Recommend a multiprocess machine

[DocsMachine]

My shop right now is extremely tight on space, made worse by the recent acquisition of a fourth lathe. (Not a typo. )

Some of these machines need to go away, and I'm working on that. But one option that popped up is to "consolidate" my welders.

I currently have an old Lincoln MIG, an old Miller MIG, and a somewhat newer Miller TIG. I use the TIG most often, but I do also occasionally use both MIGs.

I don't 'need' two, it's just that the Lincoln is buried at the back of the shop and can't easily be rolled out front for work that can't be brought into the shop. The Miller- which was given to me and I fixed- I left up front for working on trailers and other heavy stuff I can't bring in to the welding table.

I've been toying with the idea of ditching all three and getting a single multiprocess machine, something with both a good quality MIG and a good quality TIG.

Probably inverter to keep the size down, the TIG has to be full-featured with high-frequency, both for starts and for aluminum, and with a proper throttle pedal. Preferably around 200 amp for both, and a water-cooled torch would be a plus, but not a requirement. (Put it this way: I don't need it built-in.)

I'm not made of money, but I'm willing to spend a bit for the right machine.

Any recommendations?

Doc.

 

[humpty]

I am not a pro welder so extra salt for this...

I played a bunch with a buddy's Miller Multimatic 200 and I really liked it. It is meant to be portable so it may not have enough oomph for your needs. The only thing I didn't like was the price, but you have to pay to play. I am seriously considering one though.

humpty

 

[Jwallace1]

im interested to see what people say, i toyed with the idea of a multiprocess machine but ended up with a miller 211 transformer machine i got a good deal used but had hardly seen any use, im still on the hunt for a tig machine. i like the idea of the machine that can do it all but they can be very expensive and i don't love the idea of all my eggs in one basket if something happens to fail, if i can find the right Tig machine i might build a cart that stacks the two welders so it doesn't take up as much room. keeping an eye on this post to see the suggestions

thanks

 

[Swervyjoe]

I have a miller multimatic 220. I wanted AC tig for aluminum. Haven't put all that many hours on it but it's been alright so far. I do mostly thin stuff so it works for me.

 

[Jlarson]

We actually got a Multimatic 220 for a project, to see what they are made of, and I really like it for a multi machine. I've got a CK water cooled mini dinse adapter on it with a CK flex head torch with flex cables and a coolmate 4.

My other favorite multi is the Multimatic 200 but that's DC only TIG and no HF, but they have been bulletproof as far as field work, installs.

 

[Kaizen]

https://www.everlastgenerators.com/...Vi-oNeWd9XWSdZl_RKMSoosPk4rNDhZRoCFTAQAvD_BwE

No pro so didn’t need miller level. Think it ticks all of your boxes. It is a big boy though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[72Camaro]

I’m quickly becoming a fan of Everlast machines and currently running the 206Pi

 

[Monza Harry]

I want a bigger MIG so I looked at Lincoln 210 MP after finding out the price for the TIG kit and picked my jaw off of the floor I found out it doesn't have Hi Freq. either, coupled with the fact that my existing machines (Square Wave 175 and. Mac Tools 130 (made by Century) wouldn't cover 1/3 of the base 210) I decided I may just buy the base model for more power but I'm watching out for a used one to save some $$$, when I have more work linded up or that magic deal comes by. I did look for a bigger MP unit but that with HF more than doubles the price in Canada, I'm sure Alaska had some similar pricing issues. Harry
[P.S. HF = High Frequency for aluminum]

 

[MarkG]

Multimatic 215---oops. I see you wanted high-freq. Sorry. I don't see an option for deleting post.

 

[joe49]

I wouldn't lose 3 working welders for 1 do-it-all, you've heard don't put all your eggs in 1 basket haven't you? I would lose one of the migs for a mig/stick machine, to replace the one that gets buried in the back. Long leads will let it reach most any were.

 

[brandonsmash]

You might want to take a look at ESAB. I believe they have a multiprocess machine that incorporates both AC and DC TIG.

I run an Everlast 251si for job sites when I only want to take the one box to do the majority of the work I'll encounter; it does everything save for AC TIG. That said, it's not particularly wonderful at any of them and so none of the shop welders are in danger of being replaced.

 

[jbfab]

I'm a miller guy, so that's what I'm going to recommend. If your a hobbyist there is nothing wrong with the Multimatic 220. Out of all the homeowner class multi process machines I have run (including a Lincoln 210MP) it has the best overall performance. Other machines seem to excel at one process or another, but don't do well with 1 or both of the other processes.

If you're a pro, consider the XMT Series of machines (350 if you are on single phase) the MPa series of the XMT offers pulse capability, you would need to buy a separate feeder. For the machine and feeder you can expect to pay north of $7k new.

If your in between or would just like another option, consider keeping your Miller tig, ditching the other 2 and pick up a Multimatic 255 - I haven't run this one yet, but I am looking forward to when I can.

 

[chrism0107]

If you are in the buisness of making money from those machines if your one multi purpose machine dies you immediately need to repair or buy a new one. If you are just tinkering and time is not money then a multi purpose machine is ok.

 

[RustyJunk]

I recently replaced some old miller equipment with a couple of Everlast multi-process machines because all the other manufactures have **** for duty cycles nowadays on any of they're machines under $5 grand. The Everlast machines are as good as any Miller I ever used and I pretty much owned or used them all.

 

[ez-duzit]

I wouldn't lose 3 working welders for 1 do-it-all...

This.

I have Miller Dynasty 200DX tig and 211 mig plus Hypertherm 45XP plasma.

 

[theoldwizard1]

That is a whole lot of folding green stuff sitting there ! I hope it gets used, A LOT !

This.

I have Miller Dynasty 200DX tig and 211 mig plus Hypertherm 45XP plasma.

 

[ez-duzit]

That is a whole loot of folding green shop sitting there ! I hope it gets used, A LOT !

It doesn't get used a lot--it gets used regularly. And just 1 job paid for the whole lot.

 

[DocsMachine]

Not really a hobbyist, but keep in mind I'm a machinist that does the occasional fabrication or repair, not a full-time fabricator.

Went and looked at a Multimatic 220 the other day, and while I didn't get the chance to actually try it, the specs look good, and the shop says it's a popular seller. He's heard similar stories, with guys wanting both MIG and TIG, but not having much room in a small shop or even one or two-car garage.

AND... I had to shift all three welders around a couple days ago to do some electrical work in that area, and holy **** do they take up a lot of room. They were fine years ago when I didn't have much past a welding table, a bandsaw and a couple grinders in that part of the shop, but now I have eleven or twelve major machines in there, including an 11-foot-long 6,000lb lathe.

Plus a car and a literal ton of parts and packratted stuff. Place is tight.

Haven't committed myself- I have to sell the current ones first- but given how close things are in there, the option is looking better and better.

Doc.

 

[Monza Harry]

Not really a hobbyist, but keep in mind I'm a machinist that does the occasional fabrication or repair, not a full-time fabricator.

Went and looked at a Multimatic 220 the other day, and while I didn't get the chance to actually try it, the specs look good, and the shop says it's a popular seller. He's heard similar stories, with guys wanting both MIG and TIG, but not having much room in a small shop or even one or two-car garage.

AND... I had to shift all three welders around a couple days ago to do some electrical work in that area, and holy **** do they take up a lot of room. They were fine years ago when I didn't have much past a welding table, a bandsaw and a couple grinders in that part of the shop, but now I have eleven or twelve major machines in there, including an 11-foot-long 6,000lb lathe.

Plus a car and a literal ton of parts and stuff preserved for future use/generations. Place is tight.

Haven't committed myself- I have to sell the current ones first- but given how close things are in there, the option is looking better and better.

Doc.

Fixed that sentence above for you Doc! Harry

 

[slodat]

Doc - what did you end up doing?

 

[tlmartin84]

Everlast Multiprocess 221 (Mig, Tig, Stick) is what I have. Check them out on Instagram or facebook.

So far I love my machine. The newer version is the 225 and 275, it is an even nicer machine.

Worst part is switching leads, I am a beginner in TIG welding, so I try to use it as much as I can, but I often find myself switching back and forth during a project due to the various issues I run into.

 

[latebreak]

I recently upgraded to a Miller Multimatic 220. AC/DC TIG and MIG (spoolgun capable) were my requirements. This is a fine machine. I have it on a ZTfab cart coated in truck bedliner along with a Spectrum 375 x-treme plasma, 150cf bottles of argon and C25 and 4 filler rod holders.

Previously I had Lincoln TIG 200 and PowerMig 210MP. Going to one multi process machine frees up space. The Miller is the smoothest running MIG machine.

I’ve always wondered how people can MIG like TIG and now I understand a good machine makes a huge difference. My previous 210MP was a horrible machine from a wire feed perspective.

 

[DocsMachine]

Doc - what did you end up doing?

-Nothing, yet. Too many other things on my plate at the moment, and kind of figured spring would be a better time to sell the old welders, anyway.

I have kind of "pre-sold" the TIG, but that fellow needs to finish his shop, too. (And, during the winter, it's the only welder I use. )

Come spring-ish, I'll put 'em up for sale and unless something better comes along, probably grab that Millermatic.

I have a ton of stuff to do before I worry about that, though.

Doc.

 

[DocsMachine]

I recently upgraded to a Miller Multimatic 220. AC/DC TIG and MIG (spoolgun capable) were my requirements. This is a fine machine. I have it on a ZTfab cart coated in truck bedliner along with a Spectrum 375 x-treme plasma, 150cf bottles of argon and C25 and 4 filler rod holders.

-That's very much like what I have in mind, Late. One cart like that, that's light(ish) and compact, something that might take up a quarter the space of my current three machines.

Doc.

 

[latebreak]

-That's very much like what I have in mind, Late. One cart like that, that's light(ish) and compact, something that might take up a quarter the space of my current three machines.

Doc.

You nailed it. I have a detached 28x28 shop that I park my Ram in during winter months, use for working on "flip" vehicles, and do minor metal fabrication in. Every square foot (inch!) matters.

 

[DocsMachine]

Dragging this thread back up, kicking and screaming into the new year, I finally picked up that Multimatic 220:



And, of course, thanks to my procrastination and certain geopolitical conditions, it cost an F-Bomb Ton more than it should have.

I got about $2,800 for the original three welders, and the quote I got back in '21 or so for the Multi was something like $3600. Can't recall if that was with or without the cart. But basically another $800 or so.

New quote was $4,900. I had to dig up another $2,100.

But, I was welderless once I sold the last one- the TIG- and I have several projects coming up where I'll want both the MIG and the TIG. And, rumor has it, prices are just going to keep going up, so $2,100 might **** rocks now, but it'll still be better than $3,000 or $3,500 later.

Haven't had a chance to light it up yet- the "welding corner" is a bit cluttered at the moment- but I'll let y'all know what I find out, once I do.

Doc.

 

[Kaizen]

Earlier here i suggested an Everlast. Mine is 3 years old and has been bulletproof but recently had a string of bad luck. I hadn't need to touch my nozzle for a long time as i was using .030 wire. Went to change to smaller wire and couldnt get the nozzle off. I was advised to cut it off. Went to my local gas supply who has miller and such and they were not able to cross brand match one despite what Everlast said. Ordered new nozzles right from everlast and still it did not fit without hammering it on. As the torch only has a 3 month warranty I'm **** out of luck. Have to figure it out or drop another couple hundred on a new one. Still works fine so for now i'll get my projects done.
Then the next day i'm attaching gas and this fitting splits under almost no pressure with a wrench. I've never seen a fitting do this in my life. This was warrantied but i had to take it out and waiting on them to ship it. Hopefully this is not a sign of what is to come but figured i'd throw it out there as I am always transparent

 

[DocsMachine]

And that reminds me: On this Miller, each mode uses its own gas supply. The kit came with two argon regulators and two hoses- and the default cart holds two bottles.

I'm more machinist than weldor/fabricator, and my shop is pretty cramped. Any MIG use will have to be done outside, so I'm not throwing sparks on any of the machine tools.

As such, I got the single-tank cart, which was about a foot narrower. So I'm trying to decide how to plumb it. Do I simply Y or Tee the hose, and connect both inputs (as in, they'll both be pressurized when the tank is on) or do I add in some valves, maybe, so the unused side won't be pressurized?

How about a couple air-hose QDs, and simply have one hose that gets plugged into whichever is needed?

Leaning towards the simple Y or T; having the unused side pressurized shouldn't cost me any extra gas, I can't see it being set up so both solenoids cycle at the same time. That's also the most foolproof- I won't be as likely to have no switched hoses or flipped valves.

Anyone else do something like this?

Doc.

 

[slodat]

You'll want straight argon for TIG and most guys run a co2/argon mix for MIG. This is why it has two regulators. I run 25/75 mix on my MIG welder with great results.

 

[DocsMachine]

Oh, I know the reasonings, but this was a case where the narrower cart was important- my shop is cramped- and the fact that this will be roughly a 90% TIG machine.

Since my shop is mainly a machine shop, I don't like MIG or stick welding, to say nothing of grinding, in there. Dust, grit and junk on machines coated in cutting oils is not a good idea.

That means any MIG work will be outside, and barring special occasions, that means the roughly four months of 'summer' we get. I do have to MIG work to do (floor pan of the Olds, misc. bracketry to the Stude, etc.) so I wanted both, but I'm predominantly a TIG guy.

One can MIG with argon, you just get somewhat reduced penetration- not an issue with auto body sheetmetal- and maybe not the best-appearing weld. (Again, no big on a weld that's probably going to be ground down and covered with filler or undercoating anyway.)

That said, if my budget can ever afford it again, I'll probably pick up a bottle of 75/25 (or C25, if you prefer) to have on hand if/when I need to do anything thicker or more important than body sheetmetal.

Either way, I'll just have the one bottle on the cart, and the one flowmeter, so I'll be using a "teed" connection.

Doc.

 

[theoldwizard1]

On my own personal quest for the perfect welding machine, it was pointed out to me that MIG is good for laying down FEET of weld. Do need high duty cycle to accomplish this.

TIG takes time to learn, but once mastered you will find all others easy. Duty cycle is less important because you are not laying down long beads. POWER is important because you will likely be doing aluminum and that ***** the heat out of the puddle quick.

 

[DocsMachine]

Took a few minutes to fiddle with the new toy today. Sliced up the gas hoses and added a brass Tee, so both are connected to the one hose.



When I picked up the tee, the local auto parts store had some tie-down straps on clearance, so I got a pair- in blue, no less - for like ten bucks. I hate the chains that let the bottle rattle, so I cut them down to fit. Cinch up to a nice, snug fit.



Got the TIG torch, MIG stinger, ground clamp and footpedal hooked up, dropped in my leftover roll of .024" and an appropriate tip in the stinger, then swapped the supplied Ceriated tungsten with a freshly-ground 3/32" Tri-Mix (purple.)



... And it was at this point that I found out my Argon bottle is almost empty. Still has plenty of flow in the flowmeter, but the tank-pressure gauge needle is still resting solidly on the pin.

I have full spare but this one at least has enough for a quick try-out. Don't laugh, these results are all me:



I just grabbed the nearest chunk of scrap, still covered with mill scale, and because of all the clutter on the welding table, I didn't have very good hand support. The machine itself is incredibly smooth, notably better than my '05-era Miller 180, a difference I put down in no small part to that one being a transformer machine and this one an inverter.

Haven't tried the MIG yet, again, too much clutter on the table, some of it potentially flammable. I'll roll it out front and give it a shot this weekend.

Doc.

 

[Retroman]

I really want to learn to Tig I have a MM211 and would like to add the HTP Invertig 221 I just need a project in aluminum to pull the trigger.

 

[Monza Harry]

Doc, "Western Enterprises" sells purpose built quick disconnects for easy switching of lines (regulators/bottles, etc). They aren't cheap and there are different ones for the regulator or machine end. They are about $45 Canadian [this will be cheaper in USD for you, but with Alaska shipping will be close I'm sure] and I'll need another 2 of one and 2 of the other when I compete the back purge gas for two different machines. So happening in s___l___o___w motion. Harry
http://westernenterprises.com/enterprises/welding-equipment/quick-connect/
(last two For your purposes. QBD33/ QBD34)
T92[CV] And or T680 may be helpful as well

 

[DocsMachine]

I got my first TIG specifically to do some aluminum projects, but it rapidly became my go-to for pretty much anything.

Heavy steel? MIG or stick. Everything else, TIG. Can't count the number of shelf brackets, frames, mounts, trays, boxes, housings, covers or what have you, that I've made out of steel, stainless or aluminum.

I'd say don't wait for a specific aluminum project.

Doc, "Western Enterprises" sells purpose built quick disconnects for easy switching of lines (regulators/bottles, etc).

-Thank you. I figured there had to be some purpose-made QDs out there, but I hadn't gone looking. Interesting that trying to open any of the product photos on that site triggers my antivirus, though...

For the moment, this Teed setup will work. I have a second bottle of argon, and I may swap the empty for some 75/25.

Doc.

 

[Retroman]

Whats the learning curve on Aluminum ? You could teach a monkey to MIG in a week or less I have heard AL is more difficult as it doesn't pool?

 

[Kaizen]

Took a few minutes to fiddle with the new toy today. Sliced up the gas hoses and added a brass Tee, so both are connected to the one hose.



When I picked up the tee, the local auto parts store had some tie-down straps on clearance, so I got a pair- in blue, no less - for like ten bucks. I hate the chains that let the bottle rattle, so I cut them down to fit. Cinch up to a nice, snug fit.



Got the TIG torch, MIG stinger, ground clamp and footpedal hooked up, dropped in my leftover roll of .024" and an appropriate tip in the stinger, then swapped the supplied Ceriated tungsten with a freshly-ground 3/32" Tri-Mix (purple.)



... And it was at this point that I found out my Argon bottle is almost empty. Still has plenty of flow in the flowmeter, but the tank-pressure gauge needle is still resting solidly on the pin.

I have full spare but this one at least has enough for a quick try-out. Don't laugh, these results are all me:



I just grabbed the nearest chunk of scrap, still covered with mill scale, and because of all the clutter on the welding table, I didn't have very good hand support. The machine itself is incredibly smooth, notably better than my '05-era Miller 180, a difference I put down in no small part to that one being a transformer machine and this one an inverter.

Haven't tried the MIG yet, again, too much clutter on the table, some of it potentially flammable. I'll roll it out front and give it a shot this weekend.

Doc.

That is really impressive to me. i tried tig using the peddle and just can't get the hang of it. tried for my lunch break 30 min for 2 weeks. only thing i got good at was sharpening tungsten.

 

[DocsMachine]

Whats the learning curve on Aluminum ?

-Personally, I found it fairly easy. I already had some background on gas welding, so the potion and technique were largely similar.

My recommendation is to get some 1/8" or so clean aluminum sheet, chop it up into roughly credit-card sized "coupons", and simply sit down and try running beads. Not joining metal, just run a bead on a flat piece. That's what we did when I took a college class on TIG, and I thought it was a good learning experience.

AL is more difficult as it doesn't pool?

-More like the pool doesn't glow. On steel, you get the glowing-yellow weld pool, whereas on aluminum, it just gets shiny. For someone who's used to MIG or stick on steel, it can be a bit of a perception shift, but again, try just some plain beads in aluminum coupons.

I see guys jump right in to trying a T-joint, because that's what they see in YouTube videos. But that's a tricky one even for an experienced tigger* and causes all sorts of frustrations to the new weldor. Plain, flat card, laying flat on the table. Practice 'til you can produce a decent bead, then try some actual seams. (And even there, just a flat **** or lap weld to start with.)

i tried tig using the peddle and just can't get the hang of it. tried for my lunch break 30 min for 2 weeks. only thing i got good at was sharpening tungsten.

-I still dip my tungsten every now and then, too.

I was better at this when I did it a lot more often, but I'm more of a machinist than a weldor, and I don't fabricate as much as I used to. I used to be pretty good at aluminum- not "YouTube expert" level, but decent- but the last time I tried it... well, let's just say the parts held, and we'll call that a win.

Doc.

(*Whether or not you're made out of springs. )