Ratchet Modifications, Lower Spring Constant?

[YoshiMoshi3]

Has anyone on here ever tried modifying their ratchets to use springs with a lower spring constant? For like the ratchet design above, what would the effect be if you just simply used conical tower compression springs, same dimensions, but a signficantly lower spring constant? I assume the backdrag would go down tremendously?

 

[Ohio Andy]

Me no...

I have read here about people modifying spring that lightens the spring tension (I think shorten then stretch a little)... I think it was SK USA

Them again, my addled brain could be misremembering

 

[Etchase]

It would reduce the backdrag. It would also make engagement less assured. Those Proto’s have very low backdrag and have very good engagement. Not all manufactures were that careful with their design.

 

[AEAdam]

You’d lose strength, increase the chance of slipping, skipping, & increase wear. Bad idea.

polishing the gear teeth would be the better idea.

 

[milky2k]

I "modified" a Duralast 100 position 1/2 ratchet to reduce backdrag. The ratchet is Apex/Gearwrench made with dual offset pawls so you get 100 positions out of a 50 tooth gear. I just removed the springs holding the pawls and fully compressed them about 150-200 times or so. This made it feel like the ratchet had been broken in and decreased backdrag significantly and has become a favorite ratchet to use. I wish I had something to measure the before and after. I did consider that I may ruin the spring but I figured it was lifetime warranty from Autozone so I would just exchange it if it didn't work out, but it did, so I am happy about that. I have read that some people break in a ratchet by spinning the gear with a drill. I don't think that's a great idea since the spring is only compressed a small amount to get to the next tooth, it doesn't loosen up as much compared to fully compressing it. So long story short, you don't have to replace the spring to get lower backdrag, just manually compress them to feel broken in.

 

[mjdarg]

I clipped the spring in my Icon split beam torque wrench to reduce the backdrag a bit. I actually went a little too far and it started skipping. I was able to stretch it out and get it feeling pretty good.

 

[Etchase]

Springs are funny, if you cut them shorter they are stiffer for the same change in length. Thicker wire, less loops, shorter springs are stiffer.

These are fun to experiment with.

https://a.co/d/08sQoobx

https://a.co/d/029lFr27

 

[Ike Carlson]

I have a few ratchets in each size, and none of them have too much back drag. How much does yours have if it is an issue?

 

[Ohio Andy]

I have a few ratchets in each size, and none of them have too much back drag. How much does yours have if it is an issue?

And what specific ratchet

 

[Ike Carlson]

The spring constant doesn’t matter, just the load. Try replacing with ballpoint springs and see what happens.

 

[Marlin]

Delete

 

[Ike Carlson]

Go too light and you end up with a ratchet that doesn't ratchet on fasteners without much drag.

I’m pretty sure that’s from too much spring load.

 

[Marlin]

I’m pretty sure that’s from too much spring load.

Yes, my bad. I was thinking of the spring load in powered ratchets. I deleted it but you were too quick for me.

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

The spring constant doesn’t matter, just the load. Try replacing with ballpoint springs and see what happens.

Ball point springs, I thought they were conical tower compression springs?

 

[Ike Carlson]

Ball point springs, I thought they were conical tower compression springs?

Depends on the ratchet. Most I have seen have been straight.

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

Depends on the ratchet. Most I have seen have been straight.

For which design

 

[Ike Carlson]

For which design

O
\/

The o is the wheel and the slashes are the pawls the selector disengages one pawl so the other can grab.

 

[mreisner]

Before Snap-on came up with the Revised overhaul kit for the Cynergy ratchets I slightly shortened the spring for the pawls. That and a combination of a lighter lubricant made a world of difference in back drag. The new kit is a redesigned spring slightly shorter and less tension. I haven't noticed any problems with skipping or weakness with the ones that I did that I haven't changed the kit yet and I've put some pretty strong effort on them.

 

[Ohio Andy]

Before Snap-on came up with the Revised overhaul kit for the Cynergy ratchets I slightly shortened the spring for the pawls. That and a combination of a lighter lubricant made a world of difference in back drag. The new kit is a redesigned spring slightly shorter and less tension. I haven't noticed any problems with skipping or weakness with the ones that I did that I haven't changed the kit yet and I've put some pretty strong effort on them.

Interesting, maybe I should try that

 

[Ike Carlson]

I was just having almost the same discussion in a firearm forum about hammer/striker springs. Someone said shortening a spring wouldn’t work because the rate would go up. What they failed to realize, or maybe accept, was the preload changes when you shorten the spring, so the rate really doesn’t even matter.

 

[YoshiMoshi3]

O
\/

The o is the wheel and the slashes are the pawls the selector disengages one pawl so the other can grab.

I thought the springs in that design were conical tower compression springs?

 

[Ike Carlson]

I thought the springs in that design were conical tower compression springs?

Not that I have seen. Mine are all normal springs.

 

[Etchase]

Not that I have seen. Mine are all normal springs.

I thought the springs in that design were conical tower compression springs?

All the Proto’s, Armstrong, mitaloy, Steelman, Tomars, and innumerable non-branded Japanese ratchets use conical springs that I have encountered. I have never seen one with straight springs, I would like to see an example of one, or at least get a brand name so I can buy one. It would be very interesting.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Sorry, but the ratchets I bought work because it worked, Sure, could I maybe improve it 5% but why? It;s not a space rocket - it's a basic hand tool. If I want it to be somehow better, well, then go ahead, but in all reality are you talking about a 80 tooth ratchet or a new paradigm of reality?

If I need more than my 80 or 64 or 32 tooth rathcet, I am really confused why, as my straight wrenches do OK. I get you need rahcets, but to what end do yu need a 600 tooth rachet? Because, seriously, there is an end to what works and what is just another gizmo...

 

[AEAdam]

Sorry, but the ratchets I bought work because it worked, Sure, could I maybe improve it 5% but why? It;s not a space rocket - it's a basic hand tool. If I want it to be somehow better, well, then go ahead, but in all reality are you talking about a 80 tooth ratchet or a new paradigm of reality?

If I need more than my 80 or 64 or 32 tooth rathcet, I am really confused why, as my straight wrenches do OK. I get you need rahcets, but to what end do yu need a 600 tooth rachet? Because, seriously, there is an end to what works and what is just another gizmo...

Snap on's Dual 80 is special not because it was the lowest back drag or highest tooth count or even the strongest (tho it may have been when it came out). Dual 80 was special because it was generally good at everything. And they "wear in" and become better with age.

No amount of spring fiddling will improve a dual 80 or likely any of the myriad of dual pawl or stacked pawl ratchets made in Taiwan.

The trick to getting lower back drag is switching to a 3/8" drive in a 1/4" body type ratchets. Additional benefit of that is the lower polar moment of inertia associated with lower mass, smaller ratchets, that enables them to swing faster.

Again, polishing the teeth is completely doable and would actually lower back drag and improve the tool. The sort of polishing necessary isn't cost effective for a production line. But hint hint, if you could work out a methodology, I think there would be a market for "super polished" ratchet repair kits. I'd sell the kits with "special" grease. The trick is you can't simply put the gears in a tumbler. You actually have to touch the teeth somehow. This is the way!