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rate my lighting plan

brianch

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
6
Standard 2 Car SidexSide Bays.
Wall and Ceiling Painted Primer White
Race Deck Flooring to come (all white?)
Steel Garage Door is also white.

Application: Pro Auto Detailing. Need it to be bright. Very bright. Almost paint booth bright.

Whats will probably stay:
one 200watt equiv compact fluorescent on one side
one 4ft 4xT8 fixture on the other side.

What I will probably buy:
Two of THESE on the ceiling

Four of THESE (one in each top corner)

That is 28 x 4ft 54W T5HO bulbs (5000k). Bout 1500watts of lighting and a claimed 137k of lumens.

You think it is enough? It sounds like its more than enough but I wouldnt know. Also thinking about painting over the primer in a gloss white to reflect more light. I heard RaceDeck also sells a glossy version of the flooring. Do they scuff easily? Anyone have the gloss version want to comment on durability of the gloss coating?

Thanks!
 
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2ManyProjects

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Jul 18, 2013
Messages
757
Subject: rate my lighting plan
D-
And I'm being generous.

(Well, you asked...)

Standard 2 Car SidexSide Bays.

Which at least implies a typical 9-10 foot ceiling, max.

Wall and Ceiling Painted Primer White

Good.

Race Deck Flooring to come (all white?)

All-white RaceDeck will start to look shabby almost instantly; but it's your call.

Steel Garage Door is also white.

OK, also good. Make sure that it is also well-insulated (personally, I'd go with no less than two-inch rigid foam) so you can work in the Winter, and has painted steel on the INSIDE as well as outside (for durability).

Application: Pro Auto Detailing. Need it to be bright. Very bright. Almost paint booth bright.

I have to question that assumption.

Yes, you need GOOD lighting, and you particularly need to light up the WHOLE car you're working on, including areas which "normally" live in deep shadow (such as the rocker panels and wheel wells, for example). But that is not the same thing as over-the-top "brightness", per se.

Whats will probably stay:
one 200watt equiv compact fluorescent on one side

Probably a mistake. Any CFL represents a small "point source" of illumination; and a high-power CFL only exaggerates that issue. This is generally the exact opposite of what you REALLY need, which is even well-distributed illumination EVERYWHERE, without "hot spots" or dim/shadowy areas.

one 4ft 4xT8 fixture on the other side.

Less "bad" than the CFL, but still far from great. Better to "recycle" this for over your workbench, or similar.

What I will probably buy:
Two of THESE on the ceiling

HUGE mistake.

Go back to what I said above about the CFL. The same basic principle applies here. The very LAST thing you need in a typical residential garage (or equivalent) with a low-ish ceiling is a "High Bay" fixture, especially one with so much raw output as six F54T5HO tubes would produce.

Four of THESE (one in each top corner)

Also a mistake, albeit not quite as egregious one as the previous selection

That is 28 x 4ft 54W T5HO bulbs (5000k). Bout 1500watts of lighting and a claimed 137k of lumens.

I got 140,000, based on 5,000 initial lumens per tube. But no matter; it's still WAAAAAAY off-target.

You think it is enough? It sounds like its more than enough but I wouldnt know.

It's much TOO much, even considering your (questionable, at best) assumption about needing exceptionally high brightness. You never quoted the dimensions of this garage; but a typical two-car residential garage is about 400 ft.^2, maybe 500 ft.^2 if you're really lucky. Taking even the latter figure, you're looking at roughly 275-280 lumens/ft.^2, on average. That's nearly three times the usual recommendation for a "well-lit" garage, suitable for detailed work.

Worse, all that light is concentrated into FAR too few sources, and mostly of the wrong type (particularly in terms their photometrics), at that. So that "average" illumination level will actually be very unevenly distributed, with some areas much brighter than others. This problem is further exacerbated by your proposed placement: You're concentrating all the light sources overhead (much of it DIRECTLY overhead), so the vehicles themselves will create huge shadows in exactly the wrong places, such as the aforementioned rocker panels and wheel wells.

Also thinking about painting over the primer in a gloss white to reflect more light.

Gloss or Semi-Gloss paint will be somewhat easier to keep clean than Flat paint or primer. So this is not a horrible idea; but it won't make a significant difference from a lighting standpoint.

I heard RaceDeck also sells a glossy version of the flooring. Do they scuff easily? Anyone have the gloss version want to comment on durability of the gloss coating?

No first-hand experience; but again, if you're expecting this to significantly impact your lighting, you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

BHR4CE1

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Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
952
Location
Long Beach, CA
I do some very minor detailing (mostly just spraying down the dust every few days) in my garage (Just in between the REAL detailing done by the pros that come over to keep my cars looking great) and I have LOTS of overhead lighting. It seems to be more than enough light for what I do, but the professionals that come to my place to do all my cars always bring these huge LED's that they move around. Might be worth looking into. You can see the light I'm talking about in some of the pics from the last time they were here (Nov 2013). https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152051778261133.1073742157.157160866132&type=1
 
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brianch

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
6
Thanks for the honest opinion! I was actually about to order 4 more 6 tube T5HO fixtures to add to the ceiling lol!
I'm just worried it wont be bright enough, guess I should probably hold back on that one.

I was hoping the all white everything would bounce the light around and soften the effect.

The only way I can think of getting a bit more even coverage is to have the bulbs run vertical all along the garage on the walls. The reason I can't do this is because of all the cabinets, wall mounted pressure washer, extension cords, tables, etc I have along the outside. I have no choice but to put the lights higher up. I will be angling all the lights towards the car at a close to 45 degree angle when possible. I also managed to find someone locally selling some reflectors for 8 foot fixtures that I'm going to use and modify to aim the lights a bit.

I am worried about the lighting not being very even. And since I can only mount them on the ceiling or near the top of the walls.. The only way I can think of by making sure the lights are even is to literally cover the ceiling with lights. Which is why I thought about adding 4 more 6 tube fixtures to each corner of the ceiling. This way the 2 car ceiling will likely have fixtures almost beside each other.

I'm not too worried about it being too bright. The more light the merrier. The shop that I use to work in had over 40 tubes of T5HO bulbs in a 1 car bay as an inspection center.

I do some very minor detailing (mostly just spraying down the dust every few days) in my garage (Just in between the REAL detailing done by the pros that come over to keep my cars looking great) and I have LOTS of overhead lighting. It seems to be more than enough light for what I do, but the professionals that come to my place to do all my cars always bring these huge LED's that they move around. Might be worth looking into. You can see the light I'm talking about in some of the pics from the last time they were here (Nov 2013). https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152051778261133.1073742157.157160866132&type=1

Yep I have my own arsenal of portable lights as well. Both halogen and LED and even xenon. I also use hand held swirl finders as well as an assortment of headlamps.

What kind of lighting do you have in your garage on the ceiling?

Here is a good example of a inspection bay that is all white.
http://autoobsessed.com/gallery-clean-room.html

I think I'm going to go ahead with the race deck white flooring. I clean my floors daily (vacuum, mop, scrub, dry)
 
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JoeFin

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Sep 13, 2013
Messages
717
Location
NorCal - where the Rednecks Race
Start by making a simple floor plan drawing of your shop including your lighting layout (complete with fixture types) and locations of work benches / inspection areas. I agree with 2many as the Highbay fixtures bookwise are not a good decision.

Paint Inspection should be 150-200 cdft but you wouldn't want or need that much all the time either
 

2ManyProjects

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Messages
757
Thanks for the honest opinion! I was actually about to order 4 more 6 tube T5HO fixtures to add to the ceiling lol!
I'm just worried it wont be bright enough, guess I should probably hold back on that one.

Ummmmmm... Yeah. :rolleyes2

I was hoping the all white everything would bounce the light around and soften the effect.

"All white everything" will help overall brightness; and to some minor extent, it will also help with dispersion & diffusion. But it still can't perform miracles. Light in the wrong place is still light in the wrong place; and making that "a TON of light in the wrong place" doesn't change that.

The only way I can think of getting a bit more even coverage is to have the bulbs run vertical all along the garage on the walls. The reason I can't do this is because of all the cabinets, wall mounted pressure washer, extension cords, tables, etc I have along the outside. I have no choice but to put the lights higher up.

That's probably not as much of a problem as you are imagining. If you put the RIGHT lights on/near the ceiling, and especially if you put them in the RIGHT places, they'll do a remarkably good job of lighting up what you NEED to light up, without inducing skin cancer in the process.

In addition, some form of portable lighting such as mentioned by "BHR4CE1" will go a long way toward filling in whatever "gaps" remain, and have the advantage of being easily repositionable for such tasks as checking for fine scratches & swirl marks by observing the reflection of the light source in the finish. If you're willing to put some money into this (and from your comment above that you were about to buy several more IBZ-654s "just because", I'm guessing you are), one good approach would be to build a small stand/cart to mount one of these:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-2-ft-White-LED-High-Bay-Light-IBH-11L-MV/203812710
6c03025b-1f9f-4883-84bd-441d389f7baf_1000.jpg


...facing more-or-less sideways, and preferably with some adjustability in terms of "tilt". Ideally, I'd probably also want the height to be somewhat adjustable, from about knee-height to about shoulder/head-height. But even without that last bit of refinement, it should work pretty well.

Or, for a LOT less money, even this $35 special:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_394366-40642-UT-1005_4294935637__?productId=3699574
017398801768.jpg


could go a long way toward solving the side-illumination problem. One of the neater features is that the entire top section (with it's own handle & feet) can be quickly disengaged from the tripod/stand via one hand-knob, and then placed on the floor for low-angle illumination. Kind of a "best of both worlds" thing. But, as always, high-output halogen bulbs **** up a TON of power and get REALLY hot; so it remains only an "if nothing else" solution.

I will be angling all the lights towards the car at a close to 45 degree angle when possible.

Probably not necessary. Again, with the RIGHT fixtures in the RIGHT places, the light WILL be dispersed widely enough to make such "aiming" a moot point.

I also managed to find someone locally selling some reflectors for 8 foot fixtures that I'm going to use and modify to aim the lights a bit.

Stay away from 8-foot fixtures. First, you don't need them. Second, they don't do anything that pairs of 4-foot fixtures won't do, except force you to mount them in non-ideal locations and reduce your potential switching flexibility.

I am worried about the lighting not being very even. And since I can only mount them on the ceiling or near the top of the walls.. The only way I can think of by making sure the lights are even is to literally cover the ceiling with lights.

Well, you're clearly being a bit paranoid about this. But ironically enough, despite reaching a bogus conclusion, the fundamental thinking process which led you there is actually NOT all that far off the mark. The point is, in a sense you DO indeed want to "cover the ceiling with lights", so to speak -- but I'm speaking FIGURATIVELY, not literally. Furthermore, you DO NOT need to use overkill-bright fixtures. Given your 10-foot ceiling, standard twin-tube F32T8-based "strip" lights, such as:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...rescent-Strip-Light-C-2-32-120-GESB/100543144
605b448d-ee09-419e-9720-65ab0b5b79b4_1000.jpg


will do the job just fine, when PROPERLY spaced. Or, for still more dispersion/diffusion, and at least some impact-protection, use "wrap"-type fixtures, such as:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-2-Light-Utility-Light-3348-2L32W-WRAP/100654395
92eeea00-35d4-4de6-9cd6-11e57dd051fc_300.jpg


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...hite-Fluorescent-Light-Fixture-3324/202192968
39000172-ebf4-4c9c-8544-fe78d1fd119c_300.jpg


http://www.lowes.com/pd_163697-337-WP232RLU_0__?productId=3181895
080083518647.jpg


http://www.lowes.com/pd_336745-13537-336745_0__?productId=3686312
037949005377.jpg


http://www.lowes.com/pd_384285-337-WP217RNKLLU_0__?productId=50077497
080083615506.jpg


Which is why I thought about adding 4 more 6 tube fixtures to each corner of the ceiling. This way the 2 car ceiling will likely have fixtures almost beside each other.

That would be GROSS overkill -- and probably not as effective as what I suggested above, despite being ridiculously over-bright.

I'm not too worried about it being too bright. The more light the merrier.

Up to a point, that's fine. As I've stated many times, as a general rule, it's really difficult to really have "too much" light; it's more usually a matter of not putting the light in the right places. But what you've been proposing is unquestionably in the "too much" category, regardless of placement.

The shop that I use to work in had over 40 tubes of T5HO bulbs in a 1 car bay as an inspection center.

That too is completely over the top, and would be approaching 1,000 lumens/ft.^2 for a "typical"-size single garage bay! Either those lights were HORRIDLY placed, or there were other issues in play.

Yep I have my own arsenal of portable lights as well. Both halogen and LED and even xenon. I also use hand held swirl finders as well as an assortment of headlamps.

I have a hard time imaging why you would need more than one GOOD portable/adjustable light, unless more than one person will be working at a time.

Start by making a simple floor plan drawing of your shop including your lighting layout (complete with fixture types) and locations of work benches / inspection areas.

Agreed. It's time to get at least some sort of specific layout worked out.

 
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brianch

Member
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Dec 16, 2013
Messages
6
Thanks again for the reply 2manyprojects!

Your replys are always thought inducing and informative.

I have a few of those halogen portable lights as well as LED portable lights (shop lights i guess) I've stopped using them after using adapting an LED headlamp and handheld lamps for the inspection phase.

When I am actually doing paint correction I actually work in the dark with nothing but a single light source. Either a portable light or my headlamp.

The only time I will have all the lights on are when I am doing the interior, final inspection of exterior to see if there are any smudges or dirt that happened to get on the car, presenting car to clients, and doing the photography.

I will have a separate switch for every fixture so I can control which lights I want on.

Again I look at this for a bit of inspiration
http://autoobsessed.com/gallery-clean-room.html

I will try to space them as evenly as possible on the roof to get an even coverage of light. There isn't much space to mount them on the walls so I have no choice but to mount them on the ceiling. I'll start with 4 fixtures and if that isn't enough I'll just add more.

I actually like the idea of mounting a fixture on some kind of stand.. I could probably fab up my own stand and mount a 4 light T8 or T5 fixture on with no reflectors. That would aid alot when cleaning interiors (especially black interiors)
 
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