I read a negative comment (on the internet) by an owner of a 15 inch long 1/2 in drive Matco 88 tooth ratchet, saying that he bent it with his arm only, not using a pipe, and he was disappointed that it bent. I'm calling BS on that, but what about you guys, have you done this or seen that ? I suppose it might be possible with a really strong arm, but so far, I'm not buying it. What say you ?
Ratchet handle stiffness vs elasticity vs deformation
- Thread starter tattooman
- Start date
plinker
Well-known member
I know someone (not me) that split the head on the 24" locking flex 88, Not sure what he did with it to get it to do that, I would have figured the yoke ear(s) would have broke off.
Permanently bending a 1/2 drive ratchet by hand? I'd be somewhat skeptical myself. I've seen some handles flex pretty good, usually in 3/8 drive, but 24" 1/2 drive will do it with enough oomph attached.
Permanently bending a 1/2 drive ratchet by hand? I'd be somewhat skeptical myself. I've seen some handles flex pretty good, usually in 3/8 drive, but 24" 1/2 drive will do it with enough oomph attached.
Yup, I've got a Matco 1/2" 24" length breaker bar, I've seen the handle bend a few times pulling on that sucker really hard but it's always sprung back to it's original shape.
nbpt100
Well-known member
Deflect, maybe. Plastially deform, BS. Unless the guy is Charles Atlas. Is he?
Mechanical Noise
Well-known member
Maybe there was something wrong with that particular ratchet. Heat treatment? Supplier sent the wrong steel? An inclusion? That's what warranties are for.
There are lucrative trades for a man who can bend steel in his bare hands in a Superman sense and not just in a coathanger sense.
Legend has it that professional wrestler Baron von Raschke would periodically go into hardware stores and break pairs of pliers with his awesome, superhuman grip. The legend says The Baron did abide by the "You break it, you buy it" rule. It's less clear what sorts of pliers The Baron squeezed into scrap metal.
And it's conceivable the legend may not be exactly true. Believing anything out of the world of professional wrestling is optional.
There are lucrative trades for a man who can bend steel in his bare hands in a Superman sense and not just in a coathanger sense.
Legend has it that professional wrestler Baron von Raschke would periodically go into hardware stores and break pairs of pliers with his awesome, superhuman grip. The legend says The Baron did abide by the "You break it, you buy it" rule. It's less clear what sorts of pliers The Baron squeezed into scrap metal.
And it's conceivable the legend may not be exactly true. Believing anything out of the world of professional wrestling is optional.
If you don't like what the OP is posting why are you commenting?
matt_i
Well-known member
Anything is possible. I have a Williams Supercombo wrench that missed the machining of the OE wrench.
I'd say its easily possible for a ratchet to miss a heat treat step or have an inclusion in the material, its not like there are easy visual clues that a defect originated from a previous manufacturing step and the material quality can be suspect.
That said, in "design intent condition" I don't think it would be possible. Maybe Ahhnold back in the day or a 340# nose guard (defensive tackle) in peak form.
I'd say its easily possible for a ratchet to miss a heat treat step or have an inclusion in the material, its not like there are easy visual clues that a defect originated from a previous manufacturing step and the material quality can be suspect.
That said, in "design intent condition" I don't think it would be possible. Maybe Ahhnold back in the day or a 340# nose guard (defensive tackle) in peak form.
strutaeng
Well-known member
Yeah, I would not worry about the comment. It's not like the internet is ALWAYS correct anyways, LOL A lot of the stuff you read is pure made-up bull poop.
There are equations out there to calculate what force is required to yield a material. Everything else is known, such as the material properties, modulus of elasticity, cross section of the ratchet, length of moment arm (length of ratchet to center of head) etc. Solve for F, force. Easy.
Someone here I'm sure can calculate it.
There are equations out there to calculate what force is required to yield a material. Everything else is known, such as the material properties, modulus of elasticity, cross section of the ratchet, length of moment arm (length of ratchet to center of head) etc. Solve for F, force. Easy.
Someone here I'm sure can calculate it.
Well, if it's true, I might not want to sink that many dollars into a 1/2 drive ratchet, let alone a breaker bar, that won't spring back to proper form after the bar is used to the max end or a little more of its designed torque usage. I believe the min std for a 1/2 drive bar is 450 ft lbs. So if it deforms when it shouldn't I would pick a different tool.
you are overthinking this. 1/2 ratchets broken by hand only are pretty rare. put a cylindrical torque amplifier (pipe) on it and things may be different. just to be safe, get a 30 inch breaker. the hf is on sale for 10 bucks right now. northern tool has a similar one at about 30 bucks and various other places have similar offerings at varying prices.
at 10 bucks the hf is a great value and has proven to be pretty reliable. at 10 bucks does it really matter. you aren't out much and you may be surprised how handy it is.
i often use one even when i don't need all of the force. why struggle with a shorter ratchet when a slight tug with a 30 inch breaker gets stuff moving.
FuzzyTiger
Well-known member
How do you bend the handle which is the strongest part of the ratchet without having something else break first? You'd have to be using it as a pry bar?
The square drive or other parts would most likely give long before the handle did anything more than flex.
The square drive or other parts would most likely give long before the handle did anything more than flex.
d.mcfarland
Well-known member
This.
Flex is one thing, but a bent handle is only caused by an overly large cheater pipe being misused.
seagullplayer
Well-known member
Well I can't, so I'm not too worried...
richfinn
Well-known member
if it has a warranty for manufacturer defects, whats the issue??
It's either defective/user abuse/bullsh*t (from somebody hating on that particular brand)
I personally don't buy tool truck stuff anymore as the warranty doesn't matter and I wouldn't have ever bought that brand, but if he works in an auto repair shop, not really a problem
nbpt100
Well-known member
This is so weird you have to understand the context of the original post. Was he boasting about how strong he is? Was he disappointed in the ratchet deforming? When he said Deform does he mean plastically yield, or is he observing deflection and concerned about it. Or does he really mean something else which he does not know how to explain? Is he being inflammatory because he has grudge with Matco? Could be anything and not worth worry about.
A manufacturing defect is always possible but one that would allow elastic deformation is highly unlikely(winning mega Bucks is easier). As one astute member pointed out there are other parts of the tool that should fail before well before the handle.
Understanding Context is everything!
A manufacturing defect is always possible but one that would allow elastic deformation is highly unlikely(winning mega Bucks is easier). As one astute member pointed out there are other parts of the tool that should fail before well before the handle.
Understanding Context is everything!
Specifically he said it was permanent plastic deformation, and he was disappointed it bent, considering the brand of the tool. He was not boasting in any way, he was pissed that he could ruin a 1/2 Metco breaker bar without (apparently) abusing it. It's confusing for sure.
measuredtwice
Well-known member
XxToolAholicxX
Well-known member
Very possible if you are He-Man..
tool_scrounge
Well-known member
Ok... having a few minutes at breakfast I calculated the max torque you could put on a Snapon SN24B breaker bar (1/2" drive, 24" long) before it would yield at the outer surface. The bar has an OD of 0.585". I used a tensile yield strength of 230,000 psi as mentioned in their patent 4322247, which also falls within the range of 31CrV2 (EN steel number 1.2208) tool steel which does get used for making hand tools. The maximum torque calculates to yield at the outer surface is 753 ft-lbs. Center of handle to the edge of the neck is 19.5". So you could put 463 lbs on it by hand before it yielded. Please note it will take a bit higher torque to yield enough of the cross section to actual show a visible permanent bend in the breaker bar.
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n8n
Well-known member
I haven't broken a ratchet, but I did find a Williams Superratchet in the recycling at my friend's shop once - the ratchet mechanism was broken, as you'd expect.
Somewhere in my pile of tools there is a 1/2" breaker bar from the parts store (Performance Tool maybe? I don't remember) that I tweaked trying to get an anode out of an old water heater. It didn't twist the drive off, what happened was that it tweaked it so that the drive no longer pivoted smoothly in the handle - so it was the actual handle part that bent, but at the drive end, where it's thinnest. I ended up buying a 3/4" breaker and that one socket to get the job done. Now I have a 3/4" drive socket set in my storage locker, but only SAE (off Craigslist for $50)
I did shear off a drive once, it was helping a coworker change a tire and I want to say it was on a short no-name extension. Probably 3/8" too not 1/2".
nbpt100
Well-known member
A few days ago I had to remove the rear wheels off of a friends car which gets serviced in a commercial garage. We were going to replace the rear shocks. My battery impact would not move the lugs. Like many shops they impact the lugs on way too tight. I used my cheap Cal Hawk 1/2 inch breaker with a 3 foot pipe. They all came off with a loud crack. The pin for the swivel head of the breaker did became loose. Something moved and did not spring back. but that was with a 3 foot pipe on it and a lot of force on the end.
I later had to use that same pipe on my 1/2 drive Craftsman old style USA ratchet to free one shock bolt. I thought I was going to break the mechanism, but no, it held up. Did it deflect, I would bet it sure did. Did any part of the handle deform plastically? NO! The ratchet is fine. It was actually a pretty impressive performance.
I later had to use that same pipe on my 1/2 drive Craftsman old style USA ratchet to free one shock bolt. I thought I was going to break the mechanism, but no, it held up. Did it deflect, I would bet it sure did. Did any part of the handle deform plastically? NO! The ratchet is fine. It was actually a pretty impressive performance.