Reasonable Parts Markup?

[Parrothead]

TLDR most of this thread but some of you are comparing apples to oranges. There's a difference between a business that sells goods and business that sells services. A mechanic is different from an auto parts retailer because a mechanic is selling the service of repairing your car whereas the auto parts store is selling parts. A restaurant is different from a grocery store even though they involve similar goods, so trying to compare margins between the two is pointless.

If you are a business that sells a service, you should mark up your parts to cover the overhead associated with use of the such parts, but you should derive your profit from the service (labor) rather than the parts needed to provide the service.

I’ve mostly tried to stay out of this topic, but how about this comparison.

My veterinarian sells all his meds at cost, with no markup. He’s located in an expensive zip code and is one of the best veterinary doctors in the state. He does things like hydrotherapy, underwater treadmills, and stem cell treatment. If you can get the meds cheaper than he does, he recommends you do so, and additionally has no issue administering them either. Hmm...

 

[2ndGearRubber]

That's the business model then. My vet does the same, antibiotics for my critter cost about 10 bucks.

The parts markup thing in automotive existed before direct to consumer places like rockauto existed. Parts stores also changed how they sold to the public, no longer having as many tiers of pricing. Is it somewhat antiquated, sure.

On the flip side if you brought your vet tainted medicine, and it kills your pet, that's not his problem. For some reason auto repair facilities struggle to enforce that fact, and thus they generally refuse customer supplied parts and the issues that sometimes arise from them.

If the customer has an IQ above room temperature, and a bit of automotive knowledge and understanding of the liability for parts issues being on them, most places will work with you on bringing your own stuff. Same deal with performance parts. Now when Karen brings you an oxygen sensor....

 

[Leevon]

On the subject of customer supplied parts, insurance policies addresses this (not allowed) and there is case law precedent holding shops liable for accidental death and injury due to parts failure. Your insurance company will excuse themselves from your defense in this situation. Now your customer's lawyers are suing you personally instead of Federal Mogul the multi-national corporation. I have been warned about this directly by an underwriter and in writing. I have even been sued in this business over a vehicle I never even touched, with so many things to worry about I'm not willing to add risk over someone's ball joints. Even if the parts are exactly what we would install the legal trail goes the wrong way. I'm not equating this to parts markup but there is a real reason that many shops won't allow critical parts to be supplied by customers and that is #1 on my list.

I completely accept the transparency argument about parts markup. Every now and then a customer asks, and I will straight up show them our margin tabulation on their repair order, the day, week and month and how it all stacks up. Then I explain that the revenue we need to stay in business has to be itemized somewhere and that unfortunately I didn't create the industry norms but we're stuck with two line items. They always understand. But I'm anxiously waiting for some other shops to prove that they can double their labor rate, charge cost for parts and make it work. I think it would be viewed with the same level of skepticism, but I'll follow suit in a heartbeat.

What I don't accept is the argument that we should just charge less, it doesn't work that way.

 

[InjectorService]

Ill say this again.

Why does anyone care whether the parts markup is 50% or if the service rates are 50% higher. At the end of the day the dealership or shop needs to make "X" number of dollars to keep the lights on. Your going to pay it, it doesn't matter if its in parts or in labor rate, you're still going to pay for it.

"What I don't accept is the argument that we should just charge less, it doesn't work that way."

^^^ THIS. The businesses NEED to make a certain amount to stay open. The same people complaining about parts markup would be the ones that wouldn't step into the shop with the double average shop rate, even if the parts markup was 0%

The people complaining about it in this thread don't REALLY care whether its the parts or whether it's the labor marked up. All they REALLY want is CHEAPER SERVICE. Their way of justifying the cheaper service is by complaining about the parts markup.

 

[kbeefy]

And anyone that wants the job done cheaper can go to whichever of my competitors they wish. I do not cater to 'bargain hunters' even though I am one.

Work harder to make less money. Failing business model.

 

[four.cycle]

Which is what I've done.

Okay, great. So if you're doing your own work on your own vehicles, why do you care what the shops charge for labor or how much they mark up the parts?

Not everyone has that option (just like you don't have the option to grow your own food). Are you saying that because someone can't fix their own car that's justification to exploit them?

I don't care to grow my own food for a number of reasons, the primary one being that it's less expensive to simply go and buy it at the grocery store.

How is making a profit (which is the reason that businesses are in business) "exploiting" the customer?

What you're saying, and have been saying for well over a week now, is that you do not believe businesses are entitled to make a profit, or that you you should be the one to determine what that profit margin should be.

Again, if you don't like the way shops do business, you should be buying your own parts and installing them yourself. The industry isn't going to change because you're unhappy about paying the tab for getting your car fixed.

You could always call Uber, or ride the bus. Repair and maintenance costs are reduced to zeo that way.

 

[Shane6377]

Ill say this again.

Why does anyone care whether the parts markup is 50% or if the service rates are 50% higher. At the end of the day the dealership or shop needs to make "X" number of dollars to keep the lights on. Your going to pay it, it doesn't matter if its in parts or in labor rate, you're still going to pay for it.

"What I don't accept is the argument that we should just charge less, it doesn't work that way."

^^^ THIS. The businesses NEED to make a certain amount to stay open. The same people complaining about parts markup would be the ones that wouldn't step into the shop with the double average shop rate, even if the parts markup was 0%

The people complaining about it in this thread don't REALLY care whether its the parts or whether it's the labor marked up. All they REALLY want is CHEAPER SERVICE. Their way of justifying the cheaper service is by complaining about the parts markup.

The short answer to your question is that it's dishonest.

Anyone who says "don't look at the details, just pay the bottom line." is hiding something. Again I would refer you to all the consumer agencies like the BBB, AARP, Consumer Report, and news agencies warning about these kinds of practices in the auto repair industry.

Also shop rates and wages are getting really exaggerated. The average shop rate is 3 times higher than the average tech makes. It's 5 times higher than what the average lube tech makes. Wages are a shops biggest overhead and yes we all realize there are other business expenses but if you can't make a profit without charging markup on parts you're a really poor business manager.

I think you'll find most of us in this thread care about quality first. But we work hard for our money too and don't want to be ripped off or scammed either.


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[Leevon]

If you could run a fully equipped shop with nice facilities, fair wages and turn a profit without parts markup while maintaining regional average labor rates...you'd be on a beach somewhere not here.

 

[Wrench97]

Bottom line like it or not is that shops exist to sell parts and services, just like HVAC business sell A/C units for profit and appliance repair business sell parts and service for a profit. A builder also sells you material for a profit and labor for a profit it's how business works if you can do it cheaper fine stop complaining about a service you don't use/need but not everybody has the ability or desire to fix things.

 

[Taycan]

Perception. It's all about perception.

As pointed out many times in this thread, it is very easy to use the internet and look up the parts actually cost. When people see they are being charged 3 or 4 times that price, I think the natural reaction is to think they are being gouged/ripped off. It's human nature.

Personally, I would feel better about a shop that didn't mark up the price of parts above what the part could be 'normally' purchased for, and increase the labor rate instead. Or a shop could be honest and just like some of the dealerships do on new car sales, just add a line 'additional profit' (at least your being honest about it)

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Perception. It's all about perception.

As pointed out many times in this thread, it is very easy to use the internet and look up the parts actually cost. When people see they are being charged 3 or 4 times that price, I think the natural reaction is to think they are being gouged/ripped off. It's human nature.

Personally, I would feel better about a shop that didn't mark up the price of parts above what the part could be 'normally' purchased for, and increase the labor rate instead. Or a shop could be honest and just like some of the dealerships do on new car sales, just add a line 'additional profit' (at least your being honest about it)

Bingo. Most people don't realize what parts cost locally (even with volume discounts) vs. online.


One of the things we actively recommend people to supply themselves are headlight buckets, tail-light assemblies, and mirrors. Often the same brand as I can get through a shop-only vender (no public sales) is 2-3 times less than my COST on Amazon. I can buy it as a shop for $100 my cost, list is well above this, maybe 190. Amazon sells the same item for $45. Same deal with radiators, Advance sells a spectra-premium for $175, buy the same thing on ebay from spectra premium for $75.


Of course, the price of amazon is irrelevant, because I can have that part today. Not really apples to apples. Now if you can wait a day; amazon all the way. What the vender is charging is a convenience fee, to the shop, for having it on hand right now, today, ready for delivery. IIRC from a shipping standpoint, the most expensive part of the journey is the last few miles. Just getting the stuff into a warehouse or two across the country isn't hard. And every time is passes through another set of hands, those hands add cost.

 

[richfinn]

The short answer to your question is that it's dishonest.

Anyone who says "don't look at the details, just pay the bottom line." is hiding something. Again I would refer you to all the consumer agencies like the BBB, AARP, Consumer Report, and news agencies warning about these kinds of practices in the auto repair industry.

Also shop rates and wages are getting really exaggerated. The average shop rate is 3 times higher than the average tech makes. It's 5 times higher than what the average lube tech makes. Wages are a shops biggest overhead and yes we all realize there are other business expenses but if you can't make a profit without charging markup on parts you're a really poor business manager.

I think you'll find most of us in this thread care about quality first. But we work hard for our money too and don't want to be ripped off or scammed either.


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This is fairly easy, price up the parts and labour at the authorized dealer at rrp/book time and use that as your guide when shopping around independents

If they are trying to sell you OE parts at more than rrp walk away, unfortunately you will have to swallow "book time" quotes as thats how its calculated (everwhere I have ever known in 35 years of working as a tech) but you can choose which hourly labour rate you want to pay

Your biggest problem is that for diagnostic work you can only really charge for the actual time it takes, my best advice is use a specialist in that type of work, the hourly labour rate will be higher, but the fault gets located faster

 

[WittHay]

Most people could care less about parts markup or flat rate. They are okay with say $400 total cost for the brake job on the 10 year old Honda, $1200 to take down and remove the tree the neighbor has been complaining about or the $10,000 kitchen renos the wife wants. It doesnt matter how the bill is split up, the only thing that matters is the end cost.

When you go to a repair shop they are selling you parts with a warranty and installing it for a price. Its entirely up to the repair shop what they want to charge for parts. Depends on area and competition.

All a person can do is share what they know in their area not what they read about somewhere. There are 6 Snap-on dealers that cross into my area. Usually about 200 shops per dealer. Thats 1200 shops that Snap-on dealers stop at in one part of the Vancouver area. Somehow these shops stay in business without advice from the internet or changing business practices.

From my experience with commercial parts account the difference between account and walk in price is usually double or 100% markup. Places like Canadian Tire that have a repair shop as well as parts departments in house, the price is the same to a shop customer or a walk in customer.

I have never once felt that a local shop cheats their customers or sets out to deceive anyone. The exception being some car dealers are stingy on the time they give their flat rate mechanics. Not enough book time to do warranty work like changing motors. A dealer customer with a new car would not know any of this because they dont pay for warranty work

 

[four.cycle]

Not enough book time to do warranty work like changing motors.

Everybody loses on warranty R&Rs on engines. Dealer, Independent Shop, mechanic, car owner, and the rebuilder.

Was possibly the worst thing about the business.

 

[signcrafter]

I’ve mostly tried to stay out of this topic, but how about this comparison.

My veterinarian sells all his meds at cost, with no markup. He’s located in an expensive zip code and is one of the best veterinary doctors in the state. He does things like hydrotherapy, underwater treadmills, and stem cell treatment. If you can get the meds cheaper than he does, he recommends you do so, and additionally has no issue administering them either. Hmm...

So if a pet were to need surgery does he bill at 40 bucks an hour also? Point being all businesses and industries have their own way to make the money they need to in order to keep the doors open. The times I've had to take my pets to the vet they make auto mechanics look like a charity group when I get the bill. So you are saying that repair shops should adopt the same billing practices and not mark parts up but raise their labor rates? No billing practice is ever going to make 100% of your customers happy. You will always have someone complaining no matter what.

It's almost funny how some of you guys are making shops out to be the biggest scam artist of the century. Yes there are bad shops out there but they usually weed themselves out and run out of customers. But most shops aren't making millionaire money. They make enough to keep food on the table and live a decent life but are never going to be sitting at mar a lago.

But then you same people have no problem going to the doctor's office and paying whatever markup they want to put on a band aid or tylenol and pay whatever labor rate they want to charge you. Mean while the hospital is adding on every day and building new wings and doctor's offices are popping up all over new and big and fancy. Insurance companies are building new fancy high rise buildings. But every keeps going to the doctors for every little cut, scrape, or bruise without ever questioning the markups and charges. But nobody questions their markups or labor rates. But ya auto repair shops are all scam artists. LOL

 

[kythri]

What I don't accept is the argument that we should just charge less, it doesn't work that way.

I don't believe anyone has made, or is making that argument, so this is a moot point.

The people complaining about it in this thread don't REALLY care whether its the parts or whether it's the labor marked up. All they REALLY want is CHEAPER SERVICE. Their way of justifying the cheaper service is by complaining about the parts markup.

Please, do provide an example of this.

 

[jimindm]

I think most people do not even care about line items on an invoice, they only care about the bottom total price.

The OP has stated that the part did not change from one counter to the next, but why did the price go up. True the actual part did not change in any way. But everything about the part changed. Was it the right part, what kind of warranty and will a warranty ever be needed. Even down to throwing the part and the packaging away. Liability is a big one. The list goes on.

Use the beer as an example. That can of beer did not change from the time it was manufactured, to the time you opened it. The value of it did change, whether you bought it as a twelve pack and opened it in your garage or you opened it at a bar or a sporting event.

It may be easy for you to sort of wonder about that on a tie rod end, but seriously this is nothing new, and has been practiced for many years, in all businesses.

 

[InjectorService]

I don't believe anyone has made, or is making that argument, so this is a moot point.



Please, do provide an example of this.

I'm not sure how I could provide an example? That question doesn't even make sense. But I can tell from a million miles away that you are that person. And yes that comment was directed at you directly.

No matter how cheap something is or how someone bends over backwards and loses their shirt for you, you will never be happy because someone, somewhere would do it for less. If I've seen one of your type I've seen them all.

 

[neophyte]

Bingo. Most people don't realize what parts cost locally (even with volume discounts) vs. online.


One of the things we actively recommend people to supply themselves are headlight buckets, tail-light assemblies, and mirrors. Often the same brand as I can get through a shop-only vender (no public sales) is 2-3 times less than my COST on Amazon. I can buy it as a shop for $100 my cost, list is well above this, maybe 190. Amazon sells the same item for $45. Same deal with radiators, Advance sells a spectra-premium for $175, buy the same thing on ebay from spectra premium for $75.


Of course, the price of amazon is irrelevant, because I can have that part today. Not really apples to apples. Now if you can wait a day; amazon all the way. What the vender is charging is a convenience fee, to the shop, for having it on hand right now, today, ready for delivery. IIRC from a shipping standpoint, the most expensive part of the journey is the last few miles. Just getting the stuff into a warehouse or two across the country isn't hard. And every time is passes through another set of hands, those hands add cost.

Years ago, and probably still today, most manufacturers had a list retail price, and would send out a list of those retail prices to whoever asked for the list.
Legally, the manufacturer can’t force the retailer to sell at the list price, although they can contractually prohibit the retailer from publicly advertising lower prices.
This in some ways made it simple for the consumer.
Most retailers didn’t sell stuff for higher than the list price, with the possible exception of tax and shipping charges.
Many industrial vendors would knock a certain percentage off the list retail price if you were in the trade, or a frequent customer, with the percentage varying depending on how hood a customer, etc.
with the internet, it became easy to cross check prices, and the old list price + discount system went to hell, and many customers realized how much more some retailers were charging than others.

With car parts, if a repair place tells you hourly rate plus parts, unless they have a link to a parts price list, the consumer is just trusting that the place will charge them a “reasonable” price for the parts. If the customer finds out that they paid give times what Amazon is selling a part gor, they feel the repair place is price gouging.
Most people who have paid expenses and hired contractors to repair appliances, or their homes have probably gotten screwed at some point, or a bunch of points in their life, so they may no longer trust contractors or repair people.
Getting charged several times street price for a part just feels like price gouging and getting screwed over by a contractor again, whether it’s the actual case or not.

 

[InjectorService]

Years ago, and probably still today, most manufacturers had a list retail price, and would send out a list of those retail prices to whoever asked for the list.
Legally, the manufacturer can’t force the retailer to sell at the list price, although they can contractually prohibit the retailer from publicly advertising lower prices.
This in some ways made it simple for the consumer.
Most retailers didn’t sell stuff for higher than the list price, with the possible exception of tax and shipping charges.
Many industrial vendors would knock a certain percentage off the list retail price if you were in the trade, or a frequent customer, with the percentage varying depending on how hood a customer, etc.
with the internet, it became easy to cross check prices, and the old list price + discount system went to hell, and many customers realized how much more some retailers were charging than others.

With car parts, if a repair place tells you hourly rate plus parts, unless they have a link to a parts price list, the consumer is just trusting that the place will charge them a “reasonable” price for the parts. If the customer finds out that they paid give times what Amazon is selling a part gor, they feel the repair place is price gouging.
Most people who have paid expenses and hired contractors to repair appliances, or their homes have probably gotten screwed at some point, or a bunch of points in their life, so they may no longer trust contractors or repair people.
Getting charged several times street price for a part just feels like price gouging and getting screwed over by a contractor again, whether it’s the actual case or not.

So I suppose you buy every single item in your life from the absolute cheapest place on earth, and do all of your own work, never hire anyone ever?

 

[neophyte]

So I suppose you buy every single item in your life from the absolute cheapest place on earth, and do all of your own work, never hire anyone ever?

Hired a professional licensed plumber to install a furnace.
The company was recommended by a friend and also seemed to have a good reputation.
A few years later the furnace started having problems, and I realized how screwed up the installation was.
The furnace was wired with the wires just placed straight next to the screws and then the screws tightened, which is literally the textbook way not to wire connections.
Certain components that would have cost practically nothing to replace compaired to the cost of replacing the furnace, and which would have taken less than five minutes to switch out, were not replaced. Etc. etc. etc.
Doing any of these repairs after the fact will require completely emptying the radiator system, and re-soldering a bunch of connections, whereas doing them at the time might have added a couple hours to the job, which would really have been noticeable given the total cost.
As for parts markup, the plumber could simply say this or these are the parts suppliers, call them to confirm the price if you want. I’m not unreasonable, but when you hire a new plumber to fix something, and the new plumber asks why you haven’t had the thing serviced in a decade or more, and even shows you the issue, all while you’ve been standing there watching him, since he’s a new plumber you’ve never used before, it basically shows that some contractors, even well rated ones, will screw over their customers.

 

[neophyte]

I also forgot about the plumber who told my father that Delta faucets were not repairable, because they used custom washers.
I’ve literally been taking apart the same faucet model every several years to replace the washers with off the shelf repair components for the past 20 years.

 

[kythri]

I'm not sure how I could provide an example? That question doesn't even make sense.

It makes perfect sense - your argument is a strawman. Specifically, you're arguing against a point that absolutely nobody is making.

As such, I'm not surprised at your weaseling out of providing any examples.

But I can tell from a million miles away that you are that person. And yes that comment was directed at you directly.

No matter how cheap something is or how someone bends over backwards and loses their shirt for you, you will never be happy because someone, somewhere would do it for less. If I've seen one of your type I've seen them all.

And, again, this is why you need to read the thread, before contributing nonsense to it, because you're just flat wrong.

Bending over backwards? Losing their shirt? More strawmen. Did your state recently legalize marijuana?

Whatever. Thank you for playing.

 

[bob15]

I also forgot about the plumber who told my father that Delta faucets were not repairable, because they used custom washers.
I’ve literally been taking apart the same faucet model every several years to replace the washers with off the shelf repair components for the past 20 years.

Maybe those washers are really custom because I have faucets that are 15 years old and have never needed to be rebuild or have parts replaced, ever. For you to need to replace washers ever few years is wrong. Heck, my parents faucets were never taken apart in over 30 years and were only removed because the kitchen and bathrooms were remodeled.

 

[WittHay]

No matter how cheap something is or how someone bends over backwards and loses their shirt for you, you will never be happy because someone, somewhere would do it for less. If I've seen one of your type I've seen them all.

Its call it the Amazon thinking. Amazon is a great tech company. opening up a new centre in Vancouver with about 3000 new well paying jobs with office capacity for up to 10,000. Cheaper labor, university's and medicare plus open immigration from China and India up here. I am sure thousands of people in California and places like New York and Boston wont be hired or lose their jobs but who cares right, Canada is cheaper

Regarding the normal Amazon and Rock Auto. Basically old fashioned mail order with computer programs. Take away the computers all it is is trucks and hard physical work.

Amazon uses drivers employed by subcontractors employed by subsidiaries of Amazon. 12 hour days that are not done until all packages are delivered. Minimum packages per hour or the drivers get repeatedly text. People get fired or contracts cancelled if any hint of union organizing is mentioned.

Rock Auto is a computer program that tells a guy working in a parts warehouse not owned by Rock Auto what Fedex label to put on a box. Not sure if that business model is even legal in Canada because a company is being paid by Rock Auto to undercut its regular whole sales customers basically a bribe.

All is great until somebody loses their job and has to become one of those people who deliver packages for Amazon or works the graveyard shift at Fedex for minimum wages.

All I know is all this trucking sure helps Snap-on tool box sales. Every truck dealer I have been to has between 20 to 40 tool truck boxes in the shop. Other than that not sure how cheap parts helps employment in the community

 

[sberry]

Everyone was doing g such a good job till Amazon come along. I paid a most 50$ for a sink at a local store 40 years ago that I bought for 18 last week. Guy sold it with a straight face.

 

[InjectorService]

Its call it the Amazon thinking. Amazon is a great tech company. opening up a new centre in Vancouver with about 3000 new well paying jobs with office capacity for up to 10,000. Cheaper labor, university's and medicare plus open immigration from China and India up here. I am sure thousands of people in California and places like New York and Boston wont be hired or lose their jobs but who cares right, Canada is cheaper

Regarding the normal Amazon and Rock Auto. Basically old fashioned mail order with computer programs. Take away the computers all it is is trucks and hard physical work.

Amazon uses drivers employed by subcontractors employed by subsidiaries of Amazon. 12 hour days that are not done until all packages are delivered. Minimum packages per hour or the drivers get repeatedly text. People get fired or contracts cancelled if any hint of union organizing is mentioned.

Rock Auto is a computer program that tells a guy working in a parts warehouse not owned by Rock Auto what Fedex label to put on a box. Not sure if that business model is even legal in Canada because a company is being paid by Rock Auto to undercut its regular whole sales customers basically a bribe.

All is great until somebody loses their job and has to become one of those people who deliver packages for Amazon or works the graveyard shift at Fedex for minimum wages.

All I know is all this trucking sure helps Snap-on tool box sales. Every truck dealer I have been to has between 20 to 40 tool truck boxes in the shop. Other than that not sure how cheap parts helps employment in the community

Someone gets it at least.

 

[InjectorService]

I have to laugh at all these people complaining about being screwed over and firing their mechanics, plumbers, etc. Sure there are some bad companies out there, no doubt. Everyone has had a story from somewhere.

But when its a repetitive thing, I can assure you there is 1 constant. You. You ever think that everyone in business has seen a million people like you and can see you a mile away. That's why they try to squeeze you for price, and when you negotiate the price to the last penny that's why they are reluctant to help you.

You guys are your own worst enemies and won't ever get it. Can't fix stupid. I'm tired of trying.

 

[Shane6377]

I have to laugh at all these people complaining about being screwed over and firing their mechanics, plumbers, etc. Sure there are some bad companies out there, no doubt. Everyone has had a story from somewhere.



But when its a repetitive thing, I can assure you there is 1 constant. You. You ever think that everyone in business has seen a million people like you and can see you a mile away. That's why they try to squeeze you for price, and when you negotiate the price to the last penny that's why they are reluctant to help you.



You guys are your own worst enemies and won't ever get it. Can't fix stupid. I'm tired of trying.

What's laughable is your ignorance. You act like these issues are a "few bad apples" and not industry wide problems.

https://www.fraudguides.com/cars/car-repair-scams/

https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/info-2017/steer-clear-of-car-repair-ripoffs.html

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/consumer-protection/automotive-scams/car-repair-tips

https://thinkprogress.org/the-harsh-reality-of-being-an-auto-mechanic-6779cd9d4843/amp/

... and I could go on and on. I've linked several articles throughout this thread from credible sources including sources within the auto repair industry that speak to the issues. All you've ever presented was your biased opinion and cheap insults. Before you go calling others stupid maybe you better look at the facts.



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[Hiball]

I’d say it’s a probably a good idea to get a estimate prior to agreeing for service. The OP obviously trusted the service center, he felt burned by his definition of 400% Markup, Based off subsequent posts it wasn’t near that much of a markup courtesy of the Oreillys and advance auto pricing. I don’t know if I’ve ever dealt with any business where there wasn’t a markup on the parts side, HVAC, Plumbing, Contractors, just to name a few. The only think I care about is the final cost and how does the service/cost compare to the competitors pricing.

I recently purchased some tires, Some dealers include the price of the install/flat repair and rotation in the cost of the tire, it’s a add on for others. Which is the better deal? Exactly... I consider myself a pretty savvy shopper, with smart phone in hand it’s pretty easy, Sometimes I just buy via Amazon even if they aren’t the cheapest because the service is reliable and if there is a problem I know they will bend over backwards to make it right.

Life is too short..

 

[Elsinore13]

Customer comes in today after ripping the mirror off of her Toyota. Mirror is $244.00. She finds one on the internet for 160 something. I tell her to go get it and bring it to me, I will install it for $75.00. 30 minutes later customer calls back and asks me to order her a mirror since hers was going to cost more shipped and delivered than mine...

 

[jimindm]

Customer comes in today after ripping the mirror off of her Toyota. Mirror is $244.00. She finds one on the internet for 160 something. I tell her to go get it and bring it to me, I will install it for $75.00. 30 minutes later customer calls back and asks me to order her a mirror since hers was going to cost more shipped and delivered than mine...

Went through the same thing on a Nissan titan a while ago. Customer didn't want me to order the dealer one. Ordered one for half price on the internet came in a week later. Had the door all apart and the connector was wrong, ordered one for no heated mirrors. Put it all back together and a few days later he called to tell me to get one along with a taillight.

Put it all on a few weeks ago. Just seen him this week, still has the wrong one. Can not get them to accept a return on it. He was sort of laughing about it. He is into it for about twice what he would have been, had he just done it. Found out he told me to order it after he backed into the garbage can busting the taillight.

 

[jimindm]

Shane you talk about it being an industry of bad apples. Do you really think the whole industry is this way?

You pick an industry of thousands of locations. Doing millions of repairs annually, and we all fit in the same basket.

 

[Shane6377]

Shane you talk about it being an industry of bad apples. Do you really think the whole industry is this way?

You pick an industry of thousands of locations. Doing millions of repairs annually, and we all fit in the same basket.

No, I don't think the entire industry is bad. I've stated that numerous times. The notion that all these issues are because of "cheap" and "stupid" customers "who don't know how to run a business" just simply isn't true. The facts don't support those excuses. What do you say to the articles I posted? Is that just a few consumer agencies and government offices picking out the bad apples?

Do you really think it's just a few bad apples in the industry?


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[neophyte]

Maybe those washers are really custom because I have faucets that are 15 years old and have never needed to be rebuild or have parts replaced, ever. For you to need to replace washers ever few years is wrong. Heck, my parents faucets were never taken apart in over 30 years and were only removed because the kitchen and bathrooms were remodeled.

It’s a standard Delta “Classic” model single handle kitchen faucet.
Delta has been making the same basic faucet for probably 50+ years at this point.
Saying I replace the washers every several years may be an overstatement, but the faucet does use rubber washers and springs, and the faucet washers and springs need to be replaced and lubricated every once in a while, maybe do to hard water, in addition to washer wear.
At some point I seem to have nicked an o ring groove, so that may cause excessive wear now.

The main point with the faucet, was that a plumber told my father that the faucets weren’t repairable, when you can buy a genuine Delta repair kit off the shelf for $5 to $20 nowadays, depending on how many parts you feel you need to replace, and most of the time you just need the $5 kit.
That $5 kit couldn’t cost more than $15 or $20 retail at a plumbing supply place, ans would probably have been $3 back when the plumber told my father that the faucets were not repairable.
My father wasn’t mechanically inclined, but he stopped mentioning the non repairable faucet when I took the faucet apart and repaired it.

 

[Skin]

Maybe those washers are really custom because I have faucets that are 15 years old and have never needed to be rebuild or have parts replaced, ever. For you to need to replace washers ever few years is wrong. Heck, my parents faucets were never taken apart in over 30 years and were only removed because the kitchen and bathrooms were remodeled.

A lot of this is water quality. I have fairly hard water and it does erode the seals. Especially the hot side. I have found that aftermarket gaskets last half as long as the real thing though.

Actually just repaired the water heater a few weeks ago as the inlet side ****** basically rotted in half after 10 years. I'd be willing to bet yours is still original in double that time.

 

[Roundhouse]

Hvac companies do the same thing

They charge the customer ~$100 hour, pay the tech $13 an hour , and charge the customer $180 for a part that cost $20.

Yeah they supply a 15 yr old worn out van with 309,000 miles on it for the tech to drive . Not a big cost to the company .


And the tool for the auto mechanics ?
I’ve never understood why anyone would pay for snap on and the other super expensive tools . It’s nuts
$20 grand for an empty toolbox when the ones at harbor freight are almost as good and missing a zero from the price tag ?

Maybe if you’re a mobile mechanic who works in quarrys or landfills or oil patch or something super remote , but you can buy 16 craftsman ratchets for the cost of one snap on.

 

[terry603]

Is it possible to charge more up front for labor? I dont mind paying more money up front if the job is done correctly. But when the part is marked up more than 20%, I feel like I was ripped off.

how do you feel about paying 50.00 for a shirt that has a cost of about 20.00?

 

[Taycan]

how do you feel about paying 50.00 for a shirt that has a cost of about 20.00?

It's not about what the actual cost of the shirt is to the Manufacturer/Distributor/Retailer/or whoever the F your talking about, it is the cost of the item at which it is normally sold to the public for.

Like I said before, it's all about perception

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Hvac companies do the same thing

They charge the customer ~$100 hour, pay the tech $13 an hour , and charge the customer $180 for a part that cost $20.

Yeah they supply a 15 yr old worn out van with 309,000 miles on it for the tech to drive . Not a big cost to the company .


And the tool for the auto mechanics ?
I’ve never understood why anyone would pay for snap on and the other super expensive tools . It’s nuts
$20 grand for an empty toolbox when the ones at harbor freight are almost as good and missing a zero from the price tag ?

Maybe if you’re a mobile mechanic who works in quarrys or landfills or oil patch or something super remote , but you can buy 16 craftsman ratchets for the cost of one snap on.

Almost as good? It's not even close. Just because they sell a 20k tool box, or someone dreamer lists his on craigslist for that, doesn't mean every shop has 20k tool boxes floating around.

My triple bay was 5600, my other used overflow box I've got 850 in. Not a ton of snap on ineither, but some of their stuff is well worth it. Lots of things are tool truck exclusives for a certain amount of time, even if the actual manufacturer will eventually sell the tools, it maybe be 18months before they release it.

I used an easy 3k worth of diagnostic stuff I paid for to figure out a dodge stalling intermitantly last week. Cost the customer like $300 bucks. Ratchets, even if you want a dozen dual 80s, aren't the kind of stuff that tracks up costs for mechanics. Took about 15min to diagnose, without that stuff you'd be chasing your tail or hoping to get luckily on a guess.