Ratchet Extensions That Don't Twist

[WhiffySpark]

Just so people know they are not impact rated although they are black like most impact tools. It’s stamped right on the extension. Do not impact. With a maximum torque rating..

I’m not saying I don’t use an impact on them, but be careful as it not designed for it. And if you twist it into a pretzel good luck with warranty...

They all say that. All the adapters etc. I snapped a 1inch or 3/4 to 1/2 black one and he laughed at me when I warrantied it. Followed by how the f ck did you do this

 

[vssjim]

I use the !/2 extension with 3/8 they actually used to be called Transmission Extensions, but as far as 3/8 only extensions my SK and Proto are full size not reduced like the S-O extensions I have or others and the full size shafts twist the least.

 

[T45]

The heat-treat on the steel is really the key factor, as is the quality of the steel. Those that seem to think they are all the same I think aren't fully paying attention. The problem with too much flex is "wind up", like trying to break a bolt loose with a bending-beam torque wrench. Yes, you can do it. No, its not fun.

The spring-action stores alot of energy, some of which is lost (not in terms of physics, but in terms of directing it to the bolt).

There are two cures to this problem: better spring design (ie, nicer steel/heat treatment) or stiffer altogether for less flex (see: 1/2 drive). Both will work, but the 1/2 drive or upsized drive (3/8 vs 1/4) carries alot more inertial mass. So its also not always the best option, either.

At the end of the day this is all about your wallet and if your problems are worth spening extra cash on the "best" vs "good enough" solution.

Personally, I would look at vintage and second hand and buy truck brands, proto, german steel, etc.

I will say I have some decent taiwan drives in 1/2 inch that get the job done as well. The tolerances are much better on 1/2 drive than the smaller drives for some reason on some of the cheap ones I have (same brand in multiple sizes).

Light duty extensions are also improved from good tolerances, which are rarely found on cheap socket sets in 1/4 drive in particular. For these reasons, high quality 1/4 drive and 3/8 drive extensions are a usefu investment if you do work where it matters.

If working on construction or rust-bucket junk, it wont matter because wood lag screws and rusty steel etx lack in hand "feel" anyway. If working on machine tooled applications, alloys and other things where hand-feel matters, then YMMV.

 

[WittHay]

The Snap-on 3/8" extensions 18" and longer are thicker than the shorter extensions. About 3/32" and it is noticeable looking at them side by side. Seem to recall reading somewhere, that the long Snap-on extensions are made by welding shorter pieces of metal together. Less twisting than 1 continuous shaft

 

[WhiffySpark]

The heat-treat on the steel is really the key factor, as is the quality of the steel. Those that seem to think they are all the same I think aren't fully paying attention. The problem with too much flex is "wind up", like trying to break a bolt loose with a bending-beam torque wrench. Yes, you can do it. No, its not fun.

The spring-action stores alot of energy, some of which is lost (not in terms of physics, but in terms of directing it to the bolt).

There are two cures to this problem: better spring design (ie, nicer steel/heat treatment) or stiffer altogether for less flex (see: 1/2 drive). Both will work, but the 1/2 drive or upsized drive (3/8 vs 1/4) carries alot more inertial mass. So its also not always the best option, either.

At the end of the day this is all about your wallet and if your problems are worth spening extra cash on the "best" vs "good enough" solution.

Personally, I would look at vintage and second hand and buy truck brands, proto, german steel, etc.

I will say I have some decent taiwan drives in 1/2 inch that get the job done as well. The tolerances are much better on 1/2 drive than the smaller drives for some reason on some of the cheap ones I have (same brand in multiple sizes).

Light duty extensions are also improved from good tolerances, which are rarely found on cheap socket sets in 1/4 drive in particular. For these reasons, high quality 1/4 drive and 3/8 drive extensions are a usefu investment if you do work where it matters.

If working on construction or rust-bucket junk, it wont matter because wood lag screws and rusty steel etx lack in hand "feel" anyway. If working on machine tooled applications, alloys and other things where hand-feel matters, then YMMV.

When doing transmissions 1/2 doesn’t usually fit. That’s the issue. 3/8 swivel sockets and a 30+ extension are sometimes all that will fit

I wouldn’t worry about a torque wrench. Not sure what you would ever torque behind a 30+ extension lol. That’s got to be a crazy formula to do that

 

[Zewnten]

What T45 said is my problem with extensions twisting, and add in that usually when the energy is released the socket pops off the bolt and I have to line it all up again. I have a 30 something inch old Cornwell extension and it doesn't seem to twist but the end is kind of worn and doesn't hold sockets on very well. That's why I was looking for a tool truck alternative especially if I get new I would like to get the locking feature. Thanks again for the help.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

I wouldn’t worry about a torque wrench. Not sure what you would ever torque behind a 30+ extension lol. That’s got to be a crazy formula to do that

No formula needed. The static torque is the same on each end of the bar. Twist dosen't change it.

 

[noid]

The heat-treat on the steel is really the key factor, as is the quality of the steel. Those that seem to think they are all the same I think aren't fully paying attention. The problem with too much flex is "wind up", like trying to break a bolt loose with a bending-beam torque wrench. Yes, you can do it. No, its not fun.

The spring-action stores alot of energy, some of which is lost (not in terms of physics, but in terms of directing it to the bolt).

There are two cures to this problem: better spring design (ie, nicer steel/heat treatment) or stiffer altogether for less flex (see: 1/2 drive). Both will work, but the 1/2 drive or upsized drive (3/8 vs 1/4) carries alot more inertial mass. So its also not always the best option, either.

At the end of the day this is all about your wallet and if your problems are worth spening extra cash on the "best" vs "good enough" solution.

Personally, I would look at vintage and second hand and buy truck brands, proto, german steel, etc.

I will say I have some decent taiwan drives in 1/2 inch that get the job done as well. The tolerances are much better on 1/2 drive than the smaller drives for some reason on some of the cheap ones I have (same brand in multiple sizes).

Light duty extensions are also improved from good tolerances, which are rarely found on cheap socket sets in 1/4 drive in particular. For these reasons, high quality 1/4 drive and 3/8 drive extensions are a usefu investment if you do work where it matters.

If working on construction or rust-bucket junk, it wont matter because wood lag screws and rusty steel etx lack in hand "feel" anyway. If working on machine tooled applications, alloys and other things where hand-feel matters, then YMMV.

When doing transmissions 1/2 doesn’t usually fit. That’s the issue. 3/8 swivel sockets and a 30+ extension are sometimes all that will fit

I wouldn’t worry about a torque wrench. Not sure what you would ever torque behind a 30+ extension lol. That’s got to be a crazy formula to do that

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction; newtons third law. If you turn one side of the bar, the other end must have an equal affect. A bar under torsion (twist) acts like a spring. The stored energy in the ‘spring’ (torsion-ed bar) is a large force applied in a short period of time, and can be balanced by a smaller force at a longer period of time.

The longer the extension, or the thinner it is, the lower the spring constant. The spring constant is lower because a longer or thinner extension is less stiff and is therefore less springy.

In the real world, when talking about extensions bars and their extremely high spring constants, that delay between applying force on one end and it being fully applied at the other is in a matter of milliseconds. For those paranoid, once the force is applied, hold it for one second and you will have given the bar many magnitudes more time than it needs.

This video illustrates that even with 100 inches of extensions (absolutely ridiculous length), the torque accuracy does not change.

The only application where this doesnt apply is when using impact wrenches, as the duration of force is extremely short (how torque sticks work).

 

[T45]

The problem with using springs is they store energy, and then release it.

Its not that the energy is "lost", its that the feel is lost. Its like f@^king with a condom. The promlem in this case is also that the delay in energy application negatively effects the ability to break bolts loose. This is just empirical fact, regardless of equations.

If you spread out a force over time (think hammer blow) and you lose some useful properties there (hammer= concentrated force in small time). When breaking free a rusty bolt, you want to deliver force in quick-time...and thus you want to use use maximal stiffness. IE, maximally-sized square drives and maximal extensions for superior .

You can put a SO 1/4 drive ratchet x 10 inch on 50 ft pounds, but it won't break bolts as easily as using 1/2 drive x 10 inch. The 1/4 drive will start to look like a pole vault at some stage, and while it will devliver the torque (probably in some experiment) applied with a torque wrench, it won't deliver a predictable, maximal torque. Because the definition of bending is the torque to bend is lower threshold than the torque to turn bolts. Therefore, what you feel and what is applied is disconnected, and this creats crappy feedback to the end user.

Crappy feedback also leads to people pulling too hard, and putting excess energy into the sytem. If you are expecting 100 ft pounds is needed, and you push a spring until it it takes 100 ft pounds, there is alot more energy into the spring than if the spring was a non-spring. As with suspension, the purpose/function of the spring is not not allow the 100 ft pounds of that pothole hit you in the ***.

This is why you don't put springs in between your ratchet and the bolt. YOu want the ***-blasting force to go to the bolt.



This is why you have transmission extensions on 1/2 square drive female with 3/8 male-drive for the smaller sockets. Some mix of oversize dimensions in-between for more stiffness with appropriate clearnce for the job. (etc).

 

[noid]

The problem with using springs is they store energy, and then release it.

A spring delays the effect from one end to another; in both directions.

For example; a car when stationary doesn't weigh any less because you use a looser spring; the weight bearing down on the ground is the same whether the spring is stiff or not.

The variable is time. The spring will 'absorb' impact when you drive, because each jolt will be short duration. If you give the spring enough duration (when stopped), your car will be applying an equal amount of force to the ground regardless of how stiff your spring is.

Its not that the energy is "lost", its that the feel is lost. Its like f@^king with a condom. The promlem in this case is also that the delay in energy application negatively effects the ability to break bolts loose. This is just empirical fact, regardless of equations.

Empirical fact? That's not a thing.

The "delay in energy" does not negatively affect the ability to break bolts loose. The force on both ends is the same over time. When we talk about very high spring rates like what we are talking about here, that delay in time is extremely short (milliseconds).

Its common for people to assume they need to apply more force when they see torsion. Which causes that snap. Just go slower, its a duration thing, same result.

If you spread out a force over time (think hammer blow) and you lose some useful properties there (hammer= concentrated force in small time). When breaking free a rusty bolt, you want to deliver force in quick-time...and thus you want to use use maximal stiffness. IE, maximally-sized square drives and maximal extensions for superior .

When using an impact wrench yes; primarily because the 'hammering' effect does not last long enough before it is released and the next hammering effect gets applied.

When using hand tools, there wont be a difference, unless you are hammering your ratchet.

You can put a SO 1/4 drive ratchet x 10 inch on 50 ft pounds, but it won't break bolts as easily as using 1/2 drive x 10 inch. The 1/4 drive will start to look like a pole vault at some stage, and while it will devliver the torque (probably in some experiment) applied with a torque wrench, it won't deliver a predictable, maximal torque. Because the definition of bending is the torque to bend is lower threshold than the torque to turn bolts. Therefore, what you feel and what is applied is disconnected, and this creats crappy feedback to the end user.

This whole part is just down right incorrect.

Newtons third law doesn't care if you are using a 1/4 ratchet or a 1/2 ratchet.

"Feedback" or feel is a matter of time, go slower, you will feel just fine.

Crappy feedback also leads to people pulling too hard, and putting excess energy into the sytem. If you are expecting 100 ft pounds is needed, and you push a spring until it it takes 100 ft pounds, there is alot more energy into the spring than if the spring was a non-spring. As with suspension, the purpose/function of the spring is not not allow the 100 ft pounds of that pothole hit you in the ***.

I agree that people sometimes feel the need to over apply force because they misunderstand what is happening.

However, as I noted above, the purpose of the spring is to delay that 100 ft pounds. If you apply 100 lb to a spring and wait, you will get 100 lb on the other end.

The point about needing to apply more than 100lb into a spring to get more than 100lb on the other end is just down right incorrect.

This is why you don't put springs in between your ratchet and the bolt. YOu want the ***-blasting force to go to the bolt.



This is why you have transmission extensions on 1/2 square drive female with 3/8 male-drive for the smaller sockets. Some mix of oversize dimensions in-between for more stiffness with appropriate clearnce for the job. (etc).

Again, only applies if you are talking about an impact wrench. For a ratchet, it doesn't matter how soft your extensions are, the force will always be the same on the other end given time (milliseconds).