Recommend Jack Stands?
- Thread starter Bolster
- Start date
Cool.
Those "accidents waiting to happen" are used only on concrete floors. Rated at 5-tons each, they lift a 3000 pound C6 Corvette just fine at the preferred lifting points. Not sure what Canadian shops look like, but they are extremely stable and work well in my Texas garage (However, they are market made in the USA and not for use by Canadians
). As for your "professional techs", I doubt they use low profile jack stands in your shop (And, I can't believe any "professional" shop would allow a tech to work under jack stands). They are used at a 10-inch lift when removing the tires for brake and/or suspension work (accessed at the wheel well in newer Corvettes). I certainly NEVER work under ANY jack stand. But, you could push the car off with a tractor and the stands would still be upright.
How ratcheting stands work when in good condition is not an issue. If you bother to check, ratcheting stands fail because the ratcheting mechanism fails (which according to OSHA is a greater risk and produces more accidents than pin style stands).
wreckercologist
Well-known member
Cool.
Those "accidents waiting to happen" are used only on concrete floors. Rated at 5-tons each, they lift a 3000 pound C6 Corvette just fine at the preferred lifting points. Not sure what Canadian shops look like, but they are extremely stable and work well in my Texas garage (However, they are market made in the USA and not for use by Canadians
As for your "professional techs", I doubt they use low profile jack stands in your shop (And, I can't believe any "professional" shop would allow a tech to work under jack stands). They are used at a 10-inch lift when removing the tires for brake and/or suspension work (accessed at the wheel well in newer Corvettes). I certainly NEVER work under ANY jack stand. But, you could push the car off with a tractor and the stands would still be upright.
How ratcheting stands work when in good condition is not an issue. If you bother to check, ratcheting stands fail because the ratcheting mechanism fails (which according to OSHA is a greater risk and produces more accidents than pin style stands).
I've had that happen to me when I whose installing them and going threw my safety check it fell down. At that time I placed the stand where it would be and raised it up. I didn't have the car high enough and it partially locked in.
I don't like the lever models either. I prefer the pin type. I will usually have the jack in place for backup.
djb2
Well-known member
The screw ones look the least safe of the ones pictured. They rely on all of the welds being good. A single bad weld could lead to a cascading failure, or stress and cracking of the other welds over time. A safer design would transfer the weight through the center tube to the ground, not at an angle through the welds. But then they would have the problem of stands with a flat metal base -- an uneven floor could lead to rocking.
Thats just the name of the dealer THR www.THRepp.de
there is another thread about these stands were i posted the info that a german manufacturer makes them www.weber.de
The black one from my pic is imported from China i guess.
The ratchet style jacks have a welded base too.....
I claim a welded screw style stand like the Weber stand "made in germany" i posted above is stronger and better than a chinese stand with chinese welds and chinese cast steel.
Usually hydraulic stuff or lifting equipment is tested up to 4 times (or so) the load capacity so a 1,5 Ton stand is tested with 6 tons, 3 ton with 12 ton etc. so I´m pretty shure and confident that they will hold up.
caper
Well-known member
As for your "professional techs", I doubt they use low profile jack stands in your shop (And, I can't believe any "professional" shop would allow a tech to work under jack stands). They are used at a 10-inch lift when removing the tires for brake and/or suspension work (accessed at the wheel well in newer Corvettes). I certainly NEVER work under ANY jack stand. But, you could push the car off with a tractor and the stands would still be upright.
How ratcheting stands work when in good condition is not an issue. If you bother to check, ratcheting stands fail because the ratcheting mechanism fails (which according to OSHA is a greater risk and produces more accidents than pin style stands).
Well luckily us Canadians don't have OSHA to tell us how to work.I work in a heavy truck shop,ALL our work is done on vehicles with stands.Single and tandem trucks with booms and service bodies fully loaded.I know what to check for and what usually breaks on a stand.All our jacks and stands are inspected yearly by an outside contractor.They come to our shop and load every stand with a hydraulic press to rated capacity.Last year 5 stands failed the yearly safety inspection.3 ratchet type and 2 pin type.All the ratchet type were failed because of the top spreading from dropping the shaft by flipping the handle and letting the shaft drop when releasing the stand at the end of a job.The pin type were failed for bent shafts.I've never seen a ratchet mechanism fail on a stand in 20 yrs working as a tech.If your stands work for you and your happy with them good for you.I know the heavier version we have at work is EXTREMELY tippy when extended and nobody will use them.The flat plate on the bottom only works on really flat floors.Shops that have a taper to the floor drain make them sit off plumb and it gets hairy.I'm not trying to pick a fight I'm just telling you what my experience has been with that design.Not everybody has nice flat floors.If a guy tries to use that style stand in a gravel driveway he's in a precarious situation.OSHA approved or not.Sometimes common sense and experience is something a government agency doesn't have-Canadian or American.
These are what we have and they sit collecting dust.
http://www.strongarminc.com/product.php?lang=en&ModelNumber=878A&ID=31
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Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Look at the teeth on the riser in this pic. I even saved the pic and blew it up to try and get a better look at the teeth. They look ill formed to me. The underside of the teeth should have a horizontal to downward cut to them that captures the pawl in the jackstand. Most of these teeth appear to be pyramid shaped and the pawl would only weakly catch in the notch, requiring little force to get the pawl to lift out of it.
I have 8 ratchet type 6 ton jackstands that pull out to 24 inches. Four are old Walkers, American made, two heavy stamped halves welded together and the top collar added. Two came from the flea market, and two came from the estate of a friend. I bead blasted all of them and inspected and repainted them.
I have four more of a slightly different design, also ratchet, made up of welded angle material making a fairly open frame, with the top collar welded on. They are American made, about 35 years old and I've owned them since new.
I have four Snap On 3 ton stands also made from welded angles. They are ratcheting and have feet welded on the corners so they don't tear up the floor with sharp edges. They are made from heavier material than nearly identical stands I've found in parts places and elsewhere.
I have two more stands the size of the Snap On stands but rated at 4 ton. They are NAPA, ratcheting type, made from two stamped steel halves welded together with the top collar. These have the deep notch in the middle of the riser head, probably to fit on the pinch welds of some cars. I try never to lift on a pinch weld, I've had idiots at tire places damage my pinch welds when there is a heavy flat box structure about 6 inches inboard that can be lifted on.
Pics later.
Charles
I have 8 ratchet type 6 ton jackstands that pull out to 24 inches. Four are old Walkers, American made, two heavy stamped halves welded together and the top collar added. Two came from the flea market, and two came from the estate of a friend. I bead blasted all of them and inspected and repainted them.
I have four more of a slightly different design, also ratchet, made up of welded angle material making a fairly open frame, with the top collar welded on. They are American made, about 35 years old and I've owned them since new.
I have four Snap On 3 ton stands also made from welded angles. They are ratcheting and have feet welded on the corners so they don't tear up the floor with sharp edges. They are made from heavier material than nearly identical stands I've found in parts places and elsewhere.
I have two more stands the size of the Snap On stands but rated at 4 ton. They are NAPA, ratcheting type, made from two stamped steel halves welded together with the top collar. These have the deep notch in the middle of the riser head, probably to fit on the pinch welds of some cars. I try never to lift on a pinch weld, I've had idiots at tire places damage my pinch welds when there is a heavy flat box structure about 6 inches inboard that can be lifted on.
Pics later.
Charles
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X1 Mike
Well-known member
I’m surprised that no one has suggested big blocks of oak.
nate379
Banned
I have many sets, local farm store, Sears, Goodyear (from Costco I think), HF, etc, etc. All of them are pretty much the same thing. Would not be surprised if they all all made in the same China factory.
The bigger ones I have are 6 ton, but I'd need some 12 ton for the height. I have to put the 6 ton ones on cribbing sometimes since they are barely tall enough for my Jeep and one truck. They only go maybe ~24" high.
The bigger ones I have are 6 ton, but I'd need some 12 ton for the height. I have to put the 6 ton ones on cribbing sometimes since they are barely tall enough for my Jeep and one truck. They only go maybe ~24" high.
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redsky49
Well-known member
mtkst19
Well-known member
this thread spurred conversation today at the garage as a few of the guys are lurkers on here. So we put a hf 3 ton stand in my USA made 20 ton shop press--not a little rinky dink hf style press .
i could not lift the pin. we tried, just would not happen. for the ratchet to let the arm drop, it needed to go up a certain point to clear the teeth. everyone who was there felt the pin that holds the handle to the cam would shear before we could get the actual thing to fail.
then we backed the press off a little to have no load on the stand. but again, not enough room to let the ratchet go fully up to allow the extension piece to drop. Again, we could not get it to fail. As the extension piece would raise up, hit against the press, then stop--not letting it "unlock"
moral, i'll use the hf ratchet style stand.
. i could not lift the pin. we tried, just would not happen. for the ratchet to let the arm drop, it needed to go up a certain point to clear the teeth. everyone who was there felt the pin that holds the handle to the cam would shear before we could get the actual thing to fail.
then we backed the press off a little to have no load on the stand. but again, not enough room to let the ratchet go fully up to allow the extension piece to drop. Again, we could not get it to fail. As the extension piece would raise up, hit against the press, then stop--not letting it "unlock"
moral, i'll use the hf ratchet style stand.
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
Question since I've seen something similar a few posts up: is there a good source (US made, perhaps?) for the screw type ones that don't have the awful "RV jack" bases? I've seen what looked like some very vintage ones in the background pics of a nice garage on here before, but I don't see anything in the market today that has the kind of base I'd prefer. I like how adjustable the screw types are and can imagine a few instances where they'd have been really, really useful if I could have found them.
RustFarmer
Well-known member
OTC 3 ton, $139 pair,
Recessed column saddle for acceptance of vehicle panel rail (pinch weld). Height range of 12-1/2" to 18-1/2". Made in the U.S.A.. Lifetime Marathon Warranty®. Sold in pairs.
http://www.jcwhitney.com/ratcheting-jack-stands/p2010675.jcwx?skuId=331218&filterid=j1
Free Shipping through labor day, (you will pay a $4 heavy item surcharge)
Recessed column saddle for acceptance of vehicle panel rail (pinch weld). Height range of 12-1/2" to 18-1/2". Made in the U.S.A.. Lifetime Marathon Warranty®. Sold in pairs.
http://www.jcwhitney.com/ratcheting-jack-stands/p2010675.jcwx?skuId=331218&filterid=j1
Free Shipping through labor day, (you will pay a $4 heavy item surcharge)
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Sick Puppy
Well-known member
Ha, you think you guys have problems? Ours are all the same- Repco/ Team Mechanix, Powerbuilt, Torin and Wayco all look the same- ratchet type only, and bottle ones for Trucks etc. Look exactly the same as the cheap no-name brands we find on eBay/ Trademe, and go for about $30-50NZ respectively (about US$21-35). The stands sold at one retail store have had about four recalls over the last few years... guess where I'm not going?
There are no pin-type ones sold here, and only one double action pin/ ratchet one, and you guessed it, it's a cheap no-name one.
Don't mind paying the $$$, but price point seems to be such an issue with NZers. [shrugs]
There are no pin-type ones sold here, and only one double action pin/ ratchet one, and you guessed it, it's a cheap no-name one.
Don't mind paying the $$$, but price point seems to be such an issue with NZers. [shrugs]
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I would love to have some of the stands shown in the other posts. I'd like to have a lift too.
In the mean time, here is what I use. If the orange HF 6 ton units will fit I use them. Then its the 3 ton MVP SUV blue stands. And finally for low and light work, the HF 3 ton aluminum.
I'm just guessing, but I'd bet most accidents are operator error, misuse and abuse. Some stands are clearly better than others, but low cost stands can be well made. All stands need to be used within their limits, inspected before each use by the user, and put under a solid part of the vehicle and on solid ground.
For my truck I use my ramps for oil changes. The ramp part detaches so you have good access. I can't use them on most passenger cars, because the front air dams rub before the wheels hit the ramp.
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In the mean time, here is what I use. If the orange HF 6 ton units will fit I use them. Then its the 3 ton MVP SUV blue stands. And finally for low and light work, the HF 3 ton aluminum.
I'm just guessing, but I'd bet most accidents are operator error, misuse and abuse. Some stands are clearly better than others, but low cost stands can be well made. All stands need to be used within their limits, inspected before each use by the user, and put under a solid part of the vehicle and on solid ground.
For my truck I use my ramps for oil changes. The ramp part detaches so you have good access. I can't use them on most passenger cars, because the front air dams rub before the wheels hit the ramp.
I thought there is a pin that connects the lever to the release that is suppose to shear; therby preventing any release under load. If you pull up the lever with a load on it, you may end up having to buy a new shear pin.
That's probably when the problems start, guys will just slip a old bolt in there, instead of getting a shear pin.
nate379
Banned
It's not possible on any that I have because you need to lift up on the saddle a little bit to be able to lift the ratchet part.
I don't have the HFs right now, but the other ones I have are made just like the HF ones.
In other words even if there is not much weight on it, you can't pull the handle to drop the stand. I think even 50lbs would be too much.
For the pinch weld I took an 8ft 2x4, threw a Dado blade in the table saw and ripped a rabbit down the center about 5/8" wide and 1" deep. Cut them into ~16-18" pieces and that's what I have been using. Not sure if it would work on every car, but works on my WRX and Jetta. (only 2 things I have without a frame)
I don't have the HFs right now, but the other ones I have are made just like the HF ones.
In other words even if there is not much weight on it, you can't pull the handle to drop the stand. I think even 50lbs would be too much.
For the pinch weld I took an 8ft 2x4, threw a Dado blade in the table saw and ripped a rabbit down the center about 5/8" wide and 1" deep. Cut them into ~16-18" pieces and that's what I have been using. Not sure if it would work on every car, but works on my WRX and Jetta. (only 2 things I have without a frame)
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Basskiller
Well-known member
joeswamp
Well-known member
I like how all these German stands, regardless of design, have these little square feet already welded to the legs so you don't mess up your floor. Why the heck don't all stands have this feature??? You guys seem to have a monopoly on the really good stuff.
I would _really_ like to get some of those screw top stands. I emailed Samstag sales about the Rodcraft model we talked about before and he said Rodcraft woudn't do small orders -- all he could do was have an agent buy them retail in Germany and send them over here. Something like $300 per set with a two month delivery time.
I just need to save a ton of money, wait til the exchange rate is right, and then take a big shopping trip over there and ship a container back of all these great tools.
joeswamp
Well-known member
For a given footprint diameter, more legs is more stable. You've got to spread three legs out more to make them as stable as four legs.
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
joeswamp
Well-known member
Three legs are better at dealing with uneven ground. But we're talking about stability, which is resistance to tipping over. This is why chairs have four legs and work stools often have five.
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
stability will depend on how level the surface is now won't it....
i have never worked on a piece of concrete that was perfectly level. that being said all of my stands are 4 legged, and they will rock on certain spots on my floor. is it safe? yeah.....but would three legged stand be more stable? yeah......does it matter? probabaly not. but my answer will be the same
btw my shop stools have 4 legs and they will rock easier on any place in the shop because the legs are wider.
I noticed nobody has said anything about ALUMINUM stands.
dangerous?
More expensive, lighter, not quite as durable, but nothing close to dangerous.
I like how all these German stands, regardless of design, have these little square feet already welded to the legs so you don't mess up your floor. Why the heck don't all stands have this feature??? You guys seem to have a monopoly on the really good stuff.
I would _really_ like to get some of those screw top stands. I emailed Samstag sales about the Rodcraft model we talked about before and he said Rodcraft woudn't do small orders -- all he could do was have an agent buy them retail in Germany and send them over here. Something like $300 per set with a two month delivery time.
I just need to save a ton of money, wait til the exchange rate is right, and then take a big shopping trip over there and ship a container back of all these great tools.
One Rodcraft stand cost 133.28 € x 2 = 266.56€ . Shipping to USA 65.- € = 331.56 € = $ 426.83
so $300.- would be a good price kythri
Well-known member
ever wonder why photographers use a TRIpod?
think about it before you answer
I'd be more curious why they use MONOpods...
Well, not really. The comparison between photographic tripods and jack stands really isn't the same thing - the legs on jackstands aren't adjustable.
e-tek
Well-known member
Hmmmm....I only see round and triangular feet - am I missing something?
As for stability, it's all what you're used to I guess. My Dad's shop almost exclusively used split rear ends for jack stands. Often, when pulling on a car (frame or body repair), the stand would tip onto one side. A stiff rap with a sledge sliding across the floor to correct it and back to work!
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
yes and no.......photographic tripods wouldn't need to be adjustable if they were only used indoors. other than that it's the same thing
wreckercologist
Well-known member
My Dad's shop almost exclusively used split rear ends for jack stands. Often, when pulling on a car (frame or body repair), the stand would tip onto one side. A stiff rap with a sledge sliding across the floor to correct it and back to work!
I've got a set of those I still use once in a while.
joeswamp
Well-known member
stability will depend on how level the surface is now won't it....
i have never worked on a piece of concrete that was perfectly level. that being said all of my stands are 4 legged, and they will rock on certain spots on my floor. is it safe? yeah.....but would three legged stand be more stable? yeah......does it matter? probabaly not. but my answer will be the same
btw my shop stools have 4 legs and they will rock easier on any place in the shop because the legs are wider.
You bring up a really good point, which is that rocking on a wavy floor can act as a disturbance in destabilizing a stand.
What I was talking about was something different: "How much can a stand lean before it goes over." This is proportional to the distance between the center of the stand and the midpoint of the lines that connect the feet. If you want to match this distance between a three legged stand and a four legged stand, you need the feet on the three legged stand to stick out a lot more like in Monte's picture above. But maybe this is OK.
This distance, incidentally, is why wheeled office chairs often have five legs instead of four, because the designer is trying to maximize how much you can lean in the chair without it tipping over, while at the same time keeping the chair's footprint small.
My current really junky stands are three legged and I've been thinking of upgrading to four legs, so I never really thought of this issue and I'm kind of glad you brought it up. Maybe I will stick with three...
joeswamp
Well-known member
You are correct, I should have just said "feet". My current stands do not have them and so they gouge anything they sit on.
So add some like Elroy did in post 37 above.
joeswamp
Well-known member
One Rodcraft stand cost 133.28 € x 2 = 266.56€ . Shipping to USA 65.- € = 331.56 € = $ 426.83
Thanks for that info. He actually said he had no idea what the price would be, but that since a Hazet 217-3/2 set lists for $167.96 , he figured the normal Rodcraft cost would be about the same and $300 is roughly double that.
So his estimate was probably a little off.
joeswamp
Well-known member
Which I will probably do. My point was really to emphasize that more jack stand manufacturers should think like Elroy.