Rebuilding a mechanic

[spencerian]

After 8 years of not turning wrenches for a living I decided to get back in.
Eight years ago I decided to go to college and sell all my tools. I used to have a pretty good collection...

I had a few thousand dollars and needed to stretch it!
I bought most of the tools I have on sale at Sears.
The rest I bought at Autozone, eBay and HF.

The best stuff I have is Snap On from eBay.
Snap On IM51A 1/2" impact $30 shipped
Snap On pliers $25 shipped
Other Snap On stuff was also purchased and saved me $!
The WORST eBay purchase was a Cornwell pliers set. It cost $45 shipped and really is junk. Years ago Cornwell stuff was pretty good.

Sears get props for their professional line.
I have the pro wrenches, screwdrivers, pry bars and more.
I would rate the Cman Pro stuff better than the Matco and Cornwell stuff I have. The quality is about the same, but price, no comparison!

The Great Neck tools are ****.
I don't have a bunch of tools from Azone, but the ones I do have are less than useful. The sockets strip bolt heads, and the chrome finish is flaking.
I returned a socket that broke today. Azone required a receipt to warranty it. I had mine. The receipt was fading. The guy at the counter told me once the receipt gets too faded to read I am screwed and my warranty would be no more :WTF:!

 

[justinmc]

Are you getting back into wrenching as a trade? Its a tough field these days even at a dealership where you get fed warranty work.

Sounds like you have a decent collection started and know where you need to go to round the rest out. Certainly stay away from parts store branded tools. Sadly in the past decade as most parts stores have been forced to go the "big box" route in both the tools and parts they carry (cheaper, faster, now!) the good brands have all but disappeared from those places.

 

[bchee]

What do you guys think about Duralast brand at Autozone? They do some aggressive marketing. Also, all of their surveys ask about your experience with duralast (surveys from the receipts) so it SEEMS like they are interested in customer feedback.

 

[Uncle Buck]

What do you guys think about Duralast brand at Autozone? They do some aggressive marketing. Also, all of their surveys ask about your experience with duralast (surveys from the receipts) so it SEEMS like they are interested in customer feedback.

I am no fan, for the money you cannot beat most Crafty stuff when new. Now used is an entirely different story!

 

[scofo]

Good luck on your return, I hope you find people that treat you well and have benefits. This seems a tall order nowadays.
Matco has some 3/8"drive medium depth impact swivel sockets, that I use everyday. The swivel is akin to a cv joint, so it is smoother and no pin to break.10,12,13,14,15,17,18 & 19mm gets you lots of places. Just a suggestion, if you have a dealer that shows up.

 

[bchee]

I am no fan, for the money you cannot beat most Crafty stuff when new. Now used is an entirely different story!

When you put it that way, I guess I don't see any benefit to buying duralast. Craftsman has the same/better warranty, with much bigger selection, and mostly US made stuff. Obviously if you didn't have a Sears nearby, then maybe. I guess I was wondering because I'm always seeing commercials for duralast stuff. They are expensive for imports.

I don't know if duralast warranty requires a receipt, but I think it's funny that every tools is stamped 'guaranteed for life'

 

[billymade]

I haven't bought any duralast but have looked at them at Autozone quite a bit; they strike me as being expensive and really make an effort to "clone" Snapon tools; look at their ratchets! I don't have any experience with them but the price structure seems higher then Craftsman and who knows about their durability; needless to say all made in china/taiwan.

 

[bchee]

I play with them a lot at autozone, and I think they make the best snap-on copies. Look at the soft grip 3/8 ratchet - the shape and font is almost identical. They have no shame.

Almost every other company, like Gearwrench, tries to make their tools look 'similar' but duralast is the worst.

 

[spencerian]

Thanks for the tip on the Matco swivels.

It amazes me the quality of tools on a slippery slope.

I haven't found a good job yet. I did find a crappy one. The pay was $25 FRH. But parts were never ordered, customers never notified of parts needed, etc. Then I quit.

So I took a job at Firestone.....
All Firestone wants is a 'tire and lube" guy. Too old for that. So I have to find something new.

In the meantime I continue to shop eBay for deals. (not that I can afford them seeing as an oil change pays .3 and 4 tires pay .6)

 

[eschoendorff]

What do you guys think about Duralast brand at Autozone? They do some aggressive marketing. Also, all of their surveys ask about your experience with duralast (surveys from the receipts) so it SEEMS like they are interested in customer feedback.

I think that there are a lot of better values out there when it comes to Taiwan/China tools. GearWrench comes to mind - especially for the price. Autozone really thinks that their Duralast tools are something special.

 

[Bob Paulin]

.....Azone required a receipt to warranty it. I had mine. The receipt was fading. The guy at the counter told me once the receipt gets too faded to read I am screwed and my warranty would be no more :WTF:!

I always make a plain-paper copy of ANY important receipt.

Most stores today use thermal printers in their registers. THERMAL PRINTING FADES!!!!....especially if you leave it on the dashboard in the summertime.

A friend of mine, who works in the flooring department at a "Big Box" store, tells his customers to make a copy of their cash register receipts for possible future warrantee claims against the "lifetime" guarantee.

 

[wilbilt]

After 8 years of not turning wrenches for a living I decided to get back in.
Eight years ago I decided to go to college and sell all my tools. I used to have a pretty good collection...

I'm curious as to why you decided to get back in to the trade.

I left about 8 years ago because of poor conditions in the last shop where I was employed. The owner was also a jerk. He really soured my outlook on automotive repair.

After 20 years of lifting tires and crawling around under alignment racks, my back and knees are shot, so I looked for something a little easier on the body.

Sometimes I do miss it, but not enough to want to go back. Crappy pay, long hours, working out in the hot and cold weather....Naahhh.

It sounds like you have made a good start on replacing your tools. I sold most of my specialty tools and my 2 SO boxes, but kept everything else.

I can say I did have an Autozone ratchet warranteed several years ago with no problems. It was before they had "Duralast", I think it may have been a Taiwanese Thorsen.

I bought the ratchet in a pinch because my Craftsman ratchet exploded on a job, and Autozone was right around the corner. A few years later, it started skipping so I took it back to another store and they replaced it, no questions asked. I have yet to find a Sears store that will warranty the Craftsman.

My biggest complaint about Autozone is that their local store is very small, and always packed. Whenever I go in there, I have a long wait.

 

[spencerian]

I'm curious as to why you decided to get back in to the trade.

I had about 8 years of experience when I quit. I went to college. Then I opened a computer store. The store did realy well. But the stress level was astronomical. When I had employees it was more like "Daddy Daycare". To me computers are too simple. They are easy to fix. But cars have all these subsystems that can break down. I guess I just like to be challenged.

I left about 8 years ago because of poor conditions in the last shop where I was employed. The owner was also a jerk. He really soured my outlook on automotive repair.

After 20 years of lifting tires and crawling around under alignment racks, my back and knees are shot, so I looked for something a little easier on the body.

Sometimes I do miss it, but not enough to want to go back. Crappy pay, long hours, working out in the hot and cold weather....Naahhh.

The weather can be rather harsh. I have sweat my a$$ off the past few days. I am so used to climate controlled environments that I probably got a little spoiled. The shop I used to work at payed well, had good coworkers and the boss/owner was genuine.

It sounds like you have made a good start on replacing your tools. I sold most of my specialty tools and my 2 SO boxes, but kept everything else.

I must have misplaced most of my specialty tools. I don't remember selling them, and most were GM/Ford tools. I primarily drive imports so I haven't needed them.

I can say I did have an Autozone ratchet warranteed several years ago with no problems. It was before they had "Duralast", I think it may have been a Taiwanese Thorsen.

I bought the ratchet in a pinch because my Craftsman ratchet exploded on a job, and Autozone was right around the corner. A few years later, it started skipping so I took it back to another store and they replaced it, no questions asked. I have yet to find a Sears store that will warranty the Craftsman.

My biggest complaint about Autozone is that their local store is very small, and always packed. Whenever I go in there, I have a long wait.

Had I known this thread was going to stray to Industry I would have started it in free parking (sorry guys). I am amazed how price has gone up on tools but quality has gone down. The only tools that stay constant are Snappy's. I am also upset that Firestone has such a low rate of pay.
I made amlost twice as much 8 years ago as I make now.

 

[Fedwrench]

Had I known this thread was going to stray to Industry I would have started it in free parking (sorry guys). I am amazed how price has gone up on tools but quality has gone down. The only tools that stay constant are Snappy's. I am also upset that Firestone has such a low rate of pay.
I made amlost twice as much 8 years ago as I make now.

Welcome to the current world of a flate rate tech. Shop labor rates have climbed to over a $100 an hour yet, most techs are lucky to make 25% of that an hour. Factor in the cost of tools, minimum benefits, and a varying amount of work, and it's not the greatest of jobs lately.

 

[kvom]

The best stuff I have is Snap On from eBay.
Snap On IM51A 1/2" impact $30 shipped

Same wrench for me, same price

 

[a390st]

I was offered a job a while back that was around $18-20 flat rate with no paid benefits and only 30 hours a week guaranteed. Repairing a bring-back was on your time, with no pay. After 90 days you could pay for your own insurance and retirement. The owner said he figured the 7 days a year of unpaid holiday were a benefit. Oh, and you could take a week of vacation after the first year...unpaid! I actually applied there being that they were supposedly a shop for a specific marque, but it turned out that you would be working on whatever came through the doors. They only worked on the advertised marque as about 10% of their business, while the remainder of your time was general work. I was even willing to do that, but the owner turned out to be a JERK after I got to know him a little better. Needless to say, I didn't take the job. You supplied all of your tools, of course, and working on every sort of car under the sun requires A LOT of specialty tools!

I personally have Snap-On, Matco, Craftsman, Mac, Proto, and SK. I try to get the Snap-On or Matco for tools I use daily, Craftsman for second or third line, and the others for extras or just what I pick up cheap. I have had pretty good luck on service with all of them. Oh, and Lisle makes pretty fair specialty tools for cheap for the most part - some junk. I hate to say it, but divorce, running out of money before payday, and leaving the profession seem to be big reasons for people selling their tools. I expect there are going to be more people in bad positions or getting out in the near future. The trade is tough, and the economy and fuel price are, too.

Have fun.

 

[wilbilt]

Had I known this thread was going to stray to Industry I would have started it in free parking (sorry guys). I am amazed how price has gone up on tools but quality has gone down. The only tools that stay constant are Snappy's. I am also upset that Firestone has such a low rate of pay.
I made amlost twice as much 8 years ago as I make now.

Sorry about that...I have a tendency to bend threads askew. My apologies.

Interesting that you didn't find a challenge in technology. In my current position, I am responsible for 600+ workstations on an AD domain at four sites in a K-8 school environment. It keeps me hopping.

Add to the mix a few dozen cranky servers, classroom projectors, doc cams, audio systems, and about 100 whiny teachers, and it can get downright insane.

Working on cars these days is like relaxation therapy for me.

I do make almost twice as much as I did 8 years ago, if you include the benefits and retirement contributions from my employer.

If I were to ever go back, I would seriously rethink my tool purchases. I would avoid the tool trucks at all cost.

 

[speed bump]

Well if you really want to get back into mechanicing that pays well I would suggest looking in the mining industry. The stuff you work on is generally easier to deal with and the pay is much much better.

 

[Danglerb]

Pick the right boss and the right customers if you want to be happy.

What part of the country are you in?

The tire business is cut throat with tight margins, about the worst end of mechanics work that exists short of prison labor.

 

[eschoendorff]

Add to the mix a few dozen cranky servers, classroom projectors, doc cams, audio systems, and about 100 whiny teachers, and it can get downright insane.

You ain't kidding. Teachers are some of the whiniest people I know. That's why I don't have very many fellow teachers as close friends. Musicians, yes. teachers... fck no.

Working on cars these days is like relaxation therapy for me.

Same here. The difference is that you know what the hell you are doing....

 

[jay50]

What did you get you college degree in?

 

[garfunkle24]

Well if you really want to get back into mechanicing that pays well I would suggest looking in the mining industry. The stuff you work on is generally easier to deal with and the pay is much much better.

I agree with this completely. I'm just going to weigh in with my perspective on the different technical trades as I see them in my area (Saskatoon, Canada).

I have worked as a heavy equipment technician but I now work on ag equipment. Actually it's small, specialised, precision research ag equipment, but pretty much the same difference, only a little lighter work.

I really enjoy the work and the pay has been very good for me. I have many friends who are techs working on mining, oilfield, construction and forestry equipment and they all get a really good paycheck and they all seem to enjoy their work. We all also like weekend wrenching on bikes/sleds/cars/atvs too.

On the other hand, I have friends who are auto techs in flat-rate shops who basically hate their working life. This might be emphasised by the fact that all the guys I know are young technicians (20 - 30). In a flat-rate shop seniority makes a huge difference, as the old timers get all the gravy, faster-than-flat-rate jobs and the young guys get all the "not a hope in hell of doing that in less than double the flat-rate" jobs. It seems that non of these guys want to turn a wrench once they've left the office either.

The one good thing about heavy equipment is that everything is so heavy that you never really lift anything yourself. Shops are set up with crains and hoists and cherry pickers all over the place to facilitate this.

With ag equipment, everything seems to be on that borderline of "should/shouldn't I lift it?", but due to time constraints, (and/or youthful bravado), you seem to end up hand-balling them every time.

Anyway, to the OP, it's always good to hear about new techs joining the industry or good techs coming back, so I hope you find something rewarding that pays you what you're worth. Best of luck.

Garfunkle

 

[64merc]

garfunkle24, did you recieve special schooling to learn how to work on ag equipment, or was it all OJT? I guess I'm just wondering if most heavy equipment techs and such start out working on cars?

 

[garfunkle24]

garfunkle24, did you recieve special schooling to learn how to work on ag equipment, or was it all OJT? I guess I'm just wondering if most heavy equipment techs and such start out working on cars?

I am a Journeyman Agricultural Machinery Technician by correct title. It is a 4 year apprenticeship here in Canada and requires 8 months of training at a technical school and 7200 certified hours working under a Journeyman technician.

There are various specialities where I live including Truck + Transport (semis), Agricultural, Automotive, Auto body and Heavy Equipment (construction/mining etc). Heavy Equipment is very popular and it takes a long time to get a place at the technical school, which is why I went with the ag program.

From talking to other techs, the only things we didn't cover in the ag course were undercarriage (tracks etc) and pneumatic systems (air brakes). These were the only things in Heavy Equipment and Truck + Transport which weren't (and IMO should be) taught in the ag program. I have worked on both of these a fair amount since my technical training and all of the basic principles were familiar from topics we had covered. ie pneumatics are just hydraulics with air...

There is a shortage of technicians in this area in general due to a huge growth in the oil and mining industries. Most shops don't really favour a heavy-equipment ticket vs an ag ticket or vise-versa, even if they primarily have one kind of equipment. I have had several opportunities to go work at mines and oil rigs but I am comfortable where I am.

In some shops there is a slight preference for ag guys. Ag technicians are sometimes seen as better mechanics while Heavy Equipment techs are seen as 'parts changers'. I think this is because farmers are usually pretty cheap and want to save money, whereas heavy equipment is usually owned by larger companies that don't really care about maintanance costs, they just need reliability and productivity.

I have seen horrible waste in heavy equipment shops. if a starter solenoid is bad, the whole starter assembly gets garbaged. If an alternator doesn't seem to be putting out, they don't even check the regulator or the ground, just garbage it...

Not saying I agree with the Ag vs Heavy Equipment difference, just saying where I think it comes from.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

going back to an awful line of work
GOD BLESS YOU ! everbody I know wants to get OUT !

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

NOT MUCH MINING GOING ON HERE IN NY
if the feds [dems] have their way , they will outlaw coal , to further screw up the economy in an effort to repair the air

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Commercial/Industrial/Agricultural/Construction Diesel is where the money is and will be.

I'm going into that area..

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

I did diesel , paid 8 bucks less an hour than cars and pickups and the worked sucked , lots of ladders , climbing , stinky messy , hard work in the great outdoors , even in winter
choose your battles carefully

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Hmm..

Ideally, i'd like to work at a dealership where i can work on everything. Cars, Vans, Trucks, Diesels (Preferably PowerStrokes) and such. Well, then move onto a shop to do fabrication and such. (Performance/Offroading, not customisation)

For the first 5 or so years, i just want to work my *** off to save up some money. 80-90 hours a week (Seriously, i love working and have bad insomnia so i have to work a lot of hours in order to sleep. i walked 20.2 miles today, between work and exercise and it's 1:45am and i aint even remotely tired.)

 

[spencerian]

I quit today.
I don't feel good about quitting any job without a notice, but I felt I had to.
The work wasn't what I was told it would be.
Instead of Diag and AC work I got oil changes and tires.
The pay *****.
Was told their techs turned 60-70 hrs a week.
I couldn't break 33. There was one that did 50. Their Diag giy did 45.
The service manager is having a life crisis.
So the sh!t trickles down hill.

Now I am looking for a job, again.

 

[rsanter]

not sure I would want to get back into the field unless that is what you really want and love to do.
I had a shop and I though the Flat rate repair was a great deal both ways. most of my guys could do the job in less than book time and I had very few come backs. if they had a problem (rusty or broken bolts) that would cost them time then they would let me know and I would give them a little extra time if it was justified.
if they get the cars out quicker I can get more in during a day/week. generally my guys made about 10 hours a day of pay in 7-8 hours and did not have to rush or work at a sprinting pace to do it. if they had to come in a little late or leave a little early that could still make their wage that day
overall not a bad deal, of course I was not out to screw them but reward them for good work done efficiently. the 'bad' mechanics would not last more than a couple of weeks as they could not make any money

bob

 

[rsanter]

by the way I have some spare tools I could sell to help you get going

bob

 

[stioc]

If you truly enjoy working and fixing cars (I do but only as a therapy/hobby) why not start your own shop and be your own boss. Do everything the way you want to. You've experienced how the shops are run, what works and what doesn't, you have a fresher perspective on how a customer service oriented shop should be run since you've been away from the field for a few years. Did you know that most small businesses are started in the US because people are fed up with the way others ran the same business?

I know a mechanic who is one of the three "owners" or a small (two bay) shop. What it means is they pool their money together to pay the rent on the shop and they all find their own customers. They all focus on three different brands of cars too. The guy I know only works on BMWs the shop is in one of the yuppiest cities around here full of BMWs. He picks up cthe ars at customers' work, does decent work and returns them on time before close of business day - unless pre-arranged with the customer a longer work schedule. He'll stop at the car wash on the way to the customer and give the car a quick wash. He also sends in service reminders like the dealerships and even offer a summer/winter special discount sometimes when the business is slowing. He does quite well for a one man show.

The key is:

1. minimizing your outlay of the cash such as the rent for the shop and unnecessary tools
2. becoming customer service oriented by putting yourself in the customer's shoes
3. doing honest work (profit margins are perfectly fine)
4. probably the most important, pick the right brand of cars. In my experience the porsche and bmw shops make way more money than the ford and gmc guys.

BTW, I know him because he lets me use his lift/shop for $25 on the weekends if I pre-arrange the time with him (lately he doesn't even charge me anything but I buy him lunch still) for a couple of hours so I can work on my own cars. He even gives me a hand sometimes without a charge, overall he's just a nice guy and in return I've sent a few customers his way.

 

[wesreams]

jesus dont get me started on firestone, they pay us .6 for a thousand dollar set of tires!!, thats crazy, and an oil change is .3 how do u make money at this place i sure cant, u recommend somethin and they say "thanks ill take it to the dealer", plus 7 days a week and 8 to 5 an a sunday please everybody stay away from firestone all the want is for u to sell more tires for less. theyll sell tires when they arnt need and the brakes are 95% worn, this not a place for a technician. the sales people and the managers make a killing, not the tech. sorry to go on and on but i really hate my job and Firestone

 

[spencerian]

jesus dont get me started on firestone, they pay us .6 for a thousand dollar set of tires!!, thats crazy, and an oil change is .3 how do u make money at this place i sure cant.....7 days a week and 8 to 5 an a sunday....... theyll sell tires when they arnt need and the brakes are 95% worn, this not a place for a technician. the sales people and the managers make a killing, not the tech. sorry to go on and on but i really hate my job and Firestone

So true. I had customers with wheel bearings or front end parts that were bad only to be told to put 4 tires on it ... and the customer only came in for an oil change!

I have no doubt I can make money flat rate. But not at Firestone as a tech.
They pay 4/10 of an hour for an oil change with "courtesy inspection".
Now in those 4/10ths I have to
pull the car in,
write down mileage, vin, engine size, overall vehicle appearance,
check air filter, belts, hoses,
test strip the brake fluid, test strip the coolant,
test the battery
check all remaining fluids,
check tire pressure, tread depth, size and manufaturer
check all lights on the car

Take paper to service writer and explain any findings.

then I can START the oil change
rack it, raise it, drain it, look up the filter #, change filter,
lower it, oil it, sticker it, check for leaks, unrack it, and back it out.

And I have thought about opening a shop. My computer store I had did great. We were customer driven and detail oriented. I guess what made us the best was we were honest.

Just a FYI, the labor rate at the Firestone was $89/hr. Higher than the Mercedes dealership.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Labour rate at my old shop was $150/hour. That is no exaggeration.

We had a stupid jobsheet system. Car came in, customer went to reception. They then raised a jobsheet, which had all the car details put in, customer details put in (including telephone number and full address) then you put in the details of the job, whether it was something specific or check for a problem.

Then the tech would get to work, report their findings to the reception or just do the job on the jobsheet. If there were any other problems the tech reported them, the guys at the desk would get autority for the work, re-issue a jobsheet and give it to the tech for the work to be done. Once this was done the car was washed (depending on how big the job was) and the customer was invoiced.

Now that system works pretty weel for bigger jobs. I know the system inside-out because i did both office and technician work, i ran the office/reception alone many times. (i used to manage a tyre shop too) But i also had times where a customer needed a headlight bulb changed, and was in a rush.

Couldn't touch the car without a jobsheet. it took 10-15 minutes to raise a jobsheet, then 5-10 minutes for me to change the bulb and then 5 mins for them to raise an invoice. So what could've taken 5-10 mins for me to change the bulb WHILE they were raising an invoice ended up taking up to 30 minutes.

And the techs didn't make much. I was on £250/week. Some techs were one £450/week while others were on £80/week. (i've left that in pound sterling because a lot to do with money is relative, what you guys pay a dollar i pay a pound. So me making £250/week is the same as you guys making $250/week.)

 

[toolfreak]

In some shops there is a slight preference for ag guys. Ag technicians are sometimes seen as better mechanics while Heavy Equipment techs are seen as 'parts changers'. I think this is because farmers are usually pretty cheap and want to save money, whereas heavy equipment is usually owned by larger companies that don't really care about maintanance costs, they just need reliability and productivity.

I have seen horrible waste in heavy equipment shops. if a starter solenoid is bad, the whole starter assembly gets garbaged. If an alternator doesn't seem to be putting out, they don't even check the regulator or the ground, just garbage it...

Not saying I agree with the Ag vs Heavy Equipment difference, just saying where I think it comes from.

I work on heavy equipment and usually when a starter solenoid is bad we replace the starter since the starter gasket is usually leaking. Some of the starters are a real pain on dozers and I have seen it take someone half a day to change one out. However, I agree with you that in the heavy equipment field there are alot of parts changers.

We have one mechanic that will throw hydraulic pumps and valves at a machine without even testing pressures and end up being something cheap and easy to fix. The funny thing is he is sucked in so tight that he can do no wrong and is there favorite mechanic. He will also order valves and pumps that aren't needed and when another mechanic fixes it for him, he just leaves the parts outside in the weather to become junk.

 

[garfunkle24]

holy **** is everyone writing long posts in here

 

[cruiser808]

Trust me. If you are an auto tech, you'll understand.

 

[scofo]

Spencerian, how goes the search. Tell me something good. You found the perfect job and had too much humility, to tell the rest of the d--b f-cks, where you work.