Receptacle questions

[Conductor562]

I recently bought a new house and since the previous owner decided to paint all the outlets and switches the same funky *** colors as the walls (4 rooms were pink), I have to replace them all. I have 2 questions:

1. Is there any real advantage to the push in installation as opposed to loops?

2. I've noticed that every outlet has wires crossed.

Example: Wire coming in from left has its hot wire attached to the top of the outlet, but the neutral from the same wire is attached to the bottom. Each end of the outlet is wired with one wire from the wire coming in and one wire from the one going out.

Is there a purpose for this? Does it matter if the top poles are both hooked to the wire coming in while the bottom poles are hooked to the one going out?

 

[Old Bill]

I am not an electrician but have changed out many receptacles of late. The push in are easier to use provided your wire does not already have the loop from a previous receptacle. You would need to straighten it or if you have enough wire cut the loop off. Given a choice I would use the screw in with the loops.
I won't venture an answer on your second question but assume (bad word!) that the receptacles are wired in series - one to the next etc. Perhaps a more qualified person can answer that question.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I'm also not an electrician but have a fair amount of experience. The brass terminals are connected together as are the silver terminals....unless purposely separated, in which case there would probably be a red color wire being used as a hot from a different circuit. So no, there is no difference where the second wire comes from.
edit; normal house wiring 110/120V ; brass = black wire [hot], silver = white wire [neutral], green = usually bare wire [ground].

Richard

 

[Conductor562]

I'm 20 some odd openings into a 90 some opening job. The old outlets were all pushed, but I have been cutting them off and looping the new ones. I've changed a lot of receptacles, but these are 2 things I always wondered and never bothered to ask.

Thanks for the responses guys.

 

[sweetcretin]

Not an electrician. I am however an electrical engineer who works with an electrician and electricity every day.

No push-in, EVER! Loops only! The advantage of push-in is speed. The disadvantage is that the push-in *****. Either it won't retain the wire or it doesn't make good contact with the wire. Either way you end up with arcing in the outlet or in the box. Push-in meets code, that's about it.


If you look closely at your new outlets, you'll note that the upper and lower screw lugs on each side are tied together with a piece of metal (called a "fin"). As long as that metal remains, the two screws are electrically identical and you can use either the upper or lower screw. (You can remove this fin to isolate the upper and lower outlets, but you don't want to.)

In your case, one of the white/black pairs is bringing power to the outlet. The other white/black pair is taking power from the outlet to another outlet on the same circuit. Since the fin is still in your outlets (check each old outlet as you remove it), it doesn't matter (electrically) which hot screw you use for which black wire. Similar logic applies to the white wires. (I should note here that the applicable NEC may require a specific wiring pattern even if the two screws are electrically identical. An electrician would know this.) If a fin is missing from any outlet you remove, you'll need to remove the same fin from your outlet and make sure each wire is reconnected in the same pattern.


Black = hot, white = neutral, green/bare = ground is the standard, but not every circuit maintains the standard and scenarios exist where white can be hot. Even worse, you have no assurance that someone didn't wire the circuit wrong. Test every outlet before touching!

 

[JoeFin]

No push-in, EVER! Loops only!

Ditto

The push-ins will loose their tightness over time with the in-rush of motor loads turning on.

The Black wire must go on the Brass Screw Every time regardless of what the little plug-in tester might be saying.

 

[Rookie2]

Push in connections are the new norm for wirenuts. Lookup WAGO they are the standard for lighting fixtures .
I won't use them on outlets because when you stuff the outlet in the box the wires always are twisting and pushing or pulling on the outlet connections.

 

[sparky36000]

Loop the screw terminals. The wires are criss crossed because of how they were originally installed, doesn't hurt anything.

 

[G_P]

I always use the scew. The best outlets I've had were where you push the wire in straight from the back and then the screw clamps it in place. No making loops but the wire is clamped by the screw not held in by a spring clip.

The push in spring type are ok for normal use but sometimes a larger load like a vacuum can cause overheating issues.

Sent via carrier pigeon

 

[djjsr]

The best outlets I've had were where you push the wire in straight from the back and then the screw clamps it in place. No making loops but the wire is clamped by the screw not held in by a spring clip.

That's a Leviton 5252. It's all I use. Quick and easy to make a good tight connection. Available for 15 and 20 amp. Here's a photo of the guts, the one on the right.

 

[theoldwizard1]

That's a Leviton 5252. It's all I use. Quick and easy to make a good tight connection.

Yep. Definitely the "gold standard".

Unfortunately they are priced like they are made of gold ! Anyone know where to buy 5252 in bulk (50 ? 100?) for a "good" price ?

 

[Norcal]

Yep. Definitely the "gold standard".

Unfortunately they are priced like they are made of gold ! Anyone know where to buy 5252 in bulk (50 ? 100?) for a "good" price ?

I would not call any Leviton product the "gold standard" that distinction belongs to Hubbell, even Hubbell's economy hospital grade are better then Leviton's better grade hospital grade devices.


Unless the OP is on a very old edition NEC, "tamper resistant" receptacles are required in a residence.

 

[djjsr]

Unless the OP is on a very old edition NEC, "tamper resistant" receptacles are required in a residence.

Is that a California thing? It's a good idea if you have little kids or if you're one of those people that can't resist poking things in holes, but it's not required out here in the middle of nowhere.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Unless the OP is on a very old edition NEC, "tamper resistant" receptacles are required in a residence.

Is that a California thing? It's a good idea if you have little kids or if you're one of those people that can't resist poking things in holes, but it's not required out here in the middle of nowhere.

It will be eventually and probably sooner than you think !

I don't know when tamper resistant receptacles made it into the NEC, but I'll bet they are require in most new construction.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I would not call any Leviton product the "gold standard" that distinction belongs to Hubbell, even Hubbell's economy hospital grade are better then Leviton's better grade hospital grade devices.

Leviton 5252 is NOT a "hospital grade" receptacle, merely "heavy duty". The Leviton 8200 IS "hospital grade".

I don't care what brand my receptacles are, I want "screw and clamp" at a reasonable price (when purchased in quantity) !

 

[kbs2244]

First, push in vs. screw down.
The push in wouldn’t be on the market if they didn’t pass all the testing.
But old habits die hard.
And I have the old habit.
Use the screw down lugs.

Second, assuming the current wiring is doing what you want as far as function,
(outlets respond to switches, or are always hot, etc) and all you want to do is replace for color reasons, just duplicate what you find.

The easy way to do this is with your digital camera.
As soon as you pull the outlet out of the box, take a PIC of the back side.
Be sure to get the wire placement and any broken off “tabs” on the sides.
You will now have a record of what color wire goes where, if it is a split hot outlet, etc.

Then just do the same thing with your new outlet.

You can even print out the PICs and make a file of them for reference.
They will be handy to have if you want to do changes in the future.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I seem to recall that the push in are only approved for 14 gauge and the holes in them are required to be manufactured so that they will not allow a 12 gauge to fit. That is, I believe, in the code somewhere, however I cannot find it right now.

If you are buying receptacles that do have push in wire capability, you are buying cheap outlets. The best to buy of any brand are, spec grade, commercial, or industrial grade, and will have back wiring capability similar to what is illustrated above.

I'm going to save that pic of the opened up receptacles, for future discussions.

Charles

 

[Norcal]

Leviton 5252 is NOT a "hospital grade" receptacle, merely "heavy duty". The Leviton 8200 IS "hospital grade".

I don't care what brand my receptacles are, I want "screw and clamp" at a reasonable price (when purchased in quantity) !

Hospital grade is the top grade of device, I used it as a example only as a comparison Hubbell VS Leviton.

The device shown was "spec grade" , Leviton has come up a bit but still a cheapie grade, the low baller electrical contractors around here used to use Leviton devices & Zinsco/Sylvania panels in all the cheap tract homes.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I seem to recall that the push in are only approved for 14 gauge and the holes in them are required to be manufactured so that they will not allow a 12 gauge to fit. That is, I believe, in the code somewhere, however I cannot find it right now.

If you are buying receptacles that do have push in wire capability, you are buying cheap outlets. The best to buy of any brand are, spec grade, commercial, or industrial grade, and will have back wiring capability similar to what is illustrated above.

I'm going to save that pic of the opened up receptacles, for future discussions.

Charles

If not found in code, it can definitely be found on the outlet. The outlet will have writing that says '#14 only' on the back of the outlet near the hole.

If one wants a solid connection dont use the back stabs. Use the screw/side terminals or spec grade back wire terminals. The best way is to do pig tails that way all the current isnt passing through the outlet.

 

[Rookie2]

avoid those childproof receptacles , 2 out of 6 that i installed by mistake jammed up and i wasted sooo much time trying to make them work .

 

[Norcal]

avoid those childproof receptacles , 2 out of 6 that i installed by mistake jammed up and i wasted sooo much time trying to make them work .

Unfortunately they are required by the NEC in a residence & code is code & hack work is hack work.

 

[Albiemanmike]

If not found in code, it can definitely be found on the outlet. The outlet will have writing that says '#14 only' on the back of the outlet near the hole.

If one wants a solid connection dont use the back stabs. Use the screw/side terminals or spec grade back wire terminals. The best way is to do pig tails that way all the current isnt passing through the outlet.

Wylie,
When you say use pigtails I am guessing you mean connecting the incoming and outgoing circuits together via wirenutting and adding a short piece of wire to use for connecting your device? I then will make another guess that you recommend that so that in the event your device fails you still have current flow downstream in that series circuit?

Just trying to wrap my head around the pro jargon not trying to be a smartass at all. Been doing electrical diy for quite a long time and did have USAF electrical tech school back in the mid eighties so I have a solid understanding but in no way would I consider myself a professional. Just like to follow the rules and do things right like a pro would as well as making sure above all things are done with the utmost safety ensured.

 

[2Big2Ride]

Wylie,
When you say use pigtails I am guessing you mean connecting the incoming and outgoing circuits together via wirenutting and adding a short piece of wire to use for connecting your device? I then will make another guess that you recommend that so that in the event your device fails you still have current flow downstream in that series circuit? ...snip

Find a pic of pigtailed receptacle here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2872704&postcount=22

Yes, and yes to the questions.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

avoid those childproof receptacles , 2 out of 6 that i installed by mistake jammed up and i wasted sooo much time trying to make them work .

I call 'em use resistant!!

Wylie,
When you say use pigtails I am guessing you mean connecting the incoming and outgoing circuits together via wirenutting and adding a short piece of wire to use for connecting your device? I then will make another guess that you recommend that so that in the event your device fails you still have current flow downstream in that series circuit?

Just trying to wrap my head around the pro jargon not trying to be a smartass at all. Been doing electrical diy for quite a long time and did have USAF electrical tech school back in the mid eighties so I have a solid understanding but in no way would I consider myself a professional. Just like to follow the rules and do things right like a pro would as well as making sure above all things are done with the utmost safety ensured.

correct!!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Yep. Definitely the "gold standard".

Unfortunately they are priced like they are made of gold ! Anyone know where to buy 5252 in bulk (50 ? 100?) for a "good" price ?

I've been buying Hubbell 5362 (20amp) and 5263 (15amp) in 10 packs at the flea market for a buck each. I think Grainger must have surplussed excess stock, as these have been showing up regular. I probably have 40 receptacles or so right now, plus 20 amp switches and several Hubbell GFCI receptacles. These are all recent inventory, current production stuff, not old, non-compliant components. (however, they are not tamper resistant, so technically not usable in a residence.)

Habitat ReStore has a bunch of old-old stock electrical stuff some hardware or supply house gave them. 15 amp wall switches, brown, gobs of them, but no grounding terminal, and this makes them non-code-compliant for all but like replacement of non-grounded switch. They also have a huge inventory of Edison fuses, brown face plates, etc. Looks right out of the 1950's.

Charles

 

[240sxguy]

I am in the process of replacing a BUNCH of backstabbed outlets at my house, and on many the wires just fell out of the back!