re-siding Tuff shed, questions

[BurtEggley]

have a 25 year old Tuff shed that needs new siding. A couple questions

1) what siding is best these days? This one is plywood backed like T1-11 but the exterior is like a pressed finish.

2) We hang things from the roof supports. It is build like a truss but without the bottom rafter tying it together. As a result the roof has sagged a little in the middle, which I suspect will be the walls have pushed out a little although it is not noticeable except the roof. I want to brace the walls so they are parallel the same as if they had been built with a full truss. But I do not want to take the roof off and redo the whole thing with trusses. So I thought I would use a come along to pull the walls back in if they are bowed, and then brace it from happening again with 2x4s spanning between walls. The issue is tying them into existing construction. If they go under the top plate then they would end up nailed to the studs and top plate and reinforced with some kind of Simpson tie. They could also be cut to fit against the roof supports, and nailed into them making some kind of truss. What I want to avoid is the pressure splitting wood over time. There is no room to lay them on top of the top plate like a true truss would have been. Anyone been here and how did you solve the issue? One alternative would be to sandwich each existing roof 2x4 with a pair of 2x4 rafters spanning the walls, then glue and nail them together while the come along is holding the walls back to parallel. That way the nails or bolts could penetrate all three 2x4s. But that seems like over kill for a 10 x 12 shed that just has odds and ends hanging from screw hooks - leaf blower, 5 gallon bucket with spare PVC fittings, sprayers, 5 gallon buckets with misc drip irrigation fittings in them etc.. I am afraid that trying to use a Simpson tie and just angle nailing them to the internal side of the top plate won't hold because they will be in tension.

 

[CluelessPro]

If it were my shed, I would rebuild the roof or attach the 2x4 to the bottom top plate. If I were you, I'd consider running heavy wire or metal strapping from the outside of the top plate near every other truss while you have the siding off. This might settle your concern with pressure splitting.

 

[readhead]

Where are you located? Having been a tuff shed dealer I can tell you that sagging “trusses” are one of the biggest warranty issues right after roof sheeting rot. The “truss” has very little load capacity. If you are in snow country and didn’t request heavier roof capacity it will fail.

You are on the right track with installing a new bottom cord. A combination of nails, screws and metal brackets should do the trick. By the way the siding you have is called Duratemp.

 

[BurtEggley]

thank you. We are in Central California. The shed is 1998 vintage so I am sure the warranty would be expired. Right now I am looking at handyman services to do it this summer. I gave my number to the local Tuff shed dealer asking if they had someone who did this sort of thing and they never called.

On the strap - meaning nail the bottom cord to the top plate with structural nails, and run a strap from the outside of the top plate to that cord. Just something like this and bend it 90 degrees.

 

[Firebrick43]

Just use a 1x6 face nailed to the side of the rafters after pulling it back in. Cut it to fit as far out/down as you can but it doesn’t have to land on the top plate. Many rafter ties are set above that but no more than a third of the rafter height

As far as splitting, use a lot of 6 Penney nails instead of framing sinkers. Old trusses with ply doublers used this method of lots of small nails before the press plates came in vogue.

Or pilot drill for #8 GRK construction screws.

 

[BurtEggley]

Just use a 1x6 face nailed to the side of the rafters after pulling it back in. Cut it to fit as far out/down as you can but it doesn’t have to land on the top plate. Many rafter ties are set above that but no more than a third of the rafter height

As far as splitting, use a lot of 6 Penney nails instead of framing sinkers. Old trusses with ply doublers used this method of lots of small nails before the press plates came in vogue.

Or pilot drill for #8 GRK construction screws.

so tie the rafter to the new cord with a 1 x 6 strap, and nail the new cord under the top plate say to the stud and top plate at each rafter location after pulling back in?

 

[Firebrick43]

No bottom chord needed or you can say the rafter tie is the bottom chord?

Just cut a 1x6 to fit a well as possible against the pitch of the roof and along side the existing rafters and face nail it on with lots of small nails. If it makes you feel better do it on both sides of the rafters but such a small shed a single 1x6 is more than sufficient per rafter

Here is a photo pulled of the web. The lower you can get them the better

 

[BurtEggley]

Ok. Would you use any simpson tie with that or just shoot two staggered nails in each end holding them together etc?

 

[Firebrick43]

Ok. Would you use any simpson tie with that or just shoot two staggered nails in each end holding them together etc?

The Simpson strong tie hardware that I think you are referring to are uplift straps that tie the roof to the walls to prevent uplift from taking the whole roof.

If you have that kind of uplift it’s going to take your shed itself. They are not going to strengthen the rafter tie to rafter joint significantly.

Steel roll strapping could be used but you would have to get it over the rafter (under the roof deck) itself and wrap it under and back up but even then I would say no.

As I stated in post six, you need to use “a lot of 6 penny nails“


“Two staggered nails” is NOT suitable. Look at a truss plate, see all the small diameter cleats that spread the loads out and don’t concentrate them causing splitting?


You should be able to fit six or even eight small nails on that joint. Don’t go over 6 penny (6D). More 4 penny (4D) would be even better. The small 0.98” diameter shanks mitigate the chance of splitting near the edge.

 

[Firebrick43]

Here is a truss I built to plans and the plans nailing schedule. You can see how many nails were used (6D)

You also may want to pick up a palm nailer. Not
Only can it be hard to swing a hammer in the tight space where the wall, tie, and rafter all come together but if the rafter was just toenailed hitting it from the side with a hammer can loosen it

 

[readhead]

Firebrick offers a good solution with a clear explanation.

 

[BurtEggley]

ok, I see my work will be cut out for me. 6d is usually 2" long. I have some galvanized siding nails for my nail gun that are 2 3/8" x .112 ring shank. Those would give 0.875" penetration into the existing beams. 2" would only give 0.5" penetration. Should I run a bolt, washer and nut plus the many 6D, or just many 6D, or use the nail gun and .112" ring shank 2 3/8" nails. Going to do this while the siding is off and the walls can be pulled in. I want to keep it as simple as possible because after surgery this week I will have to hire a handyman and supervise only if I want it done this summer. I am thinking 6 to 9 nails per side - or about 3/4" apart, plus construction adhesive. Will that work?

 

[Firebrick43]

ok, I see my work will be cut out for me. 6d is usually 2" long. I have some galvanized siding nails for my nail gun that are 2 3/8" x .112 ring shank. Those would give 0.875" penetration into the existing beams. 2" would only give 0.5" penetration.

Use a 1x6. 2x material complete over kill and if you do want to to do overkill do a 1x6 on both sides, it will be stronger that way than a single 2x6. With a 1x6 a 2 3/8 nail will peak out

Should I run a bolt, washer and nut plus the many 6D, or just many 6D, or use the nail gun and .112" ring shank 2 3/8" nails.

If you can find some 2" long .112 nails you can used those if your gun will fit close enough to the roof and

Going to do this while the siding is off and the walls can be pulled in. I want to keep it as simple as possible because after surgery this week I will have to hire a handyman and supervise only if I want it done this summer. I am thinking 6 to 9 nails per side - or about 3/4" apart, plus construction adhesive. Will that work?
Pull in the walls is great. Done it several times on big old barns. We use cables as a rafter tie in those but same idea to keep the walls from spreading and jack the hog back roof back up. We would normally tighten the come alongs or chain binders half a turn a day to do it slow but some of those big barns where pushed out a foot or more in the center

There wouldn't be any thing wrong in adding construction adhesive.

 

[BurtEggley]

Here, #2, 2" x 4" x 12' premium grade fir are $7.18 each. 1" x 6" x 10' common (usually really poor quality) are $9.84 each. Better quality are about $18 each. Probably will use 2 x 4s due to cost and better quality available. Any opinion on whether a 2 3/8" ring shank nail @ .875" penetration with construction adhesive will be long enough if we use 6 to 9 per connection? They also make 3" .120" 21 degree ring shank nails for the Hitachi NR83A framing gun I have. We could probably fit four of those in comfortably per connection. If it was just me and not a handyman that would be doing the work, I would probably cut each 2x4 custom to fit inside the frame like a real truss, and use a truss strap or plywood gusset like in the other photos, but that is asking too much from a handyman. It would add too much cost to the repair. I won't be able to lift more than 5 lbs to 10 lbs for like three months to six months after the surgery according to the doctor so all I can do is supervise. Neither of my dogs are going to be happy about this part of it because they love to jump up and be held and petted for a few moments. Like children, hug and take off.

The local orange store has LP SmartSide panel siding 7/16 (.375) 4 x 8 sheets. The closest Dura Temp I can find is about 100 miles from here. Will the LP SmartSide paneling last more or less as long as the Dura Temp? Any opinions? 200 miles round trip for siding is a lot. The siding on the shed now is 27 years old and is rotting at the bottom in spots where the concrete is four to six inches above soil - best guess is splash from rain, but all the trim has been headed south for at least 15 years, so it is easier just to replace it all than the bottom 24" or so. The trim swells when it rains, even though it has been kept well painted during its life. I'll probably have them paint the bottom foot of each panel on the inside to lengthen the life, although even without it, it will out last me.

 

[readhead]

Most shed builders use LP Smartside and have moved away from DuraTemp. Smartside is easy to find and I like the way it works better.

 

[Firebrick43]

Here, #2, 2" x 4" x 12' premium grade fir are $7.18 each. 1" x 6" x 10' common (usually really poor quality) are $9.84 each. Better quality are about $18 each. Probably will use 2 x 4s due to cost and better quality available. Any opinion on whether a 2 3/8" ring shank nail @ .875" penetration with construction adhesive will be long enough if we use 6 to 9 per connection? They also make 3" .120" 21 degree ring shank nails for the Hitachi NR83A framing gun I have. We could probably fit four of those in comfortably per connection. If it was just me and not a handyman that would be doing the work, I would probably cut each 2x4 custom to fit inside the frame like a real truss, and use a truss strap or plywood gusset like in the other photos, but that is asking too much from a handyman. It would add too much cost to the repair. I won't be able to lift more than 5 lbs to 10 lbs for like three months to six months after the surgery according to the doctor so all I can do is supervise. Neither of my dogs are going to be happy about this part of it because they love to jump up and be held and petted for a few moments. Like children, hug and take off.

The local orange store has LP SmartSide panel siding 7/16 (.375) 4 x 8 sheets. The closest Dura Temp I can find is about 100 miles from here. Will the LP SmartSide paneling last more or less as long as the Dura Temp? Any opinions? 200 miles round trip for siding is a lot. The siding on the shed now is 27 years old and is rotting at the bottom in spots where the concrete is four to six inches above soil - best guess is splash from rain, but all the trim has been headed south for at least 15 years, so it is easier just to replace it all than the bottom 24" or so. The trim swells when it rains, even though it has been kept well painted during its life. I'll probably have them paint the bottom foot of each panel on the inside to lengthen the life, although even without it, it will out last me.

I have seen 2x4 nailed on the ends as a rafter tie split from the forces. They don't have much space and therefore you can only get 2 or 3 nails which is why i was recommending a 1x6.

I wouldn't use a 2x4 unless you used a 1/2" plywood gusset to get enough nails personally.

If cost is such a concern, and your taking off the siding, why not just get some #9 wire from tough **** charlies (Tractor supply) for 25 bucks and wrap 2 times from top plate to top plate and connect the ends. Then stick a wood toggle and tighten just like a fence corner strainer is. You can add twist if you need more tension if you leave the toggle in or lock it like this video