Recommend a Welder for Farm Shop

[seanb02]

Hey folks, was hoping for some input to steer me in some direction towards a replacement welder for the farm shop. Currently been running a Hobart Beta Mig 251 machine, and it has been in use for probably 25 years. Seems to do all the things we need it to do. However, I think I've probably killed it. Was welding up some 3/4" plate onto an implement frame with the amps maxed out, wasn't paying a bit of attention to the duty cycle and now it will barely make enough heat to melt the wire. So I'm going to drop it off at a repair shop, but they informed me that many parts are no longer available for these machines so it may not be repairable.

Perhaps we will get lucky and it is fixable, but I am not going to get my hopes up. So with that in mind, what would be a good comparable machine to replace this thing with? Looks like prices are quite high on welders, so would like to make an informed decision on what to best replace it with. Most of the time we are just using it to weld anything from thin sheet metal up to around 1/2". And since I'm not running a production welding shop, we don't need the biggest fanciest machine out there. Sometimes I'm making up custom implements and use it hard off and on for a couple weeks, other times it won't need used at all for a few months. Suggestions? Thanks!

 

[dnschmidt]

I don't thing it's possible to beat the HTP Propulse 220. One machine that can do it all in both steel and aluminum. Made in Italy by STEL. I've got one and I love it.

 

[speed bump]

A Hobart Ironman 240 would probably be close to equivalent. I would also look at a Lincoln 260 or Millermatic 255. The cash outlay is a higher but they are solid machines.

 

[mikegt4]

Better hurry, I just bought a new welder last month, today I got an email from Cyberweld stating that Miller pricing is going up March 7th. I am sure other manufactures will follow.

 

[oldmachinenut]

A few years ago I thought I had killed my Millermatic 200, It was acting the same way. I opened it up and did some testing. 2 of the large stud diodes were bad, one open and one shorted. I ordered new ones from Mouser or Digikey, can’t remember which. This was a while ago but they were $35.00 each, Miller wanted $85.00 each. I also replaced the capacitor bank(8 caps nearly the size of a coke can) while I was in there. I found nos Mallory mil-spec caps on eBay for $5.00 each.
The welder works great now, better than it ever did. My son welded 1 1/4” hinge pins on his brothers dump bed with it one night. He had it running in spray-transfer, it made some amazing welds.

 

[seanb02]

I don't thing it's possible to beat the HTP Propulse 220. One machine that can do it all in both steel and aluminum. Made in Italy by STEL. I've got one and I love it.

Maybe I've been living under a rock, but I can't recall noticing the HTP name anywhere before. Some great things come out of Italy, but at least for farm equipment I have a heck of a time getting parts for stuff that is made there. I'm heavily leaning towards either a red or blue machine just because they are carried by every welding store that I know of within a reasonable radius of this area, so support should be better on a local level at the very least.

A Hobart Ironman 240 would probably be close to equivalent. I would also look at a Lincoln 260 or Millermatic 255. The cash outlay is a higher but they are solid machines.

I've heard that Hobart isn't what it once was. Miller has dropped them down a few notches in quality to lower the price point, and they are primarily carried in stores like Home Depot and Tractor Supply now. I don't know if there is any truth to that, but if quality really has declined for the Hobart name over the last 25 years then I would like to steer clear. The Ironman 240 certainly has an attractive price point though, and if they are on par in quality with the Hobart machine it would be replacing then this model might certainly be a strong candidate to consider.

I briefly checked out the Miller 255 on Bakersgas website earlier when I was doing some preliminary checking to see what is available, and it does look like a very nice machine. But what confuses me, is why there is so little of a price difference between the 255 and the 252 machines. Shouldn't the fancy one with the LCD screen be a lot more money than the older style with the knobs? Honestly the fancy screen may actually be a drawback for a farm shop due to the environment it can be subject to at times. But also I don't know enough about the modern welding equipment offerings yet to know for sure on that point. It may in fact be the perfect machine for me to look into more. I'll check out the Lincoln 260, I haven't looked at the specs on any red machines yet.

Better hurry, I just bought a new welder last month, today I got an email from Cyberweld stating that Miller pricing is going up March 7th. I am sure other manufactures will follow.

Unfortunately I suspect we will have to eat whatever the price increase is, by the time I get the current machine into the repair place to be diagnosed and if it is in fact pronounced dead then no doubt it will be a week or so out from now before I'm ready to pick up a new machine.

A few years ago I thought I had killed my Millermatic 200, It was acting the same way. I opened it up and did some testing. 2 of the large stud diodes were bad, one open and one shorted. I ordered new ones from Mouser or Digikey, can’t remember which. This was a while ago but they were $35.00 each, Miller wanted $85.00 each. I also replaced the capacitor bank(8 caps nearly the size of a coke can) while I was in there. I found nos Mallory mil-spec caps on eBay for $5.00 each.
The welder works great now, better than it ever did. My son welded 1 1/4” hinge pins on his brothers dump bed with it one night. He had it running in spray-transfer, it made some amazing welds.

Well that is wonderful news to hear, I would certainly like to keep this one for another couple of years before being forced into the upgrade game. Maybe the repair place will find something as simple as you did on your machine. If it doesn't end up getting dropped off tomorrow, perhaps I'll even open up the side panel and do a little testing myself. Was kind of nervous about doing that though since I can't find the original manual for the machine. Would like to see a parts breakdown before taking things apart.

 

[Iron Beaver]

I think Miller and Hobart targeting different markets was court-mandated after ITW bought both companies.

I have heard good things about Everlast. No first hand experience though. I have a Miller multiproces that I love.

 

[Mgdoug3]

I have a stick, mig and tig welders. I just recently got a Lincoln 255 and I use it the most now. I still like having my stick welder when I can't pull something inside the shop and it's windy outside.

 

[corn chip]

me personally i would stay clear of the ebay/amazon/harbor freight/everlast type of welders. tear down videos of these cheaper welders show that some are total garbage from top to bottom. some are slightly better than total junk.

some lower end millers are chinese ,atleast according to a youtube vid i watched, i have no reason to doubt it however. although it was decently constructed with half decent components. mid grade models should get you a machine thats atleast assembled in usa ,albeit with probly decent chinese internals.
whether hobarts are identical to miller or just similar is hard to say. people claim theyre identical but ive yet to see video or photo proof one way or the other. i wouldnt be afraid to have a hobart for moderate farm use. actually it might be my first choice for that task if your on a budget. multi handler 200 does solid or cored wire and stick $1200

htp is the usa importer of stel. good solid machines. constructed well with good components but theyre alot more money than hobart. pricewise theyre similar to miller. atleast for a 200ish amp mig/stick combo machine. if you can justify spending $2k mts210 is probly the direction i personally would go , otherwise i cant see where you would go wrong with hobart.

lincoln ive not a ton of experience with except i know atleast some models are made in mexico. ive no idea about the construction or component qaulity.

esab i know nothing about

 

[sparky 1971]

Most farms around me have nothing but old, rusty, junk equipment and the shops are so full of **** that the farmers can't get anything inside to work on. The old Lincoln tombstone is king of the welders in South Central Iowa. I have a Lincoln 180 mig, it doesn't have the balls to weld the bigger stuff, but I can honestly say that you can't go wrong with Lincoln. It would just have to be a step or two up from mine.

 

[gearhead1]

I’d consider another Hobart.

 

[Firebrick43]

Most farms around me have nothing but old, rusty, junk equipment and the shops are so full of **** that the farmers can't get anything inside to work on. The old Lincoln tombstone is king of the welders in South Central Iowa. I have a Lincoln 180 mig, it doesn't have the balls to weld the bigger stuff, but I can honestly say that you can't go wrong with Lincoln. It would just have to be a step or two up from mine.

Most of the farms here are running new or almost new equipment, no rust at all. They have imaculate shops with every tool possible. Then they call the dealer to have the oil changed with a 150 dollar service call and tell the techs to use what ever they want to. couldn't believe how often it happened when I worked for CaseIH dealer in 2010. Hell, they couldn't sell a demo magnum tractor cause everyone wanted the leather seat that blew cold air up your but and chrome knobs. We installed those and it sold the next day?

 

[IndyGarage]

Maybe I've been living under a rock, but I can't recall noticing the HTP name anywhere before. Some great things come out of Italy, but at least for farm equipment I have a heck of a time getting parts for stuff that is made there. I'm heavily leaning towards either a red or blue machine just because they are carried by every welding store that I know of within a reasonable radius of this area, so support should be better on a local level at the very least.

HTP has great welders. They are out of Chicago and have been around a long time. I had one for awhile and it was very well built.

I've heard that Hobart isn't what it once was. Miller has dropped them down a few notches in quality to lower the price point, and they are primarily carried in stores like Home Depot and Tractor Supply now. I don't know if there is any truth to that, but if quality really has declined for the Hobart name over the last 25 years then I would like to steer clear. The Ironman 240 certainly has an attractive price point though, and if they are on par in quality with the Hobart machine it would be replacing then this model might certainly be a strong candidate to consider.

I haven't heard anyone complain about the quality of their Hobart machine recently. Yes Miller is the premium line and Hobart is more of the budget line, but it's mostly on features. Miller will have continuous knobs while Hobart still has step knobs. Miller has advanced features that Hobart doesn't have. There are some more budget features - more plastic in the wire feeders on the Hobarts.

Honestly some of that electronic stuff is the stuff that breaks and renders them unfixable 10 years down the line, so if you want one that will last another 25 years, you might want to stick with Hobart.

Well that is wonderful news to hear, I would certainly like to keep this one for another couple of years before being forced into the upgrade game. Maybe the repair place will find something as simple as you did on your machine. If it doesn't end up getting dropped off tomorrow, perhaps I'll even open up the side panel and do a little testing myself. Was kind of nervous about doing that though since I can't find the original manual for the machine. Would like to see a parts breakdown before taking things apart.

I had the same experience - one of my old welders started welding erratically and I checked the big capacitors and one of them was bad. Found one on Ebay - I think more like $30 but it fixed the problem.

 

[Gurp]

Unsure of how you feel about stick welding, but the timeless classic of a Lincoln AC 225 is a great workhorse with a solid duty cycle. Huge parts availability design virtually unchanged for many years. Many farmers have burnt thousands of rods through them. And as it added bonus they really won't break the bank either.

 

[seber]

I briefly checked out the Miller 255 on Bakersgas website earlier when I was doing some preliminary checking to see what is available, and it does look like a very nice machine. But what confuses me, is why there is so little of a price difference between the 255 and the 252 machines. Shouldn't the fancy one with the LCD screen be a lot more money than the older style with the knobs? Honestly the fancy screen may actually be a drawback for a farm shop due to the environment it can be subject to at times. But also I don't know enough about the modern welding equipment offerings yet to know for sure on that point. It may in fact be the perfect machine for me to look into more. I'll check out the Lincoln 260, I haven't looked at the specs on any red machines yet.

Actually, the screen is cheaper to build than mechanical. But it is not a product I want on a welder with High amperage fluxes and stiff cables and heavy ends being handled with thick gloves. Seems like a broken part in the offing.

 

[Sycan]

I bought a new Hobart 240 last year and it has been solid, only have 1 spool of wire through it though.

 

[dr_clyde]

Millermatic 255 for your application, hands down.

I did a full review of them for my welding supply house when they came out.

Linky.

NEW Millermatic 255 Welder Review

Hey Guys, I do a lot of welding. In fact, I do welding as my primary method of feeding and sheltering myself, so I have a vested interest in doing it well. As such, my local welding supply is one of my most valuable vendors, and we have a great relationship. So, when I called down there...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[Kscardsfan]

I’m a Miller man myself. They’re not cheap, but they just work. They’re also stupid user friendly as well. But I know a lot of guys running Hobart machines that are in love with them and a lot of guys running Lincoln for Mig welders that bought a bigger machine for the same money as a Miller. I’m like you in that I’d probably go with what my local dealer sells and services out of redundancy and a safety blanket of sorts.

 

[Rinspeed]

I own and prefer Miller but we have had very good luck at the shop with Lincoln.

 

[WJD]

I ended up with two welders in my shop. And old monkey wards 'century' 240v stick welder. I forget the model number but it weighs a ton and welds like nobodies business on the thicker 1/2'' and up stuff. Picked it up for $50 from a co-worker, cleaned it up in and out, added a new ground clamp and rod holder and put'er to work.

The other welder is a 120v Lincoln 140 wire feed, Use the heck out of it for most of the general welding.

 

[corn chip]

i didnt see any mention of budget. if moneys not a factor i would take hobart off the table

 

[MJD1]

I would look for a NOS Miller 252 in that situation. The Lincoln 260 machines are supposed to be good as well. I've heard good things about the 255 millers as well but I take others reviews with a grain of salt as I have no way of telling how hard they use the machine or possibly shilling a particular machine.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I had a Hobart 175 for about 15 years and never gave me an ounce of trouble. I sold it after I updated to a Hobart Ironman 230. . . last one the local TSC had before it was replaced with the 240. Saved me a few hundred bucks and bought the spool gun from Cybetweld for $100 less than the spool gun for the 240 cost.

No issue with blue welders but the tan ones are more in line with my budget as a DIY guy. My back up is a tried and true Lincoln tombstone, something I thought every farm had

I'd look at Cybetweld for prices, I would bet that they are the cheapest. I know they beat all others on the Hobart 27i plasma cutter.

 

[Rinspeed]

I'd look at Cybetweld for prices, I would bet that they are the cheapest. I know they beat all others on the Hobart 27i plasma cutter.

I believe you're spelling Cyberweld wrong, maybe autocorrect.

 

[seanb02]

Most farms around me have nothing but old, rusty, junk equipment and the shops are so full of **** that the farmers can't get anything inside to work on. The old Lincoln tombstone is king of the welders in South Central Iowa. I have a Lincoln 180 mig, it doesn't have the balls to weld the bigger stuff, but I can honestly say that you can't go wrong with Lincoln. It would just have to be a step or two up from mine.

Well that's quite a description of farm shops! Not true in my case, I've put a huge amount of work into the shop to make it functional and efficient for equipment repairs. While we do run a lot of older equipment, I've managed to get on top of most of it so that breakdowns are less common than they used to be. And we have a lot of newer equipment as well.

Most of the farms here are running new or almost new equipment, no rust at all. They have imaculate shops with every tool possible. Then they call the dealer to have the oil changed with a 150 dollar service call and tell the techs to use what ever they want to. couldn't believe how often it happened when I worked for CaseIH dealer in 2010. Hell, they couldn't sell a demo magnum tractor cause everyone wanted the leather seat that blew cold air up your but and chrome knobs. We installed those and it sold the next day?

We've got a mix of old and new stuff. For a lot of the ground working equipment you just can't beat the efficiency of the newer implements that are available now and productivity is much higher with GPS capability. However I do all of the maintenance myself and avoid calling the dealer if at all possible.

 

[seanb02]

Thanks for all the input! I'm leaning heavily towards a Miller 252 if the Hobart can't be repaired. We've got stick welders as a backup, but they almost never get used due to the convenience and weld quality of using Mig. I haven't ever needed to work with aluminum, so for now a spool gun is not needed.

Interestingly enough the welding shop that is working on the Hobart quoted me the same price that Cyberweld has on the Miller machine. I wonder if Miller sets the pricing rather than the dealer?

 

[Mgdoug3]

A Miller is a great choice and if you're leaning towards a 252 you won't regret it. Since I have purchased a mig I'm amazed how much time I save. I wished I would have bought a mig welder years ago.

 

[gearhead1]

I bought an Ironman 240 last year. I called tech support because I could not find what size liner it shipped with anywhere in the documentation. The tech support guy had to go look and I chit chatted with him while he walked to the lab. I told him I had a Miller 180 I sold to a friend and I wanted more amps. He told me it was essentially a Miller 252 without the digital readouts.

Some on here are going to say the Hobart is cheaper parts, some on here are going to say they’re the same parts as a Miller. I don’t know one way or the other, but I have no reason to believe the tech support guy was lying…..

 

[dr_clyde]

If you’re wanting a 252, just get a 255 and get a LOT more functionality for the same money.

 

[Sumboodie]

I think Miller and Hobart targeting different markets was court-mandated after ITW bought both companies.

I have heard good things about Everlast. No first hand experience though. I have a Miller multiproces that I love.

I have an Everlast plasma cutter.

No real gripes. It's Chinese so has the usual "not quite 100%" on design, fitment, etc. Fan is stupid loud too, even when outside with it

But it cuts fine, and was about 1/2 the price of a Thermal Dynamics.

 

[seanb02]

If you’re wanting a 252, just get a 255 and get a LOT more functionality for the same money.

I’m fully open to being convinced otherwise, but my biggest concern is the LCD display. For a proper fab shop that uses their machines constantly and replace every 5-10 years I doubt there would be any issues. However I am looking for a 20-25 year lifespan, and how is that screen going to be doing after that long of a time frame? While I may run a squared away shop, there are other occasional users who are more careless than I am - the types who will use anything as a hammer sort of folks. So in my mind it seems that knobs would be more robust than a screen.

Also I have no problem learning the user interface and the features of the machine, but what about a seasonal hire who comes in to make a few quick welds? Is it simple enough for non tech savvy folks to figure out without spending an hour reading the manual first?

Just some thoughts I have, and I agree with you that there is no doubt that the 255 is much more machine for a negligible price difference. But for our use scenario I’m not entirely certain it is the best choice. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks

 

[seanb02]

I bought an Ironman 240 last year. I called tech support because I could not find what size liner it shipped with anywhere in the documentation. The tech support guy had to go look and I chit chatted with him while he walked to the lab. I told him I had a Miller 180 I sold to a friend and I wanted more amps. He told me it was essentially a Miller 252 without the digital readouts.

Some on here are going to say the Hobart is cheaper parts, some on here are going to say they’re the same parts as a Miller. I don’t know one way or the other, but I have no reason to believe the tech support guy was lying…..

Interesting to hear. I was getting the impression that the older Hobart machines like the one we have had much more overlap with the Miller machines than the current offerings do. But it sounds like this may be the wrong assumption… perhaps more research is in order on my end.

 

[Iron Beaver]

I have seen Hobart and Miller welders on sale. Can't speak for the internals but some Hobart welders have plastic wire feeders where Miller uses metal. That was a few years ago so things may have changed

 

[dr_clyde]

Miller’s machines are designed to be used in an industrial fabrication environment, I have full confidence their display will be ok in a farm shop. Mine has been in a full time fab shop for several years and shows no problem. Did you really think Miller would make a product that wouldn’t last in the shop?

You do need to use your noodle and not do dumb stuff like spray it with cutting torch dross, etc. This goes for any machine, and is just good stewardship of equipment.

I’ll check when I get to the shop, but I’m pretty sure the screen has a replaceable cover over it anyway.

As far as usability, if you can turn a power switch on and read, it’s WAY easier to use than any other welder I’ve seen. It literally shows you a diagram with labels on screen how to set it up. Most of the time it’s still just turn on the gas, set the amps and weld. No extra menus or anything needed.

If you’re hiring the kind of people who can’t pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel, well, maybe a Lincoln buzz box is the welder for you.

Seems weird to me to hinder yourself and your shop based on the inabilities of others who MIGHT work for you.

 

[Terra Nova]

I have seen Hobart and Miller welders on sale. Can't speak for the internals but some Hobart welders have plastic wire feeders where Miller uses metal. That was a few years ago so things may have changed

Hobart plastic drive rollers has got to be one of the top three internet myths out there. Would love to see some pictures or documentation on that....

Can't add much for the OP that hasn't been stated. If you like the 255 I wouldn't worry too much about the LCD vs knobs. They'll both have pretty much the same amount of electronics inside. LCD screens can be pretty durable. But it sounds like the 252 will suit your needs just fine. If you're looking for a 20-25yr welder the Ironman 240 may actually be your best bet. It's stone simple compared with the 255 or even 252. Mechanical components are easy/relatively cheap to replace. Circuit boards and displays are trickier (and get obsoleted).

 

[corn chip]

lcd screens atleast on a high qaulity machine , are very durable. my work truck has a miller 302 trail blazer. was manufacted in 2011. its outside everday in the sun ,rain ,snow , wind , mud. temps below zero. not a single problem with it

 

[Firebrick43]

I have been around big CC/CV sourced migs and syncrowaves (miller). A lot of them are now 20+ years old with no issues from the screens.

The syncrowave 180 that I personally own is 18 ish years old. It could vote the next election!

 

[seanb02]

Well, to update this thread, the welding store called me today and declared the Hobart a boat anchor due to unavailable parts. They recommended the 252 for my uses, but had neither that one or the 255 in stock and said it would be about a 5 week wait to get one in. So I called my regular welding store (they don't repair machines and had pointed me to the other place originally), and they also recommended the 252 and had one in stock. So now I've got it sitting in the shop ready to put together and get back to welding. Maybe I'll be kicking myself later for not getting the 255, but I'm at least quite certain it will be a good step up from the old Hobart it is replacing.

Thanks to everyone for all the input in this thread!

 

[Snapped-off]

Well, to update this thread, the welding store called me today and declared the Hobart a boat anchor due to unavailable parts. They recommended the 252 for my uses, but had neither that one or the 255 in stock and said it would be about a 5 week wait to get one in. So I called my regular welding store (they don't repair machines and had pointed me to the other place originally), and they also recommended the 252 and had one in stock. So now I've got it sitting in the shop ready to put together and get back to welding. Maybe I'll be kicking myself later for not getting the 255, but I'm at least quite certain it will be a good step up from the old Hobart it is replacing.

Thanks to everyone for all the input in this thread!

 

[Mgdoug3]

I don't blame you for not waiting. Being without a welder in a farm shop really *****.