I am sure the correct answer is Snapon but I needed to ask anyways. I am just a shade tree mx. Most of my tools are Craftsman but I seem to have the tool itch lately. I would like a different 1/2 ratchet. The craftsman that I have is the cheap one. Should I invest the $100.00 into snapon or is the Armstrong or Williams decent stuff at over half the cost.
Ratchets/snapon,armstrong,Williams
- Thread starter crushr
- Start date
MoToys
Well-known member
The so 1/2 drive rat is a dream to use, not sure if the Williams will be the same product(may be.). Stay away from armstrong, I got a 3/8 Armstrong brand new that skipped, 2 replacements did the same thing. Finally I opened it up and made adjustments to the pawl so it would work. Needless to say I never pick that ratchet to use.
Deafautotech
Well-known member
armstrong are very same with Matco 88 teeth... but just difference is handle...
i has use craftsman, snap on, matco, mac, and armstrong.... snap on are very nice to use daily but it is not MUST to have one unless you can find better deal...
i has been use armstrong at my work, it is work good even gearwrench ratchet are similar with armstrong and matco but just different body and SAME mechaical drive...
i has use craftsman, snap on, matco, mac, and armstrong.... snap on are very nice to use daily but it is not MUST to have one unless you can find better deal...
i has been use armstrong at my work, it is work good even gearwrench ratchet are similar with armstrong and matco but just different body and SAME mechaical drive...
I'm not sure what went wrong with the previous posters experience, but Armstrong does make some excellent ratchets. For their price points, they are very competitive. I doubt you'd be disappointed. Internally I believe they are generally the same as Matco's, which some argue are even better than Snap-On's.
I've purchased hundreds and have had excellent feedback. Although I'm personally partial to the soft grip models from Snap-On/Matco, simply for the ergonomics.
I've purchased hundreds and have had excellent feedback. Although I'm personally partial to the soft grip models from Snap-On/Matco, simply for the ergonomics.
Last edited:
Bahco is a snap on dual80 at a faction of the cost
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135707
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135707
MoToys
Well-known member
Armstrong ratchets are not 88 tooth matco. It's a low tooth count pos. I'd rather use a 36 tooth so.
back2class
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
- Messages
- 2,723
Who needs high tooth count for 1/2 ratchets. Different too entirely from 3/8 units. My favorite is a big long handle proto 1/2. Absolute beast I can jump up and down on. I have had many 1/2 ratchets including a few Snap-On. I would rank the snap-on's in the middle of the pack. My go to regular length 1/2 ratchet and the one I kept is an older Husky (made by New Brittain) Decent tooth count, not to huge head, nice knurled handle and stronger guts then the thick 5/8 handle. I have not had a dual 80 1/2 snap-on but if it is like the 3/8 it's a nice ratchet but nothing special. To me a 1/2 ratchet is less of a precision tool and more of a no nonsrnse get er done kinda tool. I definately want knurling, strong design and in general.....function. I have a bunch on Craftsman ones of just about every design and vintage in 1/2 and none are very confidence inspiring. As far as current production if you want an exact replacement....I would have recomended Armstrong....nice design and I have been impressed with the ones I have had.
depends what model you are talking about? The newer armstrong and matco have the same 88 tooth guts, even the heads look the same.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130377
Well, one reason to get a high tooth count 1/2" ratchet is because with a longer ratchet in a tight spot, you want a ratchet with a low swing arc...
Personally I am hooked on Dual80s. Havent tried a Matco88 but I am sure it is just as smooth.
I avoided buying one of the high tooth count 1/2's for a long time in favor of my SO 36's until just recently when I bought a dual 80, now I want to add more of them and relegate my 36's to the garage box. They are amazing, I looked at the matco, but the price was higher and I don't care for the handle shape or general aesthetics of the matco, that big ugly eagle is gaudy. For the record I buy all my ratchets with plain handles as I don't like the comfort grips.
MoToys
Well-known member
I was not aware of the maxx version, it is the other one I have had experience with.
if you are looking for a ratchet that is longer than 10'' get the Dual80. it is so much nicer to use in places where you have very little space but need a lot of reach. 10'' standard ratchets can be either fine or coarse tooth. i've got a SO and a MAC 10'' ratchet. I like the feel of the low tooth count better, but the SO is nicer for situations requiring low drag and swing arc. i would recommend the Dual80 to you since you already have a 36 tooth Cman.
kippieland
Well-known member
I soundl like a broken record...Look for used. I got a Williams 36 1/2 for $16 bucks...in great shape a works like a charm. Smoother the my RP cman. You can find used SO and Matco also for great prices on Ebay. I have found a SO f80, matco 88..short and long, the Williams, and some other nice stuff for great prices. I am a DIY'er I can't see buying SO stuff when there are great used items. If you HAVE to have new, then I would suggest SK, Williams, Armstrong, and Proto.
MoToys: You had problems with the 11-972...which I learning from the board that most people have similar problems. It is Armstrong cheaper ratchet. The 88 tooth is the 11-992, which is the same as the Matco 88. It is VERY poplur here since Stephen did a fanatastic reveiw. They both look the same but are very different. You can buy the replacement for the 11-992 that will fit into your 11-1972. They really are bad ***! I have a 36 tooth Matco that I am going to put a kit in it...They have it at Amazon for $16.
MoToys: You had problems with the 11-972...which I learning from the board that most people have similar problems. It is Armstrong cheaper ratchet. The 88 tooth is the 11-992, which is the same as the Matco 88. It is VERY poplur here since Stephen did a fanatastic reveiw. They both look the same but are very different. You can buy the replacement for the 11-992 that will fit into your 11-1972. They really are bad ***! I have a 36 tooth Matco that I am going to put a kit in it...They have it at Amazon for $16.
Last edited:
GoBlue
Well-known member
Just get the Snap on and be done with it.
plinker
Well-known member
Good deal, you'll like them.
I have a long handle Williams in 1/2 drive. Same internals as the Snap-on "936" series ratchets. I really like it.
I also have a long & short handle 36 tooth Armstrongs in 1/2 drive, The best part on them is the shape of the handle. Very comfortable. I have had issues with the ratchet mechansiam in the 3/8 drive 36 tooth Armstrong, no issues yet in the 1/2 drive.
FYI - I have a 1/2" Williams ratchet as well, and just to let you know, as long as it's a Williams S-52EHA, the internals are the same as the older Snap On series 900 ratchets. The $10.00 replacement kit from Snap On has the exact same internals. I think I've reads that the 1/4" and 3/8" USA made Williams ratchets use older Snap On internals as well, though I can't provide details as I don't have Williams ratchets in those sizes.
Nonetheless, in the event that you need replacement parts, Snap On is easier to deal with than their Williams subsidiary; for the 1/2" ratchet, I called Williams customer service, where the replacement parts kit was around $15 and they wanted to charge me shipping. Snap On is $10, free shipping.
More details on the similarity between Snap On and Williams ratchets here:
Sorry, I tried to post the link, but this forum doesn't allow it for some reason. Google "garage gazette a tale of two ratchets" if you're interested.
Enjoy your new ratchets, hope this information is useful.
Last edited:
The MaXX has been around for awhile but just recently moved from 60 to 88 teeth.
MoToys
Well-known member
Linky please.
4x4gearhead
Well-known member
I would go with either the snap on or the williams. I personally dont like teardrop ratchets with the snap ring and cover. I prefer a sealed head ratchet like a snap on/Mac/Proto.
flintsghost
Well-known member
I have owned an awful lot of 3/8" and 1/4" ratchets in the past and my old SV71A is the only 1/2" that has gotten much use from me. I do have a completely sealed S80 I picked up used that is virtually new and I have an older SF720 which is basically a 3/8" ratchet body with a 1/2" drive. All my years of experience with Snap On has taught me that it's easier to get something replaced or repaired with them and their stuff works. It's more expensive but they stand behind it 100%. If I have any problem I can call my dealer and even go by his house and drop something off and he'll take care of it on the spot if he has the replacement or get it ordered if he doesn't. I'm on my third Snap On man since 1972 and they are all that way in my experience. The MAC man that used to come by the shop where I was temporarily working for a while was the same way. So I would always say deal with Snap On or MAC. I imagine Matco and Cornwell are the same way but never worked where either had a route. As far as cost is concerned, you can find pretty good deals on ratchets from your choice of maker on this forum or on Ebay.
alan camby
Well-known member
If you are working in a dealer or business that has a truck stop by i believe this is 100% true. Since i have left the dealer this service is not as convenient.
I have had a broken Mac socket in my box for a few years, need mail it to Mac. don't know any truck guys to call and dought they want to stop by my house for warranty claims.
Did have a good experience warranting a Armstrong ratchet with Fastenal. Think Napa might also do this.
mrbreezeet1
Banned
IMO the Williams is also very nice.
Said to be the same as the older Snap On.
I have this one, and it is very nice. It has become my "go to" 1/2: drive ratchet.
http://www.toolsdelivered.com/Willi...ols-1-2-Inch-Drive-Chrome-Ratchet-Drive-Tools
I just did a ton of research on ratchets.
If I were you, I'd go with one of these 2 options:
Coarse Tooth: Williams - their 36 tooth is identical to the old snap-on F936/S936 for around $30-$38 shipped. (toolsdelivered.com had the best price).
Fine Tooth: If you don't mind the ugly orange handle, the Bahco 7750 is exactly the same as the snap-on F80 for $40 shipped. That armstrong maxx 88 also looks like a decent option, but seems to be in the $50 range.
I decided to go coarse tooth as I've heard they are a little stronger, skip less, etc. For 1/2" coarse tooth is a no brainer. For 1/4 or 3/8 you might want the fine tooth. I figured I didn't need it and just saved myself $10-$15.
If I were you, I'd go with one of these 2 options:
Coarse Tooth: Williams - their 36 tooth is identical to the old snap-on F936/S936 for around $30-$38 shipped. (toolsdelivered.com had the best price).
Fine Tooth: If you don't mind the ugly orange handle, the Bahco 7750 is exactly the same as the snap-on F80 for $40 shipped. That armstrong maxx 88 also looks like a decent option, but seems to be in the $50 range.
I decided to go coarse tooth as I've heard they are a little stronger, skip less, etc. For 1/2" coarse tooth is a no brainer. For 1/4 or 3/8 you might want the fine tooth. I figured I didn't need it and just saved myself $10-$15.
kippieland
Well-known member
Can find the armstrong here for $34 plus shipping. I know another guy on the thread got it a little cheap (not much though) at a different site.
http://weldwarehouse.securesites.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?::1:WLDWH:1:number=11-992
http://weldwarehouse.securesites.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?::1:WLDWH:1:number=11-992
Penny88
Active member
Well I have a armstrong 12-972 and that things is tuff dosn't see much use anymore. I have some other 36tooth armstrongs that have never given me any problems maybe this is because there older?
MiamiTelcoTech
New member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2015
- Messages
- 1
Okies im going to put my 2 cents in.
The old argument of which ratchet is better is a RELATIVE argument. Which ratchet is better at what ?
You want to break bolts or loosen rusty ones ? Use a low tooth ratchet. You want speed and low swing arc? Use a high tooth ratchet.
The Snap~on williams enclosed is 36 tooth. The new craftsman premium us 80 tooth. The middle of the line craftsman is 60 tooth. The armstrong or Matco is 84 or 88 tooth.
No matter how good or what brand, high tooth ratchets have a high probabilty of slippage and breakage, with high tension or torque. Because face it folks, theres just less metal to hold that tension. Its the same disc holding much more teeth. Hence the teeth are made smaller.
I have a company supplied Proto 30 tooth ratchet, that wont break. Before you ask i work in manholes on the beach with mangrove gas ( i can post pictures what it does to zinc covered steel ) and seawater. All i do is dump some kind of oil on it afterwards.
Does it **** for swing arc, and **** for tight spots ? Yes, so i break and loosen bolts with it then switch to snap-on or craftsman or gearwrench or whatever.
If this seems tedious to some use a middle tooth ratchet. 45-70 tooth. That probably give you the best of both worlds.
The old argument of which ratchet is better is a RELATIVE argument. Which ratchet is better at what ?
You want to break bolts or loosen rusty ones ? Use a low tooth ratchet. You want speed and low swing arc? Use a high tooth ratchet.
The Snap~on williams enclosed is 36 tooth. The new craftsman premium us 80 tooth. The middle of the line craftsman is 60 tooth. The armstrong or Matco is 84 or 88 tooth.
No matter how good or what brand, high tooth ratchets have a high probabilty of slippage and breakage, with high tension or torque. Because face it folks, theres just less metal to hold that tension. Its the same disc holding much more teeth. Hence the teeth are made smaller.
I have a company supplied Proto 30 tooth ratchet, that wont break. Before you ask i work in manholes on the beach with mangrove gas ( i can post pictures what it does to zinc covered steel ) and seawater. All i do is dump some kind of oil on it afterwards.
Does it **** for swing arc, and **** for tight spots ? Yes, so i break and loosen bolts with it then switch to snap-on or craftsman or gearwrench or whatever.
If this seems tedious to some use a middle tooth ratchet. 45-70 tooth. That probably give you the best of both worlds.
Attachments
while a lot of what you say is true, your comments about tooth size, amount of material in the pawls and so on are not really correct.
the proto is a great design, no question there but if you open it up and look, the pawl has only two teeth in contact over a very small area. most newer ratchets have a very large pawl with many teeth in contact. often 2-4 times the contact area of the proto. they also have an arc that matches the contour of the gear rather than the flat pawl with very little contact area.
i have not looked up the specs to back it up but i venture to say almost every modern ratchet from a reputable mfg had comparable if not better torques specs than the classic proto.
the theory that low tooth count=stronger is more of a myth than reality now.