Reasonable Parts Markup?

[toolenthusiast]

I make over 2X the median income in my area. Pay is IMO great, with decent benefits - the ownership is simply blind to what it actually costs and takes to run the business. Drain plug crush washers? I have NEVER, EVER, seen or heard of a shop where they're supplied. Why would the shop supply them? I buy my own, use a torque wrench, and if the threads fall out I'll gladly tell the shop to get fucked when they try to scam me into doing an oil pan for no pay. I'm not afraid of having a screaming match if need be if someone at the front desk tries to steal from me either. Thus, because I'm a jerk, people generally don't **** with my money and I get paid for the work I do. Chain stores pay a bit better locally than dealers IF you don't have major competition within the shop, or upper management trying to starve you. "Oh, 2GR has made X this week? Oil changes only then, all the work goes to someone else to even it out." I've consistently driven out competition, primarily based on competence, tooling, and a complete refusal to fix their mistakes for free.


I'm currently laptop shopping for a new unit for my oscilloscope, and to bypass their firewall to order parts. They have no scan tools, no solder, no shrink wrap, nor timing tools. Part of their issue is ignorance on the part of management above what exists within the shop. Some of them are appreciative of my work, others are IMO insulting and demeaning. Which is fine, I don't think much of them either.


IDK, you want to wait with a dead bay for 2 days while Autozone grabs a helicoil kit? That'll cost you a lot more than buying a kit on amazon and keeping it in your box. No roloc discs? You realize you're re-doing that 4 tire mount balance for free next week when all 4 tires are leaking, right? Better stash some in your box when you can or buy your own for when they run low. It's like manifold studs, I ain't got time to piss and moan with the customer about variable rate labor, playing phone tag, bay is *******, etc. Weld them out, chase the threads, ship it.




I follow ASOG and similar industry groups. The "good shops" which are run properly and respect their clientele are not the norm.


I decided I am drawing the line in the sand, and not purchasing a J2534 interface as a W2 employee. Number of module failures keeps rising, they ain't buying one, oh well. This is simply the standard of shops in 2023. Dealer guys buy their own scan tools too. Toyota dealer has 12 techs, 2 techstreams, and one is broke. Guess you can starve or buy one.


EDIT: And I'm fully aware all of this is absurd. Shop down the road I'm not even sure has lights inside the building. Labor rate is 50% of ours though.

I’m totally with you on avoiding comebacks and trying to beat the clock on FRH. And I do understand what you’re saying about overall good pay. Granted, I’m outside your shop looking in. Maybe you’re not being enough of a “jerk”? Like, the next time a car comes in with rim leak just play dumb and ask the office where the rolocs are? Tell them you forgot your abrasives at home so the shop will have to get some? Tell them that you can’t grind the rims down if they don’t have consumables? Give them a link to the OEM position statement saying that you aren’t allowed to grind on wheels and recommend that they sell a set of wheels to go with those tires? (I can get you copies of the position statements against wheel repair )

 

[2ndGearRubber]

They are the reason for the saying "Never own a German car out of warranty". Anybody who has never seen the timing chains on an Audi should Google it.

Most models are the same chains as a VW. The S series performance cars can be pretty silly to work on though.

So, you pay out of pocket for the consumables your shop is charging the customer.
You clearly have better ethics than your employer.
At least you can sleep well.

Sometimes doing the right thing is what matters most.

I won't say I don't benefit from protecting myself like this, but as a professional we're supposed to adhere to a standard. Now ya see why I think shop supplies are BS. Because I'm buying half of them.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I’m totally with you on avoiding comebacks and trying to beat the clock on FRH. And I do understand what you’re saying about overall good pay. Granted, I’m outside your shop looking in. Maybe you’re not being enough of a “jerk”? Like, the next time a car comes in with rim leak just play dumb and ask the office where the rolocs are? Tell them you forgot your abrasives at home so the shop will have to get some? Tell them that you can’t grind the rims down if they don’t have consumables? Give them a link to the OEM position statement saying that you aren’t allowed to grind on wheels and recommend that they sell a set of wheels to go with those tires? (I can get you copies of the position statements against wheel repair )

I'd bet the OEMs don't like me painting the inside with self etching primer to fix their casting porosity issues either!

EDIT: Usually some poor waiter customer gets stuck waiting 90min for the parts store to bring down a box. Luckily for me I don't do much tire stuff at all as it isn't a productive use of my time.

 

[garfunkle24]

Drain plug crush washers? I have NEVER, EVER, seen or heard of a shop where they're supplied. Why would the shop supply them?

Why wouldn't they? It's a part that needs replacing, just like the filter.

I get what you're saying about principle vs picking your battles when you have it pretty good there but..... **** that. I don't buy loctite. I don't buy hardware. Anything at all consumable including drill bits and burrs are for the boss to buy.

But also I'm an employee not a W2 and in Canada and work on heavy equipment so not EXACTLY the same situation lol

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Why wouldn't they? It's a part that needs replacing, just like the filter.

I get what you're saying about principle vs picking your battles when you have it pretty good there but..... **** that. I don't buy loctite. I don't buy hardware. Anything at all consumable including drill bits and burrs are for the boss to buy.

But also I'm an employee not a W2 and in Canada and work on heavy equipment so not EXACTLY the same situation lol

Most people in the US are W2 employees. I just specify that because some people on here get the impression I own this shop.

It's my trans jack, my engine crane, my 3 scan tools, my oscilloscope, my laptop, my helicoils, my cutting oil, my assembly lube, my electrical tape, my solder, my washers, my (mostly reclaimed) hardware, my extension cords, my lock tite (less this current bottle). I buy my own welder tips for the MIG, ya know the ones that are 50 cents? I swap mine on, do the job, then put the mostly melted and fucked up one back on for the rest of the staff. Bits and burrs? I got $1000+ worth of that. Timing job needs done? I'm declining the job or buying the tools out of my pocket. Had to decline a TDI a few months ago, couldn't afford to lose $100 after buying the tools on that job. I would have been paying to work on it.



Why would" they" pay for, track, and dispense a crush washer when not doing so is an option? They don't respect the client nor their vehicle, so they don't care. They are, IMO, acting in an immoral and inappropriate way. We are supposed to be trusted to do the right thing for the customer, not the cheap thing, profitable thing, or what they want to hear. We ain't putting a timing belt on this honda with no floor left or rebuilding the jeep front end where the steering box is flapping on what's left of the frame. Clients are supposed to trust us to do the right thing. And if we do that, and structure our billing properly for the work that we do, we can produce a profit in a consistent and sustainable way. That's what we're supposed to be doing anyways.


Next people will think shops know what VW 508 00 is. "Ain't that synthetic?". It's a scary world out here my friends.

 

[garfunkle24]

If nothing else you've made me better appreciate what I have! Don't get me wrong, my bosses can be a bit tight with the shop tools and certain supplies but not terribly so and good work is appreciated here.

 

[RegeSullivan]

In the 80's I did some basic accounting for a shop. Parts delivered from local auto part suppliers were marked up 100%. Parts we stocked (mostly brake parts, bearings, thermostats hoses and belts and such were 300-500%. Bulk wire, hose/tubing off a roll were 1000% rounded up per foot. I always thought those markups were high until I got in the Durable Medical Equipment and Med Surg business. We would sell oxygen masks that cost about $4 a gross for $7ish to $12ish depending on the customer's insurance or lack there of. Now that's markup!

 

[RPH]

Most people in the US are W2 employees. I just specify that because some people on here get the impression I own this shop.

It's my trans jack, my engine crane, my 3 scan tools, my oscilloscope, my laptop, my helicoils, my cutting oil, my assembly lube, my electrical tape, my solder, my washers, my (mostly reclaimed) hardware, my extension cords, my lock tite (less this current bottle). I buy my own welder tips for the MIG, ya know the ones that are 50 cents? I swap mine on, do the job, then put the mostly melted and fucked up one back on for the rest of the staff. Bits and burrs? I got $1000+ worth of that. Timing job needs done? I'm declining the job or buying the tools out of my pocket. Had to decline a TDI a few months ago, couldn't afford to lose $100 after buying the tools on that job. I would have been paying to work on it.



Why would" they" pay for, track, and dispense a crush washer when not doing so is an option? They don't respect the client nor their vehicle, so they don't care. They are, IMO, acting in an immoral and inappropriate way. We are supposed to be trusted to do the right thing for the customer, not the cheap thing, profitable thing, or what they want to hear. We ain't putting a timing belt on this honda with no floor left or rebuilding the jeep front end where the steering box is flapping on what's left of the frame. Clients are supposed to trust us to do the right thing. And if we do that, and structure our billing properly for the work that we do, we can produce a profit in a consistent and sustainable way. That's what we're supposed to be doing anyways.

This is the problem for many professions out in the world. It’s not just blur collar workers but white color professionals. I call it ethics. Doing the right thing even if nobody is watching you. We are paid to provide professional judgments that are accurate to begin with. Not a creeping bill as we dig into it. Dig in first , then quote. My place had a two hour diagnostic fee minimum. Problem found or not but you have the option to pull it at that point. These were board level components being repaired. Most fix as new was really expensive . If I had to replace a resistor or component that didn’t have price in computer. Then the cost was $5.00 an item. I explained why the resistor was $5 each. I had the exact unit needed to my inventory. Or he could send his own while the clock ticks. This was industrial equipment.

 

[cannuck]

Just so the other kind of shop can be shown: My first actual mechanic's job was working as summer relief for a major railroad in its truck division. Highest hourly paying mech jobs in Southwest MB. Shop manager not the sharpest tack in the box, but the people I worked with were extremely supportive, mature and capable. At the end of second summer they went on strike and I was told I could come on full time after the strike - but I would have to join the union. That wasn't going to happen, but before it came to a decision the local small university town VW store next to the Army base where I grew up asked if I would come over to work for them. I laughed and told them what my hourly pay rate was and they replied that they would come close, but I would never be wanting for work (and OT) and of course would never go on strike. Sold me on the spot.

The dealer partners consisted of a nice guy, young lush, son of the local Cessna dealer and member of Parliament who ran the sales side and a genuine USA automotive engineer who had married a local girl and immigrated. The shop was run to an extreme standard of excellence in work, cleanliness, scheduling, etc. When a car came in the parts/service guy would hand you a work order and all of the parts he knew the job would or might need. If he didn't have the parts, he wouldn't book it in unless just for diagnosis. We were REQUIRED to read every manual, every service letter, every parts bulletin and sign off as testament. We were paid 50% of total on VW flat rate (almost impossible to beat, but in this environment we averaged about 110%) and 50% on the clock for just being there. That way you were getting something for diagnosis and test drives (uncommon in those days), comebacks, shop cleaning or any unbooked time (of which there was seldom any). My mentor there was a South African who's brother-in-law I had fired (acting as foreman during my first month while he was on vacation) and one of the best VW mechanics on the planet - who outright promised me he would hang me up by the balls the first time he found me make any kind of mistake.

We NEVER went wanting for tools, training (I think over 2 years I had was away for at least 10 courses), information, support - nothing. Customers were treated with complete honesty and professionalism and they would let you know how much they appreciated the effort that everyone made. And, I had to keep looking over my shoulder and make damn sure I was absolutely on top of my game (Best thing an early '20s car freak hotshot could suffer).

I don't think I ever managed to run my shop at that level, but it set an example of how things should be and could be done to have happy owners, happy employees and happy customers. And the guy who cruised for my rear for two full years? We had a big blowup in my last few days when I had my first comeback. He did the teardown and accused me of putting a seal in backwards - and at the Spanish Inquisition in owner's office I pointed out to him my signature on a service letter directing it to be done that way - and his lack of having read and signed same thing after his holiday. We laughed it off once we realized how silly it was. Been best of friends for the 50 years of business, family and life that followed.

I am sure there are shops at this level of all sizes still out there. Just hope anyone who is willing to give their lives to the business these days is able to find one.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

This is the problem for many professions out in the world. It’s not just blur collar workers but white color professionals. I call it ethics. Doing the right thing even if nobody is watching you. We are paid to provide professional judgments that are accurate to begin with. Not a creeping bill as we dig into it. Dig in first , then quote. My place had a two hour diagnostic fee minimum. Problem found or not but you have the option to pull it at that point. These were board level components being repaired. Most fix as new was really expensive . If I had to replace a resistor or component that didn’t have price in computer. Then the cost was $5.00 an item. I explained why the resistor was $5 each. I had the exact unit needed to my inventory. Or he could send his own while the clock ticks. This was industrial equipment.

Yeah; a lot of people forget about that one.

I don't get paid for "no problem found", so I'm pretty quick to cut stuff loose if a problem doesn't present or we're looking at module replacement/programming.

In the 80's I did some basic accounting for a shop. Parts delivered from local auto part suppliers were marked up 100%. Parts we stocked (mostly brake parts, bearings, thermostats hoses and belts and such were 300-500%. Bulk wire, hose/tubing off a roll were 1000% rounded up per foot. I always thought those markups were high until I got in the Durable Medical Equipment and Med Surg business. We would sell oxygen masks that cost about $4 a gross for $7ish to $12ish depending on the customer's insurance or lack there of. Now that's markup!

What a lot of people don't understand, is every single business and transaction in the process to the final buyer is marking up stuff the same way.

That white-box rotor probably costs $1 to land on US soil. So even for 10+ shipping on rockauto for the cheapest option, the buyer is still paying a crazy percentage. They'd be essentially sliding the decimal point. A white box rotor shop cost is ~30 bucks, sometimes as low a $20. Street price at the store is around 40-70 bucks, shop sells at 70-100 bucks. Less % than the wholesaler made, but more $$$

Lots of businesses don't understand that either, % vs $$$. I was explaining that to our new lube tech last week. Which would you rather have, 50% of $1 or 10% of $100? Don't live and die by percentages. We don't "make" **** on tires, except we do because that $500 set of tires sold for $650 and we made $150. Mash the GP% to the sky on that radiator cap, it cost $4, you ain't making any money on that. "but it's 90% GP!!!". And they wonder why we "can't sell" OE catalytic converters. Well when you run them through the same GP% requirement as a rotor..... yeah that $1800 converter at our cost is gonna be pretty pricey. Cost on some of the subaru ones are over $2k from the dealer.

 

[junkyardwarrior]

If I had to buy all my own consumables, my effective base rate would go from $23 to about $13. Most outsiders have no idea how much money techs tie up in trying to take care of customers. No Earthly idea. Some techs, they refuse to do a job, period, if the tool they need is not supplied. Fine. They can starve. I'm not starving, but I'm also not making nearly as much as some are either. I actually enjoy taking care of customers and honestly it's that reason alone that I keep doing this. Totally honest. I like my boss and coworkers as well but it's the customers that keep me going to work every day.

For 30 some years I dealt with customers directly (not anymore, I work out back now). I hated it some days, some days tolerated it. Some days were great. In 2004 (? I think it was) I met a lady whose motorcycle was broken down. We took the shop truck/trailer, went to pick it up and while talking on the way out there, we just hit it off. We ended up dating a couple years. I'll admit that I'm an idiot for letting that one get away.

 

[rust in the eye]

If your shop bought decent oil filters instead of the crappy generic bulk ones they often come with whatever is needed to install, crush washer seal ring for canisters, etc.
I'm sure you knew that but the DIYers here might be more inclined to ask for or buy a premium filter knowing this.

 

[Wrench97]

If your shop bought decent oil filters instead of the crappy generic bulk ones they often come with whatever is needed to install, crush washer seal ring for canisters, etc.
I'm sure you knew that but the DIYers here might be more inclined to ask for or buy a premium filter knowing this.

Na your not getting the $12 cost oil filter on the oil change promotions.........................

Customers still think oil changes over $29.95 are a rip off.............................

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Na your not getting the $12 cost oil filter on the oil change promotions.........................

Customers still think oil changes over $29.95 are a rip off.............................

No reason to upgrade filters even.

I buy 1000 m14 aluminum crush washers for $70 on ebay. That's what, 7 cents per? Buy 10,000 or 5,000 and the price drops even more.


I probably have $150 of crush washers in my cabinet right now.