Couldnt find the thread I read the other day but here is a photo of why I like to use wire nuts instead of the push in connectors. To be honest I dont know if it was the design or if someone installed incorrectly. But here is a photo of one of my Can Lights.
Reason for wire nuts
- Thread starter Regnar
- Start date
ishiboo
Well-known member
I think those nuts are pretty reliable. But a lot of recessed lights use finely stranded, small-gauge wires which are NOT rated for use with the Wago wire nuts you see there. Even the ones that are, it's easy to incorrectly install them incorrectly and have a bunch of strands pushed out.
They work great on solid and stranded wire like 12-14 THHN.
They work great on solid and stranded wire like 12-14 THHN.
GShelton
Well-known member
Those come pre installed with the can wire already in there. I hate those connectors!
Other thread:
www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180008
Other thread:
www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180008
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
Those come pre installed with the can wire already in there. I love those connectors!
I can with all honesty say I have seen WAY more wire nut failures than push-ins. In fact, I have yet to see a failure of a push-in connector. And I have installed hundreds and hundreds of those Halo cans.
I can with all honesty say I have seen WAY more wire nut failures than push-ins. In fact, I have yet to see a failure of a push-in connector. And I have installed hundreds and hundreds of those Halo cans.
ishiboo
Well-known member
I'm surprised you and I share a viewpoint on this
It's interesting that because a push in uses a metal spring, it must be unreliable and prone to failure. That's all a wire nut is - plastic around a small spiraled piece of spring steel!
IMO when it comes to solid #14 and #12 wire as well, a novice is better off installing a push in than a wire nut which they can easily mess up.
mobiledynamics
Well-known member
A wire nut is just a insulating cap......IF the wires were properly terminated with a linesman
ishiboo
Well-known member
Many of the new nuts do not require pre-twisting. I've actually found the best connection is if I hold the wires with my linesman, then use a nut driver and drive the nut until the wires twist outside the nut.
I think those nuts are pretty reliable. But a lot of recessed lights use finely stranded, small-gauge wires which are NOT rated for use with the Wago wire nuts you see there. Even the ones that are, it's easy to incorrectly install them incorrectly and have a bunch of strands pushed out.
They work great on solid and stranded wire like 12-14 THHN.
The burnt wire is a Solid 14g wire. The stranded off the Can light is soldered on the end and still looks good.
Thats what my thinking was the other day too. If you look closely at the picture you will notice bare wire sticking out of both connectors. I looked at Wago's install instructions and they specify 13mm of stripped wire. This is well over a inch. I will be going and checking every can light tomorrow for proper install.
Just a little background. House is 4 years old and I have only been here for 1. I have a feeling an electrician installed these as all the wire is stapled down and under insulation but Im not sure. I have 32 Can Lights in the house. I will have a busy day.
Where are the romex ends secureing the cables ?
And all the connections need to be within that fixture j-box......
The Burnt wire is white and the Wago wire is white.....Is there still a stub of copper in the wago ? did they nick/cut the copper when stripping the insulation ?
And all the connections need to be within that fixture j-box......
The Burnt wire is white and the Wago wire is white.....Is there still a stub of copper in the wago ? did they nick/cut the copper when stripping the insulation ?
I'll bet there are off shore copies of the real Wago connectors. Incorrect metal used for the contacts/springs inside. sort of like the automotive fuses that wouldn't open when overloaded and soft aluminum wire terminal kits.
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
NOT at all true. A wire nut is a termination device.
While I almost always pre-twist my wires, it is NOT necessary. The wire nut can also do the twisting for you, IF it is done correctly. IE: The wires should be twisted the same after the nut is installed whether you pre-twisted or not.
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
They are SO not though.
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
That is a Halo recessed can. The j-box is attached to the frame. Those black things are cable grips that hold the cables.
He just removed the splice from the box to show it.
Gooch
Well-known member
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
Have you ever had a problem with one?
mobiledynamics
Well-known member
Hard to change habits.
I won't pretwist if I'm doing something like a high hat - stranded to a solid.
On something with 2 wires, I might not pretwist if it's a switch or something that I think might get changed out.
Everything else, I do it to the point where 3/4" on the insulated wire is twisted as well.
Tim The Tool Man
Well-known member
To me, it really looks like your push-ins had little to do with your short and more to do with a careless install. Looks like your hot lead wasn't properly seated or pushed in all the way and slowly worked its way out through many warm-up/cool-down cycles over maybe several years. Eventually it slipped out and unfortunately made contact with an exposed neutral wire which also maybe wasn't seated properly.
IMHO those push-ins are absolutely fine and very convenient especially when you are installing umpteen high hats but the wires need to be completely seated, no exposed wire, and given a good tug before the connection is sealed up.
IMHO those push-ins are absolutely fine and very convenient especially when you are installing umpteen high hats but the wires need to be completely seated, no exposed wire, and given a good tug before the connection is sealed up.
G_P
Well-known member
Gooch
Well-known member
We've had a few with issues. Usually it was the stranded wire for the light itself. cheaper to spend an extra minute per can to twist and nut, than to have to make another trip back to the job after the drywall is up and take the whole can apart and work in the jbox through the can opening , just to twist and nut.
I see no difference between this design and back stab recepts.
I've seen issues with them before the space was even used. Things are junk
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
No offense, but maybe it's an installer thing. Like I said, I have installed hundreds and hundreds of Halo cans with these connectors and literally have not had one failure.
Well, obviously there IS a difference because the failure rate between the two is night and day.
Gooch
Well-known member
None taken, like I said, usually the problem was the stranded fixture wire that was in there, and usually it was that it pulled out of the connector, Boss said after the first few that we had do that to just snip em and use wire nuts.