Recommend a 12" combination square

[dwasifar]

Short version: Looking for a good 12" combination square that won't break the bank. I know Starrett is well regarded but they're also super expensive.

Long version: A while back I found that my Stanley 12" combination square was not, well, square. I thought I was just cutting inaccurately, but it turned out my lines were off because of the unsquare square. (It took me a stupidly long time to realize this.) I bought a Johnson 16" combination square to replace it and sent the Stanley in for warranty replacement just on general principle.

My plan was to use the Johnson square going forward and just toss the replacement Stanley into a drawer as a backup. But it turns out a 16" combo square is unwieldy most of the time. So I'm using the 12" Stanley and wishing I had something better.

There seems to be a big jump from suspiciously-low-priced squares to OMG-high-priced squares, at least on Amazon. If you were buying a 12" combination square and you wanted something better than a Stanley but less expensive than a Starrett, what would you buy?

 

[tarbellb]

Bump for interest...

 

[Firebrick43]

Look on eBay for a gently used brown and sharpe. Same or better quality as a starrett without the name recognition so prices are typically cheaper.

 

[LB-1911]

Short version: Looking for a good 12" combination square that won't break the bank. I know Starrett is well regarded but they're also super expensive.

Long version: A while back I found that my Stanley 12" combination square was not, well, square. I thought I was just cutting inaccurately, but it turned out my lines were off because of the unsquare square. (It took me a stupidly long time to realize this.) I bought a Johnson 16" combination square to replace it and sent the Stanley in for warranty replacement just on general principle.

My plan was to use the Johnson square going forward and just toss the replacement Stanley into a drawer as a backup. But it turns out a 16" combo square is unwieldy most of the time. So I'm using the 12" Stanley and wishing I had something better.

There seems to be a big jump from suspiciously-low-priced squares to OMG-high-priced squares, at least on Amazon. If you were buying a 12" combination square and you wanted something better than a Stanley but less expensive than a Starrett, what would you buy?

HJE has a few in a varied price range - As an example

12" LASQUARE COMBINATION SQUARE - 2" BASE
https://www.harryepstein.com/index.php/12-lasquare-combination-square-2-base.html

Additional info
http://lasquares.com/

Edit to add - Pec Tools as mentioned by dr_clyde
https://www.harryepstein.com/index.php/catalogsearch/result/?q=PEC+COMBINATION+SQUARE+

 

[dr_clyde]

If you don't want to spring for a Starrett, which is what I use as my primary square, I really like Products Engineering. They seem to be every bit as good quality as Starrett. Sold as PEC tools.

Look for forged and hardened heads, and satin chrome on the blades.

 

[dr_clyde]

Some further thoughts; I get wanting so save a few bucks, but honestly, my Starrett squares are among my favorite tools, and some of the nicest I own. You can find them used if you look. They offer a cast head, and its not near as nice as the forged and hardened blade. Its really worth spending a few extra bucks for the nice square.

To me, Starrett has the nicest mechanism to change the blades out, and they offer the most attachments for the blade. I use the square head the most, followed by the centering head. I usually use the 12" 4R blade, but really like a 24" blade for layout and fab work. They make up to a 36" blade, which is nuts to me, but yet I still want one.

Personally, I don't care for Mitutoyo squares. They don't have as good a blade change mech, and its very frustrating.

 

[PugetDude]

Starrett

$87; worth every penny

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...-nd2BOXqDImRGh4i7vWKzHX_Ah6IfJ7oxwaAuGa8P8HAQ

Good compromise:

$35; I have their 4" hook rule and I'm pretty impressed.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0059L1YGO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Post pics of whatever you end up with.

 

[IndyGarage]

I pick up Starrett squares at swap meets - usually for about $10.

I've got about 5 of them now.

 

[WittHay]

Doesn't it depend on the use. For general carpentry work, the Empire or Johnson combination squares are good and they are made in the USA. For metalwork, other posters have recommended Starrett and other machinists type squares

 

[ptgarcia]

Doesn't it depend on the use. For general carpentry work, the Empire or Johnson combination squares are good and they are made in the USA. For metalwork, other posters have recommended Starrett and other machinists type squares

^ this. I don't think one needs a $100 Starrett if they're just marking cut lines on 2x4s. What is your intended use?

 

[larry_g]

Doesn't it depend on the use.

Not entirely, It's more the the level of accuracy you work to. It's also readability, repeatably, and feel.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[stercorarius]

Call me cheap, but my $12 Swanson combination square (combination square, not speed square, I know the difference) works just fine for all the metal and woodworking I do. That being said my work isn't +/- .002".

Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk

 

[PugetDude]

If the square is for general carpentry, I like this one. (it's also available in 14" )


http://www.starrett.com/metrology/p...e-workshop-tools/layout-tools/Squares/K53-8-N

 

[dwasifar]

Doesn't it depend on the use. For general carpentry work, the Empire or Johnson combination squares are good and they are made in the USA. For metalwork, other posters have recommended Starrett and other machinists type squares.

^ this. I don't think one needs a $100 Starrett if they're just marking cut lines on 2x4s. What is your intended use?

Not entirely, It's more the the level of accuracy you work to. It's also readability, repeatably, and feel.

I do more woodwork than metalwork, but it's more than just marking 2x4s. Think of finish carpentry, light cabinetry, small hardwood projects. As far as accuracy, I always try to push the limits of my ability and make the finished piece as straight and square as I possibly can, so precise and repeatable measurements are really critical for me. And I find I'm using the combination square that way a lot. Readability is one place the Stanley really comes up short; virtually everything suggested so far is better.

 

[ecotec]

First... throw away the Stanley square.

What is the point of keeping it?

 

[ptgarcia]

Sounds like Starrett may be what you're looking for, but you'll have to pay more for that quality. PEC are a bit cheaper and seem to be a quality tool, and I've heard Workhorse is good, too, but I personally haven't used either of those brands.

 

[dwasifar]

First... throw away the Stanley square.

What is the point of keeping it?

I'll get rid of it as soon as I replace it. The only reason I hung onto it in the first place was as a backup.

Here's a guy selling PEC blem seconds:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blem-Cosmet...st-square-protractor-/141455416116?rmvSB=true

 

[TractorMechanic]

Take a look at LaSquare sold by LaGesse Products. Made in the USA.


http://lasquares.com

http://lasquares.com/about/


I bought one so far and plan on buying an extra. Has a wider base. Very well constructed. If ordering online ask the company for a coupon code.

 

[PBCampbell]

A combination square for woodwork strikes me as the wrong tool for the job. It can work, but wouldn't offer any advantages over more traditional woodworking or carpentry layout tools as far as I can see. An Empire, Stanley, or Johnson can always be checked for squareness before purchase easily enough and are inexpensive if one was really intent on going with that style of tool.

 

[thursday]

I'll get rid of it as soon as I replace it. The only reason I hung onto it in the first place was as a backup.

Here's a guy selling PEC blem seconds:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blem-Cosmet...st-square-protractor-/141455416116?rmvSB=true

I don't personally own any from the brand, but I know a few guys who do and they seem to be good quality.

 

[Gizmosity]

The PEC stuff is good, as mentioned.

I have a bit of a fetish for old Lufkin squares. You can typically find them used online for much less than the Starret or B&S ones. Old Lufkin is top notch stuff.

 

[dr_clyde]

The PEC stuff is good, as mentioned.

I have a bit of a fetish for old Lufkin squares. You can typically find them used online for much less than the Starret or B&S ones. Old Lufkin is top notch stuff.

I like every Lufkin tool I own. Shame they got bought out and don't have the quality they used to.

 

[ecotec]

I look for Lufkin that was made in Saginaw Michigan at estate sales and flea markets.

 

[ducksface]

Any combination square is compromise.
Some are less compromise for more dollars.
Buy a square.

 

[royce]

I've messed with most all of them and I too like the Lufkin's.
I seem to use them as rules with end stops more than squares.
With that said, I seem to reach for the 9" lukin or the 6" lufkin double double square the most.
Keep your eye peeled on ebay, there is a deal now and then.
Here is a pic of my livery.
It may seem like over kill, but these are working tools, not shelf queens.
On some projects I may have 3 or 4 out, set to different dimensions.
Royce

 

[Wamsutta]

Don't forget about PEC. Everybody always forgets them.

 

[Zeke]

For carpentry and cabinet making you need a variety of squares. The combo has its place but so does a speed square. I always have one of those in my bags or back pocket. Standard squares in 2 or 3 sizes should fill out the bill.

Machinists will have their own ideas but just using a pencil to mark lines and witness marks on wood doesn't require a Starrett.

AFA combos go the 2" base is handy but not always.

 

[davethorik]

If the square is for general carpentry, I like this one. (it's also available in 14" )


http://www.starrett.com/metrology/p...e-workshop-tools/layout-tools/Squares/K53-8-N

Global series = most likely China coo

I'll 3rd or 4th the Lufkin. Just make sure to get the hardened base, not cast. Same goes with Starrett. The rules themselves should all interchange, Lufkin Starrett B&S, PEC, and Mitutoyo so you don't need to limit yourself to one brand. Of course the smaller squares use smaller rules.

 

[dwasifar]

For carpentry and cabinet making you need a variety of squares. The combo has its place but so does a speed square. I always have one of those in my bags or back pocket. Standard squares in 2 or 3 sizes should fill out the bill.

Some of you guys seem to have gotten the idea that I want to rely on a combination square exclusively. Not so. I have other kinds of squares already, but I'm happy with those. (For the moment, anyway.) It's only the combination square that I'm trying to upgrade right now.

I'm going to HD to at least look at the Empire ones. Maybe try one out and see if it's enough of an upgrade before shelling out the bigger bucks.

 

[txvwnut]

I went eBay fishing and picked up a couple old c-man combi squares and an older Lufkin for cheep.

 

[Davefr]

Starrett.

Check Ebay, g-sales, GJ wanted thread and flea markets. There are lots of them out there for pennies on the dollar.

 

[rnscustom]

I use combination squares mostly for layout , I don't rely on them for square , I have an old Stanley that is accurate and I'll use it to transfer lines while cutting on the saw . Steel 1 piece squares or wood / steel squares I use To check for square . We don't usually cut by hand anymore so our saws , mitre gauges or cutting box ( tablesaw jig ) are usually set up and checked with a steel square . What do most of you guys use the combo squares for .

 

[pendragon1998]

Any square you buy should be tested for square before use. Set the square up on a straight worksurface and scribe a line, flip it over and repeat. They should be parallel.

Try blem PEC from Taylor Toolworks. I own a 6" and a 12" and they're darn near perfect, just a paint bubble and the brand is ground (nicely) off the blade.

http://stores.ebay.com/Taylor-Toolworks/_i.html?_nkw=usa&submit=Search&_sop=10&_sc=1&_sid=212293561

 

[rnscustom]

That's how I test mine but I make sure that I don't flip it any further than the length of the square ( so you are in the exact same place ) . A bowed edge will give you a bad reading if you don't keep the square on the same surface spot

 

[PugetDude]

What do most of you guys use the combo squares for .

I use my 4" Swanson square a lot more often than my 12" Contractor Grade Stanley. Highly recommend the Swanson for the price; I also have a POS 4" Empire Square that won't lock; bought the Swanson to replace it.

Some of the things I use my combination square for:

Marking screw hole distances/lines from the edge of a board.

Marking and measuring for depth of cut on the table saw.

Marking miters on rough 2x stock, it's easy to miss the length when you're marking something with rounded edges.

Anything I feel needs to be more marked more accurately than with a coarsely graduated speedsquare.

Measuring small parts where a tape measure is too cumbersome.

Finding centers for turning on the lathe.

Squaring up small assemblies.

With the head removed, it's a great layout ruler.

Checking for accuracy of cuts on the table saw (right angle and square)

As a precision straightedge (look for light between the blade and the object being checked.)

Measuring thickness of steel angle, plate, etc.

If I don't keep them out of sight my wife would be opening and stirring paint cans with them... so I leave the old beater Empire rules hanging above the bench and keep the good ones in my toolbox.

 

[dwasifar]

Tried the Empire from HD tonight. I really didn't like it. It sticks randomly when you slide it. I tried some silicone and then some light oil, no real improvement. So back to HD it goes, and I ordered a PEC blem from Taylor Toolworks on eBay.

 

[MaineGuide]

I keep a small and large Empire in my job boxes since it won't kill me if I break one or leave one behind; they work well. I also have several from the higher end brands. I have Lufkin and Brown and Sharpe sets that I got for reasonable prices on ebay, but my most prized set is a Starrett.

Look for Lufkin and B&S on ebay; you'll probably find Lufkin for a better price but B&S can be had for similar prices.

 

[leg17]

A combination square for woodwork strikes me as the wrong tool for the job. It can work, but wouldn't offer any advantages over more traditional woodworking or carpentry layout tools as far as I can see. An Empire, Stanley, or Johnson can always be checked for squareness before purchase easily enough and are inexpensive if one was really intent on going with that style of tool.

^^^^^^^^

 

[bob15]

I have a Starrett, it was part a 3 piece deal for $20 and find it no more accurate or inaccurate than a 30 year old Miller Falls or Stanley square.

 

[atthebeach]

My Starrett combination square is getting difficult to read with my old eyes...(I am the third generation in my family to own it). So I recently picked up an Empire combination square at HD. When I got it home, I could not measure a difference in accuracy between the two.
I was pleasantly surprised.