Re-epoxy expoxy?

[MOPAULY]

I want to re-coat my floors this spring; the original owner apparently used an epoxy that is now about 9 years old and really showing wear. What do I need to do to the existing to recover it? Anyone have recommendations on an epoxy brand to use? The garage is about 30 x 30, poured as 4 separate slabs, so i'll probably do each slab individually, as things will have to be moved before each section could be done.

 

[regguy1]

If the original floor is not delaminating from the concrete you can probably sand it and put the new epoxy over it. If it's coming up you'll need to grind it off and do the prep on bare concrete.

Here's my installation thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66867

See the floor after 18 months in the video link below

 

[MOPAULY]

it's actually in pretty good shape, just very beat up...sanding as in using a machine, or just a light scuff with some rough grit to give the new coat something to grip to?

 

[47ford - 1.5ton]

it's actually in pretty good shape, just very beat up...sanding as in using a machine, or just a light scuff with some rough grit to give the new coat something to grip to?

Rent an EDCO grinding machine...

In order for epoxy to properly set and adhere, it needs the open pores of the concrete....

Simply scuffing up epoxy that is currently down will well... be a complete waste of hundreds of dollars..... (As there is no 'porosity' to epoxy and scuffing it will only yield for 'valleys' for the new epoxy to hold onto... which can be simply lifed up and out..... the concrete has little caves of porosity that will run sideways, circles, knots, up, down all over.... these are then filled with the new epoxy which actually kind of 'ties it down' or holds it to the floor securely.)


But.. your wallet, your party, ... if you want to be where your at now in 3-6 months again.... you can do that too...

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

If your floor is "down tight". You do not need to remove it. Screen it (light sand to remove any gloss), then solvent wipe and re-coat using another two part epoxy.

If you use a 100% solids coating you should not have any compatibility issues.

This is a common procedure.

 

[MOPAULY]

Yeah that was my overall fear, getting the prep right so I don't piss away $$$ of coating.

I was initially thinking of a drywall sander on a pole with rough paper to scuff it, but can rent a machine to do the job if necessary, I just want it to last.

Scotty, what is the difference with the amount of solids in the epoxy?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Yeah that was my overall fear, getting the prep right so I don't piss away $$$ of coating.

I was initially thinking of a drywall sander on a pole with rough paper to scuff it, but can rent a machine to do the job if necessary, I just want it to last.

Scotty, what is the difference with the amount of solids in the epoxy?

We want to make sure you don't have a reactivity problem.
Some epoxies use a solvent vehicle, this could make the base product react.
Perhaps, you are really looking at a urethane top-coat over epoxy, another potential reaction issue.

The 100% solids epoxy is typically not going to react with the base coating even if it is a urethane.

When a customer asks us to re-coat over a suspect urethane sealer or coating we always recommend a solids base coat, just in case.
Frankly, we know of a few manufacturers who make urethanes that can't be re-coated with the same exact material, unless it is done immediately.

 

[MOPAULY]

OK. I think I'll look at renting a floor sander for this and figure out what colors I want to use; do you have any samples you can send?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

OK. I think I'll look at renting a floor sander for this and figure out what colors I want to use; do you have any samples you can send?

Sure, email your mailing address to:
[email protected]

 

[kyles974]

Rent an EDCO grinding machine...

In order for epoxy to properly set and adhere, it needs the open pores of the concrete....

Simply scuffing up epoxy that is currently down will well... be a complete waste of hundreds of dollars..... (As there is no 'porosity' to epoxy and scuffing it will only yield for 'valleys' for the new epoxy to hold onto... which can be simply lifed up and out..... the concrete has little caves of porosity that will run sideways, circles, knots, up, down all over.... these are then filled with the new epoxy which actually kind of 'ties it down' or holds it to the floor securely.)


But.. your wallet, your party, ... if you want to be where your at now in 3-6 months again.... you can do that too...

that's the craziest thing I have read here in the last year and a half reasearching epoxy flooring!
......and let me say, I've read hundreds of post here on epoxy.



and @ Legacy, nice blog here:
http://legacyindustrial.blogspot.com/

 

[47ford - 1.5ton]

that's the craziest thing I have read here in the last year and a half reasearching epoxy flooring!
......and let me say, I've read hundreds of post here on epoxy.



and @ Legacy, nice blog here:
http://legacyindustrial.blogspot.com/

Keep reading then vs. being a post *****....

I guess science confuses some people? (You do know epoxy isn't porous right?.. you know what 'etching' really does right?) (No really google concrete pores and you might find you just shoved your own foot)

Also.. if you'd like you can read the simple 'HOW TO' in regards to Epoxy Prep....

http://www.squidoo.com/epoxyfloorprep

 

[kyles974]

Keep reading then vs. being a post *****....

I guess science confuses some people? (You do know epoxy isn't porous right?.. you know what 'etching' really does right?) (No really google concrete pores and you might find you just shoved your own foot)

Also.. if you'd like you can read the simple 'HOW TO' in regards to Epoxy Prep....

http://www.squidoo.com/epoxyfloorprep

Post *****,



I was just saying, and I'll say it again, that's the craziest thing I have read here in the last year and a half reasearching epoxy flooring!
I have not read that. BUT, for you to come back and say I'm being a post ***** and science confuses people, makes you look like more than a man than I am. ........um,..... I guess, ......duh, ......um, right?

BUT, I'm not going to get into a ******* match with you about what epoxy can and can not do, because I don't know.
....and to get into a ******* match about something that I have not read.

come on now

 

[thegarageguy]

Rent an EDCO grinding machine...

In order for epoxy to properly set and adhere, it needs the open pores of the concrete....

Simply scuffing up epoxy that is currently down will well... be a complete waste of hundreds of dollars..... (As there is no 'porosity' to epoxy and scuffing it will only yield for 'valleys' for the new epoxy to hold onto... which can be simply lifed up and out..... the concrete has little caves of porosity that will run sideways, circles, knots, up, down all over.... these are then filled with the new epoxy which actually kind of 'ties it down' or holds it to the floor securely.)


But.. your wallet, your party, ... if you want to be where your at now in 3-6 months again.... you can do that too...

I hate to say it but you are completely wrong buddy. If the floor isn't failing, there is no need to completely remove it. Sand, solvent wipe and recoat. Done it for years.

 

[47ford - 1.5ton]

I hate to say it but you are completely wrong buddy. If the floor isn't failing, there is no need to completely remove it. Sand, solvent wipe and recoat. Done it for years.

(Eeeek... You do this professionally? I'm surprised you would consider layering atop a 9 year old surface....shocked actually)

Having a bonding agent attempt to an already layered and aged compound is just asking for trouble. I'm surprised you would recommend it given your business as the original poster has already stated that parts of the 9 year old substrate are already failing.

Why would you want to bond on top of a failing layer already?

Wonder why they recommend etching even new sealed concrete then vs. just "sanding" it...

I guess I'll stick with what the the majority of professionals say.....

Shot blasting or grinding ANY previously aged sealed or coated floor

Hmm...what does that little bottom left square say again?

Good luck with the light sanding! I'm sure it will turn out spectacular....

 

[kyles974]

as the original poster has already stated that parts of the 9 year old substrate are already failing.

Where did the OP say this?
I ask because "I'm" trying to "learn" something here and didn't read where he said this

 

[kyles974]

Wonder why they recommend etching even new sealed concrete then vs. just "sanding" it...

wait a minute ford, I thought you can't just etch a "sealed" concrete floor and epoxy it, and I thought you had to grind a "sealed" concrete floor to get epoxy to stick?


PS. not trying to be a post *****, ford got me a little confused over here

 

[47ford - 1.5ton]

wait a minute ford, I thought you can't just etch a "sealed" concrete floor and epoxy it, and I thought you had to grind a "sealed" concrete floor to get epoxy to stick?

Were did I ever say that etching wasn't a way to take off sealer and expose the concrete? (Sealer vs. Epoxy is 2 different things bud) (You can also chemically remove old epoxy via a few different stripper/acid compounds....neutralize (rinse and clean) and then etch the concrete as well......vs. grinding. (Its alot more $$$, dangerous, and hassle)

OP stated

the original owner apparently used an epoxy that is now about 9 years old and really showing wear

Umm...... Is this like the tire that kinda leaks air?


MPAULY.... I'm going to go ahead and apologize for the thread jack.... Do as you please as its your floor and your money but... If you have any intentions of remaining at said property for a year or two or more... might just want to do it....'the hard way'

 

[kyles974]

I'm just trying to learn something here ford as the OP is with his topic.
I really was confused for a min. on the etching part you said.

...and as the floor failing, I can't speak for others but I didn't see it that way,

again, I'm here, trying to learn about epoxy, so any help is nice.

 

[47ford - 1.5ton]

^^^^^ Indeed....Very Sad....

PS. not trying to be a post *****

 

[kyles974]

^^^^^ Indeed....Very Sad....

Wow, nevermind, I'm not saying another word here.

 

[47ford - 1.5ton]

Wow, nevermind, I'm not saying another word here.

PS. not trying to be a post *****

Right... can't wait for another informative response

 

[MOPAULY]

Yeah the original floor covering is in good shape adhesion wise, just very worn. Scotty, it actually may be a painted floor and not epoxy; I presumed epoxy at first...if it has good adhesion overall, does this effect being able to put epoxy over it?

 

[regguy1]

Yeah the original floor covering is in good shape adhesion wise, just very worn. Scotty, it actually may be a painted floor and not epoxy; I presumed epoxy at first...if it has good adhesion overall, does this effect being able to put epoxy over it?

If it's paint you'll need to grind or shot blast to bare concrete

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Agreed.

 

[thegarageguy]

Look @47Ford, I'm responding from my 10 years of field experience, not a cheesy pamphlet, obscure blog from a so called pro or from a manufacturer's rep that most likely never installed a floor but read about it.

We install thin mil to self leveling slurry epoxies, flake and quartz floors, polyaspartic systems, urethane concrete flooring systems, marble and granite stone epoxy trowel downs, designer epoxies, acrylic modified self leveling systems, stains, dyes, microtoppings, polished concrete and everything inbetween. The only thing I have never done is MMA.

We are certified installers of Duraflex, Increte, Prosoco, Dexotex, Miracote, Elitecrete, Skimstone, Everlast, Garon Products, Duraamen and CMP Specialty products to name a few. Not only are we certified installers but these Manufacturers call my Company everyday and forward us leads and some even have us named in their Architectual specs as the preferred installers. So when I give advice here or anywhere else pertaining to my business, I say it with confidence.

With that being said, I'm never too old or too wise to learn a new trick or take good advice from a colleague. So please, besides google searching, what is your experience?

 

[MOPAULY]

Well that *****...and changes things. Now I really need to reevaluate what I'm going to do. At this point just repainting might be the simplest option.

 

[47ford - 1.5ton]

With that being said, I'm never too old or too wise to learn a new trick or take good advice from a colleague. So please, besides google searching, what is your experience?

Mechanical Engineer w/ Chemical and Heat Transfer Emphasis (Jet Turbines)

Also was Civil E for 2 years (Had structural integrity/re-gen/repair instruction much like re-casing concrete pillars in a mix of fiberglass/epoxy and now more then ever common actually... carbon fiber....)


Garageguy.....

I don't know what you throw down (100% solid / water / solvent on the regular) as I know certain states and regions have ordinances on VOC and solvent based epoxy stuff so....

being that its almost 10 yrs old .... i I would guess its probably solvent based ....and water atop solvent based is..risky(if it WAS epoxy vs... paint..)

..theres a chance for a reaction and lift between solvent and water bases.......(phenolics(solvent) can react with some water based epoxys even after everything has evaporated.

Now if your using Polyamide epoxy..... you can damn near throw it atop anything...... its solvent based but a little more vulnerable on high acid stuff....

Again... all in the ingrediants and what your using... I have no idea.. but from a generality standpoint..... from him not being the original floor designer and without knowing whats down.. I simply wouldnt want to risk it.....especially since hundreds of dollars of time/product/finish can be mitigated by simply a $60 tool rental......

Now paint... which I would think HAVE to come off...either chemically [stripper] or mechanically [edco grinder].......(again...latex/water/oil... I've never painted concrete... don't know a thing about it....not even from an actual chemical breakdown standpoint...bridge pylons are either clear and color sealed acrylics actually)

I'd hate to even rough sand and then lay water-based atop..(which would be the safest atop paint). but it is do-able....but almost EVERYONE I read on here says stay away from the big-box store water based for a DIY......

Again.. I apologize as I came on strong but....


3-$500 + is alot to risk on an unknown weared substrate when a $60-100 tool rental can mitigate and remove the risk in its entirety... (and probably provide another 'new' surface good for another 10-12+ years)


MOPAULY...

If its TRULY paint.... theres a chance a good stripper can be found at your big box store thatn will remove it.....(just ensure you remove any metal with chrome finishes from the garage when using)

You could then by chance just etch and continue on without physically grinding but...

The cost I would imagine would be the same and grinding is almost 'failsafe' if you simply just clean the newly created surface well before epoxy. (no etch needed)

 

[MOPAULY]

Good point - I will try some paint stripper on a sample area and see if it comes up. If it is paint at this point it will most likely get race decked of sorts or repainted. I'm not really in the mood to tear everything up and start from scratch just to do epoxy.

 

[rugerlady]

I will agree with most of the others here. If the current coating is bonded well and not peeling or lifting, you can rough up the surface with sandpaper and coat right over it. You will NOT need to diamond grind the entire floor.

 

[47ford - 1.5ton]

I will agree with most of the others here. If the current coating is bonded well and not peeling or lifting, you can rough up the surface with sandpaper and coat right over it. You will NOT need to diamond grind the entire floor.

Even a floor paint(not epoxy)? If the bases are different (solvent vs. water) you can get a reaction....

 

[ericburns4]

Depending on what shape the floor is in, as you say, you're definitely going to need a professional sander/grinder before applying epoxy or floor paint.

 

[1967marti]

I think that after everything is said and done, why whould you risk your $$$ on the bet that the new epoxy will stick to whatever you have on the floor now? If you are unsure of what the exact product is on the floor i would grind the floor... I rented a floor scrubber from home depot with a dimabrush head and had the floor ground down in an afternoon (cost less than 130 for 24 hours).

If i were you i would spend the extra cash and guarantee that your new epoxy will stick or at least give it the best possible chance to...