Read Carefully: 6 Point Socket vs 12 Point Wrench

[danmcph]

I wrote read carefully because my question is NOT 6 vs 12 point sockets.

I have read a bunch of the 6 point vs 12 point threads and I know there is a load of back and forth on that. My take away is that if it is rusted or stubborn and I have a 6 point socket I should use it just to be certain.

So here is my question. If I have a very rusted fastener and I need to break it free is it better to use a 6 point socket or a 12 point box end wrench? The wrench would deliver the rotation on the same plane as the fastener needs to turn. The socket is delivering the rotational force in a plane that is offset from the fastener by roughly the height of the socket and the ratchet.

I know that I don't have all the technical terms correct in that question but I am hoping it is clear enough. So would it be better to reach for a 12 point that delivers the force in the same plane or a 6 point that delivers it in a slightly different plan along with the slight camming action this would create?

 

[thooks]

It seems that a box end wrench, even 12 pt, always breaks it better than a socket/ratchet.

If I need to break it free, I'm reaching for my 26" HF 1/2" breaker and the best 6 pt socket I have.

 

[mlum6969]

i prefer using a socket and ratchet.. i like to give them very rusty fasteners a little heat and hammer on a 6 point socket. unless its a very restricted area, i don't like to use a wrench.

 

[Jeremy77]

I would say that the wrench is almost always the better option for breaking a rusted, corroded etc. fastener loose if clearance isn't an issue. Of course, a lot of time it isn't practical or even possible to get a wrench in certain areas. Then, like thooks said, the socket and breaker bar are invaluable.

 

[rlitman]

... The wrench would deliver the rotation on the same plane as the fastener needs to turn. The socket is delivering the rotational force in a plane that is offset from the fastener by roughly the height of the socket and the ratchet...

It is better to think of the socket delivering the torque in two components. One component is in the axis of the fastener, and the other is perpendicular to it. The swiveling component of a breaker bar kind of avoids the issue you get with a fixed ratchet.

Anyway, that's one reason that I prefer an impact wrench.

 

[gdocktor3]

I choose wrench on very rusted fasteners. When using socket/ratchet you tend to need two hands, one to hold socket on fastener and other on ratchet handle. A wrench you lock on and lean in to it. I also feel better about hammering on a $10 wrench vs a $100 ratchet/socket if any persuasion is needed.

 

[md21722]

Heat, impact, going back and forth is often your best chance of getting it to come off without breaking that whether or not you are using a 12 pt wrench or 6 pt socket. Also, most commonly available wrenches are 15 degree offset.

 

[PugetDude]

6-point Socket
Breaker bar
Pipe cheater

 

[MikeF2316]

You counterhold your ratchet so you're then applying a pure torque. Imagine an extension 10 feet long. I'd push on the ratchet head with my left hand, pull with my right on the handle. The ratchet doesn't move, except for rotation.

The wrench you're just pulling on one end, the bolt is providing all the other forces necessary to keep the wrench from moving.

And a 6 point anything is going to grip a rusted fastener better than anything 12 point, as long as you stay square.

 

[Gmonkee]

The location of the bolt tells me what to use. My preference is wrenches by default but all the other options are in the shop if need arises.

I do a fair share of suspension work so the big bolts come my way too.

 

[dnschmidt]

Live in Arizona where you don't have to deal with this ****. A Crescent wrench works just fine.

 

[Skin]

Assuming the socket is sitting properly the fact that the torque is offset is pretty much inconsequential to where the fastener is loaded-so to speak. It would only becomes a problem if the socket tilts/rolls off. Working in the rust zone i'd take the socket any day.

 

[nbpt100]

All of the posts above make good points. What I will add that is a bit different is this.
It can depend on the size of the bolt. In general as everyone says a 6 pt. is a safer bet.

However, When you get in to larger size bolts the difference between using a 6 vs. 12 pt. become less significant.

Are you are talking about a 10 mm hex bolt or a 32mm hex bolt?

What MikeF2316 says is very important. You want to try to keep the tool from tipping on the bolt. You want the applied torque to be co-axial with the bolt.

Heat
PB blaster
Leverage
Back and forth motion
Impact

All techniques that will help but every situation is different and it becomes a judgement call how much to use of each.

 

[Finky198]

Epic THREAD Man

All good advice being a rust belt guy, I have to agree with the two above posts to a T as well as few others in this thread. And a few to most likely come...

But Because I have both 6pt and 12pt upto 3/4 drive and matching wrenches It doesn't matter.
It all about using the right one for the job at hand.

 

[bcradio]

Live in Arizona where you don't have to deal with this ****. A Crescent wrench works just fine.

This

 

[Empty Pockets]

6 point socket with a 24" breaker bar. Add a cheater pipe if necessary

 

[kctyphoon]

I was just pressing in leaf spring bushings, and a 12pt wrench really did chew up the cheap nuts I was using on my makeshift press kit when I really had to apply ALOT of force.. I opted to use a 6pt deep socket and that 1/2" HF extending ratchet to do the others..

That extending HF ratchet has held up to WAY more than I'd ever expect it.. I've basically been using it as a ratcheting breaker bar, and even with all my force on it, it holds up fine. To break the big rusted bolt free, I try using a 6pt socket and impact whenever I can first..

 

[md21722]

I was just pressing in leaf spring bushings, and a 12pt wrench really did chew up the cheap nuts I was using on my makeshift press kit when I really had to apply ALOT of force.. I opted to use a 6pt deep socket and that 1/2" HF extending ratchet to do the others..

That extending HF ratchet has held up to WAY more than I'd ever expect it.. I've basically been using it as a ratcheting breaker bar, and even with all my force on it, it holds up fine. To break the big rusted bolt free, I try using a 6pt socket and impact whenever I can first..

One problem with the HF ratchet at least in 3/8" is the metal ratchet does not extend to the end of the plastic grip. But it is lifetime warranty.

 

[WittHay]

Probably meaningless to mention because they are not available anymore. Snap-on used to make a 6-point double box-end wrench. They were longer than a combination wrench and had just the right angle so you had a straight pull. They were awesome for smaller rusted fasteners.

Myself, I use 6-point impacts on rusted fasteners

 

[kbuhagiar]

You counterhold your ratchet so you're then applying a pure torque. Imagine an extension 10 feet long. I'd push on the ratchet head with my left hand, pull with my right on the handle. The ratchet doesn't move, except for rotation.

The wrench you're just pulling on one end, the bolt is providing all the other forces necessary to keep the wrench from moving.

And a 6 point anything is going to grip a rusted fastener better than anything 12 point, as long as you stay square.

This.

 

[bcradio]

That extending HF ratchet has held up to WAY more than I'd ever expect it.. I've basically been using it as a ratcheting breaker bar, and even with all my force on it, it holds up fine. To break the big rusted bolt free, I try using a 6pt socket and impact whenever I can first..

And for me it has held up WAY less than expected. It skips constantly... I am very unimpressed with it to say the least.

 

[FlushingDIYer]

+1 on the breaker bars and sockets

In particular, I've found the 1/4" and 3/8" breaker bars to really be a game changer sometimes when clearance is an issue and you're dealing with a rusted fastener.

 

[Wakefield]

Big 3/4" drive sliding T handle slider in the middle and a 3/4" drive 6 point socket (or a good quality 3/4" to 1/2" adapter if you don't have a 3/4" socket to fit)
not hard to keep the socket from cocking
if using a regular breaker bar or ratchet then use the shallowest socket and shortest extension that will work/ reach (to reduce the chance of cocking)

 

[Al Borland]

You counterhold your ratchet so you're then applying a pure torque. Imagine an extension 10 feet long. I'd push on the ratchet head with my left hand, pull with my right on the handle.

So your left hand is on the ratchet head, and your right hand is pulling on the handle 10 feet away....
So, you've just outed your secret identity, Mr. Fantastic...

 

[T45]

Maybe not said in this thread is you want the best torque delivery...

which tends to favour stiff, one piece with close to zero off-axis geometry...

so in general a wrench is better because it delivers force better.

there are edge cases where you still want 6point. so its not one or the other.

 

[MikeF2316]

So your left hand is on the ratchet head, and your right hand is pulling on the handle 10 feet away....
So, you've just outed your secret identity, Mr. Fantastic...

Just call me Tim.

 

[toolmutt]

I agree that keeping the applied force in the same plane as the fastener is key. I have six point wrenches to gain the advantages of both.

 

[danmcph]

Does anyone make 6 point wrenches, preferably long pattern?

 

[Provincial]

A significant factor is the shape and condition of the bolt (nut) head. Is it a shallow, standard, or tall hex? Is it rounded or rusted? Has rust reduced the size of the hex or caused the hex to be tapered?

A hex in bad conditon makes the chance of damage from the 12-point tool much greater, and makes the use of a 6-point prudent.

I have had success in using a breaker bar and socket on stuck bolts and nuts. It requires some care in applying the force to the bolt head.

I find that a box wrench with the handle perpendicular to the bolt, rather than angled, works better. I suppose because it is easier to determine how you have to apply the pull.

 

[Dimitri]

I use a box end wrench, obviously 12 point and a mallet. Between those two choices anyways.

Dimitri

 

[d.mcfarland]

You counterhold your ratchet so you're then applying a pure torque. Imagine an extension 10 feet long. I'd push on the ratchet head with my left hand, pull with my right on the handle. The ratchet doesn't move, except for rotation.

The wrench you're just pulling on one end, the bolt is providing all the other forces necessary to keep the wrench from moving.

And a 6 point anything is going to grip a rusted fastener better than anything 12 point, as long as you stay square.

All of the posts above make good points. What I will add that is a bit different is this.
It can depend on the size of the bolt. In general as everyone says a 6 pt. is a safer bet.

However, When you get in to larger size bolts the difference between using a 6 vs. 12 pt. become less significant.

Are you are talking about a 10 mm hex bolt or a 32mm hex bolt?

What MikeF2316 says is very important. You want to try to keep the tool from tipping on the bolt. You want the applied torque to be co-axial with the bolt.

Heat
PB blaster
Leverage
Back and forth motion
Impact

All techniques that will help but every situation is different and it becomes a judgement call how much to use of each.

Bingo by these.

 

[Wakefield]

Does anyone make 6 point wrenches, preferably long pattern?

Snap On OSHM150B (comes in a set 10 mm thu 17 mm skipping 16 mm (they must assume you will use a 5/8") these are combination wrenches and ain't cheap!
I believe Sears/Craftsman used to have 6 point box end or combination wrenches but probably not anymore.

Anyone,does Proto have 6 point box end wrench/combo?

 

[Dimitri]

Proto should, they Mac and Facom all share product lines.

Mac lists

SCB76PTKS in 3/8 to 3/4 as 7 piece set.
SMHB10KS in 10mm to 19mn as a 10 piece set

Dimitri

 

[Whchua]

I use a box end wrench, obviously 12 point and a mallet. Between those two choices anyways.

Dimitri

X2 i do it the same way.

 

[superautobacs]

Does anyone make 6 point wrenches, preferably long pattern?

Nepros does. The hex is broached with a 15* offset to allow for the wrench to be worked at 30*

 

[Mr.Nutcase]

does not matter, as long you have good brand like Snap ON,Matco,Cornwell, ect

 

[Tallpilot]

Isn't this exactly what 0 offset box end wrenches are used for?

On this subject though why do sets like the one above have so many repeats? By the time one buys 0 offset wrenches he already has several other wrench sets. I don't want to pay $100 for 3 wrenches and get 3 sizes when I could get 6.

 

[Wakefield]

Nepros does. The hex is broached with a 15* offset to allow for the wrench to be worked at 30*

Wow,something to salivate over. Is that a newer addition to their line?

 

[superautobacs]

Wow,something to salivate over. Is that a newer addition to their line?

Not at all. Part of their lineup for as long as I can remember.

 

[Gmonkee]

I get the idea some of you are trying to solve a problem you solved several times over already.

Spending more on another wrench set you will ultimately find very limited in regular use is not spending smart.

The fancy Nepros stuff is cool but unless Japanese bikes are your main focus they won't see a ton of use. I have some regular bike kit tools and they are awkward in automotive use.