To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Rebuilding an ATV Starter

A_Pmech

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
8,002
Location
IL
My neighbor came by late last week with a project: Find out why his ATV wouldn't start and fix it. He uses this ATV every single day and it starts and stops constantly. The starter button is actually worn!

After a few minutes of fiddling, it was obvious the starter motor had a burned commutator or stuck brushes. Whacking the starter with a plastic hammer or turning the armature slightly was sufficient to make the starter work for one start, then it would fail to run again without fiddling.

After wrangling the starter out of the bike:

starter8.jpg


Once disassembled, I got a nice bag full of brush dust out of the end bell. Yep, those brushes are done!

starter2.jpg


The comm looks a little toasty too:

starter1.jpg


A new starter is $370 and the armature is not available separately. However, new brushes, brush holders, springs, and seals are available for roughly $65. The existing starter bearings are in excellent shape. Solution: Turn the commutator and save my neighbor a few hundred bucks.

Here's the setup in a tiny Atlas 6" bench lathe. This machine is next to useless for any heavy cutting, but excels at simple maintenance tasks like commutator turning:

starter3.jpg


The starter gear is padded from the lathe dog by a chuck of Maple and a folded sheet of printer paper:

starter4.jpg


First pass:

starter5.jpg


Second pass:

starter6.jpg


Finished result:

starter7.jpg


The mica is still low enough that I don't need to do any undercutting. Parts are on order and when they arrive I'll bed in the brushes and get this thing back together!
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
A

A_Pmech

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
8,002
Location
IL
Very nice work. Looks like new.

Thanks!

It's pretty close, I was able to remove about 99% of pitting.

The brushes will come pre-formed for the original commutator diameter so I'll need to bed them in when they arrive.
 
OP
A

A_Pmech

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
8,002
Location
IL
looks better then using a comm stone

Hi Tony,

Yeah, this comm was beyond stoning as it was no longer round as can be seen in the first two passes. A comm stone would have cleaned away the burned bits but could not have removed the pitting or solved the out of round condition. An out of round comm will cause the brushes to jump, arc, and burn up the comm again.

Arkangel06 said:
What did you use for a cutting tool? Just a common carbide insert?

Hi Ark,

Just a freehand ground 1/4" HSS toolbit with lots of rake honed to a sharp edge. After turning, I gave the comm a quick sanding with 800-grit sandpaper to remove the tool marks.

Crappy photo:

starter9.jpg


As an aside, old books have lots of great info on electric motor repair and other common repair tasks that can be done with light bench lathes. South Bend's book "How to Run a Lathe", along with the companion brochures South Bend occasionally printed are one example.

"South Bend Shop Methods for Electrical Service Stations" shows a neat undercutting attachment that can be made with junk around the shop.

"Armature Winding and Motor Repair" by Daniel Braymer (1920) has a large section on commutator repair as well. It's dated, but it's free on Google Books too. :)
 

fatrhino

Well-known member
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
156
Location
Rochester
Are there specs like for brake rotors that specify the minimum serviceable diameter for the commutator, or can you just keep freshening it up until either you run out of material or the brushes no longer reach?
 

zmotorsports

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,333
Location
Northern Utah
Looks great. It's nice to see someone else turning these armatures and trying to save people a few dollars. I know my clients are very, very pleased to see that I have been concerned enough to try to save them money as well as trying to make a living myself. I think it definately pays off in the long run with client loyalty. Mike.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
A

A_Pmech

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
8,002
Location
IL
Are there specs like for brake rotors that specify the minimum serviceable diameter for the commutator, or can you just keep freshening it up until either you run out of material or the brushes no longer reach?

Hi Fatrhino,

It depends on the motor in question. Aircraft components obviously have overhaul limits. With most other types of DC motor it's up to the motor repairman's judgment.

Tarheelgarage said:
good job there helping out a friend.

Thanks!

zmotorsports said:
Looks great. It's nice to see someone else turning these armatures and trying to save people a few dollars. I know my clients are very, very pleased to see that I have been concerned enough to try to save them money as well as trying to make a living myself. I think it definately pays off in the long run with client loyalty. Mike.

Hi Mike,

I was hoping you'd chime in as I figured you were doing similar work at your shop. :beer:

I was actually surprised there was enough comm bar left for turning with the way they're making starters today.

RbrtAWhyte said:
You're looking in the wrong place for a starter. Starters for a TRX300 can be had all day long for less than $50...

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the info, I may have use for it in the future.

On this job, my customer specified that I install a new OEM starter ($370 Mitsubishi) or rebuild his existing starter with OEM components. Aftermarket parts are not acceptable to this customer.
 

bamatj

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
86
Location
alabama
OEM parts are nice, but so is a price savings of $325...

I try to save a buck every chance I get, but those Hondas in that time period is the longest lasting ATVs period. So oem may be the way to go. Its hard to beat a Honda built from 86 to 91 or 92. The 300s came out in '88, and I knew of one that seen lots of mud, and it kept the stock brake pads for about 15 years. Even the ones built just a few years later wasn't near that good. Though I have no idea why.
 
OP
A

A_Pmech

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
8,002
Location
IL
Hi Guys,

I finished the starter last week, but I haven't had time to update the thread until this morning. I've been busy with flooring, but that's another story...

Lots of Honda parts:

starter10.jpg


Holding back one of the brush springs to install the second brush:

starter11.jpg


Partially assembled:

starter12.jpg


Finished!

starter13.jpg


But does it work?

(Click on the picture to go to the video.)



Cost savings over a new OEM Mitsubishi starter? Well over $200.

:beer:
 
Last edited:

mjozefow

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
2,111
Location
Lafayette, IN
Nice work John! I'd take take the $200 savings and a quality rebuild over the cheapo starter any day. Especially since this guy depends on the ATV to check his land and livestock.
 

39 chevy

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
16
You won't get as many starts as you may think because those few low spots on the commutator is what caused your brushes to wear out as bad as they did. To properly make it as good U MUST sodder the arm wires back to the Comm. (Sorry if I sound neg, but thats the way it is) Looks real nice though!
 

ibedayank

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
2,619
Location
Columbia TN
You won't get as many starts as you may think because those few low spots on the commutator is what caused your brushes to wear out as bad as they did. To properly make it as good U MUST sodder the arm wires back to the Comm. (Sorry if I sound neg, but thats the way it is) Looks real nice though!

what da hell are you going on about? The OP never unsoldered them in the first place and by turning it in a lathe there no longer are out of round or low spots on the commentator bars.. the spaces BETWEEN are bars are there from the facory and have to be there


Op nice job


Now if i can just find parts for a DERBI starter... spanish made 50cc crotch rocket and the 50cc is not a typo
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom