Reasonable Parts Markup?

[toolenthusiast]

guess what the local dealers around here are charging a "core charge" if you don't return the stolen cat

No, they’re not. The automakers charge the dealers and you have to reimburse the dealer if you don’t provide a core. This is standard on engines, transmissions, wheels, bumper covers, all sorts of things. You’ve never heard of a core?

 

[sparky 1971]

Cost is cost. Thats a thing to put in a quote. The fact that you have 3 tools that can do both doesn't mean the cost should be absorbed from the one which it wasn't needed. Also, I didn't speak of witchhunting of rare parts. That's of course billable, I disagree with the practice of markup. An uneducated customer that is a pain in the rear end I agree is the worst and it may even save money to oust him. Completely undersandable. I was selling a window gutter once, the guy had me one hour in the phone. I asked more for the hassle and annoyance. I would put it under consulting though, not markup

I'm in a different industry, but have to agree that cost is cost. As a self employed small time electrician, I charge the same $120.00 per hour to the person that needs a switch replaced as I do the person where I am running conduit and have to drag out my ratcheting bender that I paid $5800.00 for. The same goes for when I use my scissor lift, except I charge an additional $100 per day for the lift. And I mark up whatever I feel is necessary, usually 50%, more for cheap parts and a little less for the high dollar stuff.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

You are awfully wound up over something that many of us, myself especially, have ceded to be a foregone conclusion. We all know that parts are marked up…and we all know it’s a shell game.

Just like buying a car, the way it is is the way it because it’s the way it’s always been. Folks get tired of doc fees and four squares, but they play the games because that’s what’s required to make the transaction.

Just charge what you need to charge to make then only you need to make. Stop trying to hide it in parts markups, shop supplies, diag fees, etc…just charge the price.

Oh well, life goes on, and stupid customers still keep the lights on.

Diagnostic work isn't BS by the way.

That's the last fee I would ever call unneeded unless the consumer is not actually getting a diagnosis. A diagnosis comes with all variables listed and pathways documented.

"Customer states engine runs poorly and check engine lamp on.

Codes pulled, p0300, p0302, p0304, p0306 - misfires on each bank 2 cylinder as well as random or multiple misfire.

Engine starts and runs normally, withing +/-10% fuel trims. No misfire counts rising at idle, history misfires also list cylinder 2 4 and 6 as per codes.

Vehicle test driven, after approx 5min of driving, engine begins misfiring. At this time, fuel trims for bank 2 begin heavily adding fuel. At idle, black smoke can be seen from tailpipe. Front oxygen sensor on bank 2 is full lean, while rear sensor is full rich.

Inspection of bank 2 sensor 1 finds oil contamination of sensor, from leaking valve cover gasket. This has poisoned the sensor, causing incorrect fuel metering.

Replace bank 2 sensor 1 oxygen sensor, and repair oil leak at valve cover. If customer has not replaced spark plugs, intake manifold will already be removed and additional labor minimal".


How is that not the best deal around?

 

[liliysdad]

I know what a Diagnostic Fee is for, and what it covers…and you’re absolutely right in that it’s not a BS service. When viewed on an invoice along with all the other nonsense charges, fees, and surcharges, however, it just fades into the noise.

 

[MarineScott]

Hey all.

What do you consider a reasonable parts markup for automotive repair shop-supplied parts?

I took my car in for a tire leak repair (front passenger), and Les Schwab, my usual tire dealer, told me that there was some significant wear, and that I should bring my car in for an alignment.

Dropped it off the following day for the alignment, and got a call a bit later that the front driver's tire was way more worn on the inside than even the passenger was, and that the inner tie rod was shot, just bouncing around in the ball joint.

I've always trusted Schwab's, they've never pulled any "you need these unnecessary repairs" BS on me, and I really didn't want to deal with the repair myself at the moment, so I went ahead and authorized them to fix it and do the alignment afterwards.

Anyhow, it's fixed, all is said and done, but examining the receipt, I see that I was charged $97.15 for the tie rod - a Moog EV455. For what they charged me, I can buy 4 of those things.

I certainly understand some parts markup, so, as a forewarning, I'm not griping about parts being marked up in general. That's the price you pay, literally, for having a shop do the work instead of doing it yourself.

I'm just kind of stunned by the over 400% markup - and, quite frankly, due to that, Schwab's has lost my trust, and I won't be using them ever again for anything other than tires.

So, I'll ask again: What do you consider a reasonable parts markup for automotive repair shop-supplied parts?

It has always been 30-35% with us

 

[Mgdoug3]

I work on farm equipment often. After dealing with some of the messes I've come across, I'm not too tore up about shop or cleaning supplies. If I have to go through a case of paper towels, brake cleaner, and an hour of power washing, I'm charging for it. Maybe it'll give people incentive to clean their equipment a little before bringing it to me. I can work on as much equipment as I like since dealerships are months behind and people don't mind my pricing.

 

[toolenthusiast]

Shop supplies are ********, I agree. Bake it into the labor rate.

Issue being, the business can raise its gross profit artificially by implementing and manipulating shop supplies. Thus, the accounting dept and the middle managers live for shop supplies and other nonsense.

Oooh, 2GR, I usually agree with 99% of everything you say but I think this is actually a bad take on shop supplies. I’m sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but here we go…

• It’s easy to rack up a $1,000+ statement from the nut and bolt guy in a small shop in a month.
• Don’t forget about those random quick orders to the parts store: “Send me a case of washer fluid.”… “How fast can you get me a bag of oil dry?”… “We’re out of PAG oil. Yup, r134a. Nope, not hybrid.”…
• Somebody in the office has to place orders, write POs, sign invoices, cut checks, cross-reference the statement to the invoices, et cetera. These are indirect costs but they are part of the shop’s cost to acquire shop supplies.
• If you’re in a big city, those couple square feet of shop floor space that are occupied by the nut and bolt cabinets could be costing you a couple hundred bucks a month in rent.
• Every RO involves shop supplies. Even an oil change is gonna take gloves, a rag, and some scrubby hand soap. (And we all know about those ****** oil filter locations that require you to hose the engine cradle with brake cleaner or face a comeback for “C/S oil leaking on driveway, see history”.)

Ok, so maybe you just bump up your labor rate a little bit instead of charging for shop supplies. What’s wrong with that?

• If you have techs that are on a “percentage split” pay system, do they need to get a raise this month because zipties were expensive last month? If a new nut and bolt guy comes in and saves you money, isn’t it impossible to give your customers a price break on shop supplies now? That’ll show up on your techs’ paychecks!
• Is it getting a little pricey to order new labor rate signs for the lobby every time there’s a fluctuation in materials usage or pricing?
• The other 3 shops on the street don’t bury their shop supplies cost in their labor rate; they’re billing separately for materials like everyone else. Does your new combined hourly rate seem uncompetitive when customers see your one big number?
• Does a customer whose BMW needs a bunch of programming, coding, and calibration need to pay a lot of money towards shop supplies? Doesn’t a quick little Ecotec valve cover job use way more supplies that the huge BMW software job?
• If the state tax man asks why you don’t pay taxes to Auveco/Kent/Wurth, how are you gonna claim a resale exemption if you didn’t bill out any supplies? Now you have to pay sales tax on your supply bills. Sweet.

Now of course this is not to say that the lazy way that most shops “bill for shop supplies” is brilliant or is the most transparent business practice. The shop supplies should have some sort of correlation to what’s actually used

 

[junkyardwarrior]

yup those who keep saying shop supplies charges are bogus, don't have to run the business. They don't see what it actually costs. Just because I pay the employee $25/hr doesn't mean it costs me $25 per hour. In actuality, by time I pay insurance and everything else that goes with it, it's closer to $32/hr just as an example of course. A lot of folks don't know it but dealerships are often charged money per employee that doesn't have a certification. I'm "gold" certified, zero charge. Before I got the gold, it was $310/mo that the boss had to eat. That's why they push getting certifications and such. Place I used to work for was over $500/mo. Getting the certs meant driving across the country for a 2 or 3 week class in some cases. Techs have a life too and that kind of stuff can be a real burden. "They get paid to travel and party for a couple weeks"...yeah right. It's still work, away from family, friends, etc. often in a boring classroom for 7 or 8 hours. Shop I used to work for was turning between $900,000 and $970,000 a month, depending on how much business there was, so $500 was no big deal, but the boss still hounded us to get it done. He liked to nickle and dime everything though.

Supplies. Shop rags, fluid retention, pay the reclamation company to dispose of retention mats, used oil, pay the battery people to take Lithium batteries (that's a big cost on it's own which people never want to pay...currently $6 per pound and should come down soon), trash bags, trash containers, markers, computers, air conditioner, fans, tools that dealer provides (which is a rarity these days), the many things that people take for granted, and say "well that's just about $1, ain't hard to eat $1 when you make $1,000,000 a year is it". $1 for each R/O in a years' time adds up.

 

[Wrench97]

No, they’re not. The automakers charge the dealers and you have to reimburse the dealer if you don’t provide a core. This is standard on engines, transmissions, wheels, bumper covers, all sorts of things. You’ve never heard of a core?

For a catalytic convertor? No never heard of a core for one.

 

[unslow1]

No, they’re not. The automakers charge the dealers and you have to reimburse the dealer if you don’t provide a core. This is standard on engines, transmissions, wheels, bumper covers, all sorts of things. You’ve never heard of a core?

I've never heard of a core charge on a catalytic converter either. We had to order a ton of them the last couple of years.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Oooh, 2GR, I usually agree with 99% of everything you say but I think this is actually a bad take on shop supplies. I’m sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but here we go…

• It’s easy to rack up a $1,000+ statement from the nut and bolt guy in a small shop in a month.
• Don’t forget about those random quick orders to the parts store: “Send me a case of washer fluid.”… “How fast can you get me a bag of oil dry?”… “We’re out of PAG oil. Yup, r134a. Nope, not hybrid.”…
• Somebody in the office has to place orders, write POs, sign invoices, cut checks, cross-reference the statement to the invoices, et cetera. These are indirect costs but they are part of the shop’s cost to acquire shop supplies.
• If you’re in a big city, those couple square feet of shop floor space that are occupied by the nut and bolt cabinets could be costing you a couple hundred bucks a month in rent.
• Every RO involves shop supplies. Even an oil change is gonna take gloves, a rag, and some scrubby hand soap. (And we all know about those ****** oil filter locations that require you to hose the engine cradle with brake cleaner or face a comeback for “C/S oil leaking on driveway, see history”.)

Ok, so maybe you just bump up your labor rate a little bit instead of charging for shop supplies. What’s wrong with that?

• If you have techs that are on a “percentage split” pay system, do they need to get a raise this month because zipties were expensive last month? If a new nut and bolt guy comes in and saves you money, isn’t it impossible to give your customers a price break on shop supplies now? That’ll show up on your techs’ paychecks!
• Is it getting a little pricey to order new labor rate signs for the lobby every time there’s a fluctuation in materials usage or pricing?
• The other 3 shops on the street don’t bury their shop supplies cost in their labor rate; they’re billing separately for materials like everyone else. Does your new combined hourly rate seem uncompetitive when customers see your one big number?
• Does a customer whose BMW needs a bunch of programming, coding, and calibration need to pay a lot of money towards shop supplies? Doesn’t a quick little Ecotec valve cover job use way more supplies that the huge BMW software job?
• If the state tax man asks why you don’t pay taxes to Auveco/Kent/Wurth, how are you gonna claim a resale exemption if you didn’t bill out any supplies? Now you have to pay sales tax on your supply bills. Sweet.

Now of course this is not to say that the lazy way that most shops “bill for shop supplies” is brilliant or is the most transparent business practice. The shop supplies should have some sort of correlation to what’s actually used

If you actually have supplies, I'm all for it.

Rationed rags, 1 box of gloves a month, buy your own sure-shot for brake clean (cans need sold per ticket), no/poor hardware with no metric. I've been in the biz over a decade- actually got a shop to order a bottle of locktite for me last time I needed one. I buy the helicoil kits, hub cleaning discs, my own chemicals..... hell I worked somewhere where if you needed RTV for an oil pan that was on YOU to buy it.


I supply as a W2 employee nearly all the metric hardware. That's ********. And that's why I don't like shop supply charges. Because I don't have any shop supplies. I haven't seen too many shops with any shop supplies.


If you have shop supplies, the system is reasonable. I only work at places with a $35 per ticket shop supply cap but barely any shop supplies.

 

[rust in the eye]

No, they’re not. The automakers charge the dealers and you have to reimburse the dealer if you don’t provide a core. This is standard on engines, transmissions, wheels, bumper covers, all sorts of things. You’ve never heard of a core?

Makers don't apply a core charge to cats. Skeezy shops might.
Buy a catalyst from the dealer parts dept. and no core charge, unless they are THAT sleazy which ain't out of the realm of possibility.
Core charges are for items that get re-manufactured. Cats get scrapped and as we all know they are valuable.
Exhaust shops make off with cores that are worth more than the POS aftermarket junk they install every day.

 

[rust in the eye]

If you actually have supplies, I'm all for it.

Rationed rags, 1 box of gloves a month, buy your own sure-shot for brake clean (cans need sold per ticket), no/poor hardware with no metric. I've been in the biz over a decade- actually got a shop to order a bottle of locktite for me last time I needed one. I buy the helicoil kits, hub cleaning discs, my own chemicals..... hell I worked somewhere where if you needed RTV for an oil pan that was on YOU to buy it.


I supply as a W2 employee nearly all the metric hardware. That's ********. And that's why I don't like shop supply charges. Because I don't have any shop supplies. I haven't seen too many shops with any shop supplies.


If you have shop supplies, the system is reasonable. I only work at places with a $35 per ticket shop supply cap but barely any shop supplies.

I see their point regarding brakleen. Some guys use this in excess, in lieu of the parts washer. Bad practice for lots of reasons.
Don't you have an oil change ***** to wash parts? EDIT: clearly not since the cheap F you work for won't supply gloves, RTV, Loctite, etc.
Who DO you work for?

 

[rust in the eye]

yup those who keep saying shop supplies charges are bogus, don't have to run the business. They don't see what it actually costs. Just because I pay the employee $25/hr doesn't mean it costs me $25 per hour. In actuality, by time I pay insurance and everything else that goes with it, it's closer to $32/hr just as an example of course. A lot of folks don't know it but dealerships are often charged money per employee that doesn't have a certification. I'm "gold" certified, zero charge. Before I got the gold, it was $310/mo that the boss had to eat. That's why they push getting certifications and such. Place I used to work for was over $500/mo. Getting the certs meant driving across the country for a 2 or 3 week class in some cases. Techs have a life too and that kind of stuff can be a real burden. "They get paid to travel and party for a couple weeks"...yeah right. It's still work, away from family, friends, etc. often in a boring classroom for 7 or 8 hours. Shop I used to work for was turning between $900,000 and $970,000 a month, depending on how much business there was, so $500 was no big deal, but the boss still hounded us to get it done. He liked to nickle and dime everything though.

Supplies. Shop rags, fluid retention, pay the reclamation company to dispose of retention mats, used oil, pay the battery people to take Lithium batteries (that's a big cost on it's own which people never want to pay...currently $6 per pound and should come down soon), trash bags, trash containers, markers, computers, air conditioner, fans, tools that dealer provides (which is a rarity these days), the many things that people take for granted, and say "well that's just about $1, ain't hard to eat $1 when you make $1,000,000 a year is it". $1 for each R/O in a years' time adds up.

It's all OVERHEAD, no different than paying your rent and heating bill. What about office supplies? A charge for that? That paper invoice costs money too and the service writer needs a pen. Do your mechanics ever take a dump? Customers ought to pay for that paper too, no? I've seen explanations for "shop supplies" that include uniforms. Who gives a F what the guy wears? You want your guys to look a certain way(professional) that's on you. BEING professional is also on the shop owner.
You can try to cull any item out of your overhead and make a charge for it, maybe all of them but then you'll need a separate person to do all this figuring so yet another charge.
Every shop owner knows what his overhead is(or ought to) and should be able to earn(earn being the operative word) a fair profit. When things aren't to his liking and he want's more this is a lazy way grab some unearned cash. Akin to the recent fad of adding fees on restaurant tabs.

 

[rust in the eye]

I work on farm equipment often. After dealing with some of the messes I've come across, I'm not too tore up about shop or cleaning supplies. If I have to go through a case of paper towels, brake cleaner, and an hour of power washing, I'm charging for it. Maybe it'll give people incentive to clean their equipment a little before bringing it to me. I can work on as much equipment as I like since dealerships are months behind and people don't mind my pricing.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I'll bet that you don't charge the guy with clean equipment though.

 

[rust in the eye]

Recycling fees
Ever notice that many(all?) quicky lube shops charge customers a fee for recycling waste oil yet are happy as a clam to take in waste oil in containers from DIYers?
Gee, how do you think that's possible? Maybe the fellow that buys their waste oil could explain.

 

[428PI]

Every shop owner knows what his overhead is(or ought to) and should be able to earn(earn being the operative word) a fair profit. When things aren't to his liking and he want's more this is a lazy way grab some unearned cash. Akin to the recent fad of adding fees on restaurant tabs.

Shop supplies started getting added to tickets when trainers in the industry were trying to make shops happy they hired them to turn their business's around. The trainers had to somehow show that they were worth the consulting fee. About the same time mechanic's wages hit a plateau.

 

[cannuck]

My days in retail auto are long behind, but I do clearly remember what was considered fair for markup = 35%. Similarly, our guidelines (provided by VW Canada) for labour was a mechanic should get about 45-50% (with benefits that were small in those days) of the door rate. We got something like 80% of door rate for warranty work. Today my main customer is industrial, and in that world markup of parts that just pass through is 10% (but some of those fairly large $$ and others only a few bux).

When I take my wife's Audi in for warranty work, I look at the posted $185 labour rate and laugh out loud. That's about all we get for an engineer in the industrial electric business.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I see their point regarding brakleen. Some guys use this in excess, in lieu of the parts washer. Bad practice for lots of reasons.
Don't you have an oil change ***** to wash parts? EDIT: clearly not since the cheap F you work for won't supply gloves, RTV, Loctite, etc.
Who DO you work for?

Management should manage their employees and deal with the waste. Cut the nose to spite the face.

We do not have a parts washer. Last I saw a working one was about 10 years ago. Pay for fluid? Muh gross profit. Things break, are never repaired. Because "muh gross profits" "muh month" "muh quarter". Better to spend thousands tomorrow than hundreds today.

Clean it with acetone and a rag. One of your rationed rags. My preference is to pull the plastic in the engine bay and below and douse with brake clean from the sure-shot. Not a huge issue as my customer base typically ignores all but the most severe fluid leaks. Until the odor/fumes become unbearable to drive the car, even on reciric, the BMW valve cover goes unchanged.



I've worked in chain stores and moonlighted in indys. I 100% will charge extra for fracking trucks, oil pukers, etc.

Recycling fees
Ever notice that many(all?) quicky lube shops charge customers a fee for recycling waste oil yet are happy as a clam to take in waste oil in containers from DIYers?
Gee, how do you think that's possible? Maybe the fellow that buys their waste oil could explain.

Depends on the market. Sometimes you have to pay to remove it, other times when oil is high it's worth something. I'm fine to have people bring used oil as it's easier than dealing with it when they dump it down a storm drain. Same deal as scrap tires. Somebody cleans out a crawl space and brings in a 1970s tire, just take it off their hands rather than pay to get it cleaned off the side of the road or a river.

Next door the guy who managed a jiffy lube, his bonus often hinged on the price of oil. When the price was high, we would bucket used oil to our shop to run the oil heater. Kept it a cozy barely-60F in there.

 

[junkyardwarrior]

It's all OVERHEAD, no different than paying your rent and heating bill. What about office supplies? A charge for that? That paper invoice costs money too and the service writer needs a pen. Do your mechanics ever take a dump? Customers ought to pay for that paper too, no? I've seen explanations for "shop supplies" that include uniforms. Who gives a F what the guy wears? You want your guys to look a certain way(professional) that's on you. BEING professional is also on the shop owner.
You can try to cull any item out of your overhead and make a charge for it, maybe all of them but then you'll need a separate person to do all this figuring so yet another charge.
Every shop owner knows what his overhead is(or ought to) and should be able to earn(earn being the operative word) a fair profit. When things aren't to his liking and he want's more this is a lazy way grab some unearned cash. Akin to the recent fad of adding fees on restaurant tabs.

so as I understand it, you're saying that the business should eat all overhead?

 

[cannuck]

Management should manage their employees and deal with the waste. Cut the nose to spite the face.

Next door the guy who managed a jiffy lube, his bonus often hinged on the price of oil. When the price was high, we would bucket used oil to our shop to run the oil heater. Kept it a cozy barely-60F in there.

In the '70s I ran a small dealership in a very cold place. What used to bug my *** was we heated, insured, equipped, etc, the workshop for 168 hours every week, but only got 40-odd hours of billable work from it. 75% of the time it was nothing but cost (and in the winter a HUGE cost). Show room of course a different deal as we were open closer to 60 hours a week (yeah, big improvement, just over 30% utilization of facilities!!)

Our guys always told me they wanted more time for outdoor activities (in the North a 40 hour work week meant you enjoyed the few hours of daylight only on weekends) so when the local GM store went T/U and GM asked if we would do their warranty work I jumped on the opportunity. We had the choice of two shifts of the same hours for day and new group of mechanics and support at night, but that meant all day jobs had to be finished and/or cleared out each shift, so I came up with a new 3 day x 12 hours work week. That way the GM guys had days Thurs, Fri, Sat and our VW/AMC/Jeep guys had Mon-Wed. With some inevitable OT and overlap, the shop facilities were now working 50% of capacity and I felt I had done something worthwhile. That went on for several months while GM tried to romance me into becoming their new dealer, and there was a constant recognition that one fine day half of the staff was going to go to a new dealership. What was surprising is our long term staff that was so pumped about having 4 day weekends every week were starting to ***** about spending too much money on their too much time off!

It's all a delicate balancing act, but in general, most businesses waste an astronomical amount of time./money/space sitting empty and those costs inevitably pass directly along to the consumer.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

so as I understand it, you're saying that the business should eat all overhead?

I don't think that's his point. As stated earlier, people are generally much happier paying a "job cost" type invoice than itemized. The end customer is paying for all the shop supplies no matter how you bill them.

A restaurant doesn't charge extra for cleaning materials, its just cooked into the price. Snap on doesn't have a line item on a sale of sockets for PPE, although they're certainly buying it for Kenosha.

I do understand in certain areas, shops cannot legally write job-cost estimates and have to have parts and labor.


I'm just salty because I don't have shop supplies. LOL

 

[2ndGearRubber]

My days in retail auto are long behind, but I do clearly remember what was considered fair for markup = 35%. Similarly, our guidelines (provided by VW Canada) for labour was a mechanic should get about 45-50% (with benefits that were small in those days) of the door rate. We got something like 80% of door rate for warranty work. Today my main customer is industrial, and in that world markup of parts that just pass through is 10% (but some of those fairly large $$ and others only a few bux).

When I take my wife's Audi in for warranty work, I look at the posted $185 labour rate and laugh out loud. That's about all we get for an engineer in the industrial electric business.

Which would you rather do though, industrial electrical or warranty work on Audi?

 

[cannuck]

Which would you rather do though, industrial electrical or warranty work on Audi?

That's a really good question. Believe it or not, the industrial (high voltage for us) stuff is really hard to make good money in. Over the years, we have trained and given experience to what is today dozens of other companies that are now our competitors (I say "OUR" but I am now just a contractor to that company as my former JV partners sold out years ago and the new owners asked my to help them along). Those competitors being much, much smaller than the original means some have nothing but a few pickups, a rented office and rented equipment for overheads - so they bid in cheap. I am constantly shocked that utilities and large resource companies will often go with the cheaper solution rather than shell out for the best solution.....and you wonder why your lights go out>?? In the car biz I used to enjoy service, repair, restos greatly, but that marketplace has changed so much I really don't want to be anywhere near retail.

So, my answer is neither. I am going back to manufacturing where I can control the design, price, support, etc. If things go right or wrong I then have nobody but myself to blame.

 

[rust in the eye]

so as I understand it, you're saying that the business should eat all overhead?

Overhead is the cost of doing business, so yes.

 

[rust in the eye]

Which would you rather do though, industrial electrical or warranty work on Audi?

Venereal disease is preferable to working on Audis.

 

[toolenthusiast]

Overhead is the cost of doing business, so yes.

… and shop supplies are NOT Cost of Doing Business, they’re Cost of Goods Sold. Anyone who took a flippin’ high school accounting class knows that, ffs.

 

[ctandc72]

Which would you rather do though, industrial electrical or warranty work on Audi?

Wasn't that the reason the Car Lease was invented? Audi?

 

[toolenthusiast]

If you actually have supplies, I'm all for it.

Rationed rags, 1 box of gloves a month, buy your own sure-shot for brake clean (cans need sold per ticket), no/poor hardware with no metric. I've been in the biz over a decade- actually got a shop to order a bottle of locktite for me last time I needed one. I buy the helicoil kits, hub cleaning discs, my own chemicals..... hell I worked somewhere where if you needed RTV for an oil pan that was on YOU to buy it.


I supply as a W2 employee nearly all the metric hardware. That's ********. And that's why I don't like shop supply charges. Because I don't have any shop supplies. I haven't seen too many shops with any shop supplies.


If you have shop supplies, the system is reasonable. I only work at places with a $35 per ticket shop supply cap but barely any shop supplies.

Dude my heart goes out to you and your coworkers. I can’t even imagine. I know that people on the internet throw this advice around lightly, but you’ve really gotta get outta there. Either way you should probably speak to an employment attorney. I mean, if you accidentally grab a grade 8.8 bolt from your stash instead of 10.9 or 12.9, who’s gonna get sued when the car falls apart? The answer is probably that you and the shop will both go through a lengthy legal fight and the shop will end up being responsible but not before your life gets ruined.

Make a LinkedIn, get on Indeed, start talking to acquaintances in the industry, even start talking to the employees at the parts stores; they know who’s hiring and which places are decent.

Ffs if someone told me I had to provide my own helicoil I would tell them to just order a new cylinder head instead, right? I mean I spend hundreds of dollars a month just on gatorade for my people, not to mention lunches and supplies and PPE? ****! I hate your boss

 

[rust in the eye]

… and shop supplies are NOT Cost of Doing Business, they’re Cost of Goods Sold. Anyone who took a flippin’ high school accounting class knows that, ffs.

The invoices(if they explain at all) will tell you it is to recover the cost(and then some) of CONSUMABLES. Things consumed in the course of doing business are.............
over and out

 

[rust in the eye]

Dude my heart goes out to you and your coworkers. I can’t even imagine. I know that people on the internet throw this advice around lightly, but you’ve really gotta get outta there. Either way you should probably speak to an employment attorney. I mean, if you accidentally grab a grade 8.8 bolt from your stash instead of 10.9 or 12.9, who’s gonna get sued when the car falls apart? The answer is probably that you and the shop will both go through a lengthy legal fight and the shop will end up being responsible but not before your life gets ruined.

Make a LinkedIn, get on Indeed, start talking to acquaintances in the industry, even start talking to the employees at the parts stores; they know who’s hiring and which places are decent.

Ffs if someone told me I had to provide my own helicoil I would tell them to just order a new cylinder head instead, right? I mean I spend hundreds of dollars a month just on gatorade for my people, not to mention lunches and supplies and PPE? ****! I hate your boss

Agreed, this ain't somebody that values his employees.
Sounds like a franchise undercar shop from here

 

[toolenthusiast]

The invoices(if they explain at all) will tell you it is to recover the cost(and then some) of CONSUMABLES. Things consumed in the course of doing business are.............
over and out

Cost of Doing Business is an outdated way of saying Fixed Costs. COGS is the old way to say Variable Costs.

Are supplies fixed, or variable? If zero cars get worked on today, how much brake cleaner will we use? If zero cars come in tomorrow, how much do I save on real estate tax?

 

[JesSharTucker]

Good thing nobody has mentioed the increase of cost to deliever various parts & tools all over the country.

 

[InjectorService]

I think this thread can easily be summed up into 2 groups.

1. People that know how shops work, and understand the expenses associated.

2. People that don't understand how shops work, and feel victimized when they receive a bill.

 

[toolenthusiast]

I think this thread can easily be summed up into 2 groups.

1. People that know how shops work, and understand the expenses associated.

2. People that don't understand how shops work, and feel victimized when they receive a bill.

 

[Jim greengo]

Well like I tell people when they complain about what I charge for parts I carry on my truck: those parts are on my truck for my conveniance,not theirs.
If you want to charge you labor for my time to go get a part everytime I need something and bring it back to the job I can do that.
Or you can just pay what I want for the part that's on the truck.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Dude my heart goes out to you and your coworkers. I can’t even imagine. I know that people on the internet throw this advice around lightly, but you’ve really gotta get outta there. Either way you should probably speak to an employment attorney. I mean, if you accidentally grab a grade 8.8 bolt from your stash instead of 10.9 or 12.9, who’s gonna get sued when the car falls apart? The answer is probably that you and the shop will both go through a lengthy legal fight and the shop will end up being responsible but not before your life gets ruined.

Make a LinkedIn, get on Indeed, start talking to acquaintances in the industry, even start talking to the employees at the parts stores; they know who’s hiring and which places are decent.

Ffs if someone told me I had to provide my own helicoil I would tell them to just order a new cylinder head instead, right? I mean I spend hundreds of dollars a month just on gatorade for my people, not to mention lunches and supplies and PPE? ****! I hate your boss

Agreed, this ain't somebody that values his employees.
Sounds like a franchise undercar shop from here

I make over 2X the median income in my area. Pay is IMO great, with decent benefits - the ownership is simply blind to what it actually costs and takes to run the business. Drain plug crush washers? I have NEVER, EVER, seen or heard of a shop where they're supplied. Why would the shop supply them? I buy my own, use a torque wrench, and if the threads fall out I'll gladly tell the shop to get fucked when they try to scam me into doing an oil pan for no pay. I'm not afraid of having a screaming match if need be if someone at the front desk tries to steal from me either. Thus, because I'm a jerk, people generally don't **** with my money and I get paid for the work I do. Chain stores pay a bit better locally than dealers IF you don't have major competition within the shop, or upper management trying to starve you. "Oh, 2GR has made X this week? Oil changes only then, all the work goes to someone else to even it out." I've consistently driven out competition, primarily based on competence, tooling, and a complete refusal to fix their mistakes for free.


I'm currently laptop shopping for a new unit for my oscilloscope, and to bypass their firewall to order parts. They have no scan tools, no solder, no shrink wrap, nor timing tools. Part of their issue is ignorance on the part of management above what exists within the shop. Some of them are appreciative of my work, others are IMO insulting and demeaning. Which is fine, I don't think much of them either.


IDK, you want to wait with a dead bay for 2 days while Autozone grabs a helicoil kit? That'll cost you a lot more than buying a kit on amazon and keeping it in your box. No roloc discs? You realize you're re-doing that 4 tire mount balance for free next week when all 4 tires are leaking, right? Better stash some in your box when you can or buy your own for when they run low. It's like manifold studs, I ain't got time to piss and moan with the customer about variable rate labor, playing phone tag, bay is *******, etc. Weld them out, chase the threads, ship it.




I follow ASOG and similar industry groups. The "good shops" which are run properly and respect their clientele are not the norm.


I decided I am drawing the line in the sand, and not purchasing a J2534 interface as a W2 employee. Number of module failures keeps rising, they ain't buying one, oh well. This is simply the standard of shops in 2023. Dealer guys buy their own scan tools too. Toyota dealer has 12 techs, 2 techstreams, and one is broke. Guess you can starve or buy one.


EDIT: And I'm fully aware all of this is absurd. Shop down the road I'm not even sure has lights inside the building. Labor rate is 50% of ours though.

 

[Wrench97]

I make over 2X the median income in my area. Pay is IMO great, with decent benefits - the ownership is simply blind to what it actually costs and takes to run the business. Drain plug crush washers? I have NEVER, EVER, seen or heard of a shop where they're supplied. Why would the shop supply them? I buy my own, use a torque wrench, and if the threads fall out I'll gladly tell the shop to get fucked when they try to scam me into doing an oil pan for no pay. I'm not afraid of having a screaming match if need be if someone at the front desk tries to steal from me either. Thus, because I'm a jerk, people generally don't **** with my money and I get paid for the work I do. Chain stores pay a bit better locally than dealers IF you don't have major competition within the shop, or upper management trying to starve you. "Oh, 2GR has made X this week? Oil changes only then, all the work goes to someone else to even it out." I've consistently driven out competition, primarily based on competence, tooling, and a complete refusal to fix their mistakes for free.


I'm currently laptop shopping for a new unit for my oscilloscope, and to bypass their firewall to order parts. They have no scan tools, no solder, no shrink wrap, nor timing tools. Part of their issue is ignorance on the part of management above what exists within the shop. Some of them are appreciative of my work, others are IMO insulting and demeaning. Which is fine, I don't think much of them either.


IDK, you want to wait with a dead bay for 2 days while Autozone grabs a helicoil kit? That'll cost you a lot more than buying a kit on amazon and keeping it in your box. No roloc discs? You realize you're re-doing that 4 tire mount balance for free next week when all 4 tires are leaking, right? Better stash some in your box when you can or buy your own for when they run low. It's like manifold studs, I ain't got time to piss and moan with the customer about variable rate labor, playing phone tag, bay is *******, etc. Weld them out, chase the threads, ship it.




I follow ASOG and similar industry groups. The "good shops" which are run properly and respect their clientele are not the norm.


I decided I am drawing the line in the sand, and not purchasing a J2534 interface as a W2 employee. Number of module failures keeps rising, they ain't buying one, oh well. This is simply the standard of shops in 2023. Dealer guys buy their own scan tools too. Toyota dealer has 12 techs, 2 techstreams, and one is broke. Guess you can starve or buy one.


EDIT: And I'm fully aware all of this is absurd. Shop down the road I'm not even sure has lights inside the building. Labor rate is 50% of ours though.

I know of a shop that has a dirt floor............................guess you don't have to worry about cleaning up that oil spill.............

When I worked at the fleet shop and the exhaust aftertreatment issues started in 08-09 we went to the big shop in Carlisle for training. I was standing there with the Volvo rep and looked around and noticed 7 techs from the Carlisle shop standing there waiting for the 1 laptop they had for use to scan/diag the trucks...........Garage manger said this is going to get real expensive real quick............................a real shame it was all down hill after that.

 

[unslow1]

Wasn't that the reason the Car Lease was invented? Audi?

They are the reason for the saying "Never own a German car out of warranty". Anybody who has never seen the timing chains on an Audi should Google it.

 

[rust in the eye]

I make over 2X the median income in my area. Pay is IMO great, with decent benefits - the ownership is simply blind to what it actually costs and takes to run the business. Drain plug crush washers? I have NEVER, EVER, seen or heard of a shop where they're supplied. Why would the shop supply them? I buy my own, use a torque wrench, and if the threads fall out I'll gladly tell the shop to get fucked when they try to scam me into doing an oil pan for no pay. I'm not afraid of having a screaming match if need be if someone at the front desk tries to steal from me either. Thus, because I'm a jerk, people generally don't **** with my money and I get paid for the work I do. Chain stores pay a bit better locally than dealers IF you don't have major competition within the shop, or upper management trying to starve you. "Oh, 2GR has made X this week? Oil changes only then, all the work goes to someone else to even it out." I've consistently driven out competition, primarily based on competence, tooling, and a complete refusal to fix their mistakes for free.


I'm currently laptop shopping for a new unit for my oscilloscope, and to bypass their firewall to order parts. They have no scan tools, no solder, no shrink wrap, nor timing tools. Part of their issue is ignorance on the part of management above what exists within the shop. Some of them are appreciative of my work, others are IMO insulting and demeaning. Which is fine, I don't think much of them either.


IDK, you want to wait with a dead bay for 2 days while Autozone grabs a helicoil kit? That'll cost you a lot more than buying a kit on amazon and keeping it in your box. No roloc discs? You realize you're re-doing that 4 tire mount balance for free next week when all 4 tires are leaking, right? Better stash some in your box when you can or buy your own for when they run low. It's like manifold studs, I ain't got time to piss and moan with the customer about variable rate labor, playing phone tag, bay is *******, etc. Weld them out, chase the threads, ship it.




I follow ASOG and similar industry groups. The "good shops" which are run properly and respect their clientele are not the norm.


I decided I am drawing the line in the sand, and not purchasing a J2534 interface as a W2 employee. Number of module failures keeps rising, they ain't buying one, oh well. This is simply the standard of shops in 2023. Dealer guys buy their own scan tools too. Toyota dealer has 12 techs, 2 techstreams, and one is broke. Guess you can starve or buy one.


EDIT: And I'm fully aware all of this is absurd. Shop down the road I'm not even sure has lights inside the building. Labor rate is 50% of ours though.

So, you pay out of pocket for the consumables your shop is charging the customer.
You clearly have better ethics than your employer.
At least you can sleep well.