foundation, instead i went with 18" inches of 3/4 pressure treated ground contact OSB.

another thing the inspector made me do was he didn't want to see any concrete touching the posts............so i used some shingle cut offs.
Also i think the rat wall does help to lock the post in some what.

Are you in Lapeer county?
My concrete surrounds the posts, they are pressure treated for the first six feet.

The rat wall in my area is not for the rats but the damn ground hogs.

Kevin

 

[CanadaBoy]

And skunks! Big prob and I am just across the lake from there.

 

[elm3420]

If the rat wall is not required by the building inspector is it really necessary?

 

[elm3420]

The debate is over. I was able to get a hold of the building inspector today and he told me that I am required to dig a 4" wide by 18" deep trench and fill it with concrete for the rat wall. Thanks for all the input that everyone gave me. It all was ery helpful.

 

[Abj87]

I am thinking about putting a cnc machining center and cnc lathe in down the road. Is 6" an over kill for something like that?

How big of a machine?

The Mazak horizontals we installed required a 8in pad.



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[elm3420]

Probably something the size of a Mazak Nexus 510C or 410A. And a Smaller Mazak Quickturn. 18" Chuck

 

[sz0k30]

In my younger years I was a city boy. @ 20 years ago I moved out to "The Country". I had a 32x48x12 pole barn built on a hill. The builder said pole barns are normally built with floating slabs and no rat walls. I figured he knew what he was doing & I didn't know any better so I said OK. BIG MISTAKE. Between ground settling and sliding down the hill and ground hogs, the cement floor is all cracked and uneven.

Definitely get a proper rat wall/foundation.

 

[Wes Tex]

At the risk of appearing really dumb, what is a "rat wall?" We have rats in west Texas, but I never heard of requiring a wall to keep them away. You guys must have some big, mean rats.

 

[elm3420]

A rat wall is a wall under the concrete slab around the perimeter of the building to keep rodents from digging under the building. The building inspector also told me that if there are no gutters on the building it will also stop erosion from under the concrete.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I'm in Imlay City and was talked out of the concrete rat wall.
I was told by my builder that they have been having problems with it cracking the floor several feet in from the edge of the foundation, instead i went with 18" inches of 3/4 pressure treated ground contact OSB.




Are you in Lapeer county?
My concrete surrounds the posts, they are pressure treated for the first six feet.

The rat wall in my area is not for the rats but the damn ground hogs.

Kevin

I'm in st clair county

 

[mrobins297aaa]

A rat wall is a wall under the concrete slab around the perimeter of the building to keep rodents from digging under the building. The building inspector also told me that if there are no gutters on the building it will also stop erosion from under the concrete.

thats another good point, that i haven't even thought of.

 

[bsg]

In my younger years I was a city boy. @ 20 years ago I moved out to "The Country". I had a 32x48x12 pole barn built on a hill. The builder said pole barns are normally built with floating slabs and no rat walls. I figured he knew what he was doing & I didn't know any better so I said OK. BIG MISTAKE. Between ground settling and sliding down the hill and ground hogs, the cement floor is all cracked and uneven.

Definitely get a proper rat wall/foundation.

Rat wall would not keep the building from sliding down the hill!
The lack of satisfactory site prep work is more than likely what caused your problems.

The good ol boys use to do things and that's the way they have done it for years, 9 out of 10 times it probably would have been fine.

I would not put a concrete rat wall down unless it extended past the frost line, but then it's not a rat wall anymore but a foundation.

Kevin