Recommendations on HVAC

[Todd.Brock]

Hey all, I had an A/C tuneup done last night and they told me the heat exchanger is cracked. He said Goodman is notorious for that. I have a CK30-IT A/C system and a GMP0753 Furnace. Its 14 years old original to the house. Its a 1750 sq.ft. 2 story built in 1997. The basement is finished. (why did I find 2 nail pops with rusty nail heads?)

The tech recommended Trane. He said, you know its hard to stop a trane! Cute...but I need advise on how to pick a good HVAC installer and more importantly what brand, SEER rating and effieciency, etc... Thanks for all the help, I knew this was coming eventually, just not this fall. They quoted 900 to replace the Heat Exchanger so its a full replacement time.

 

[rickairmedic]

Todd Trane is not what it used to be and they are easy to stop now . Carrier is also living on their reputation. I personally prefer Goodman myself. I will admit my markup isnt as good on Goodman however I see fewer problems with them than with anything else out there . They are the only manufacturer out there that will give you a 10 year parts and labor warranty for $99.00 per piece of equipment . You can go to their website to get a list of authorised goodcare dealers in your area . Your weather is pretty much the same as mine so I woould recomend a 95% furnace with a heat pump instead of an AC unit .


http://www.goodmanmfg.com/



Rick

 

[Todd.Brock]

Rick, Thanks for the insight. I plan on getting 3 estimates. I am working from the existing company, and referrals from friends. I will mention the heatpump system. Do they cool the same in the summer time?

 

[HVAC Phil]

Stay away from the serpentine style heat exchangers, they rust, crack more common than stamped style. Also, is the ductwork in the house adequate? It could be running hot, thus causing the crack. And i agree, Trane *****.

I agree with Rick, go with atleast a 2stage 90% furnace with a heat pump. That's what i have in my house, saves gas big time.

 

[rickairmedic]

Todd yes a properly sized " and installed " heat pump will cool just as well as an AC unit but it will pay for itself in gas savings as where an AC unit will only cost you money in the summer .

Rick

 

[Todd.Brock]

Rick/Phil,
I am getting a total of 3 estimates next week. I will have them look at the duct work. I assume its not as ideal as it could be, being a builders grade system, etc.... I will take a hard look at the heat pump. All the folks I have been talking to in the neighborhood have been around 6500-7000 for installed pricing. I would like to keep this at about 8k. I need to see a quote to try and make sense of what install vs. materials looks like. What kind of things are red flags on the estimates? I will post them up here next week.

 

[rickairmedic]

Todd as far as what to look for . I am pretty sure there are license requirements in your area so make sure the guys comming to do your install will be licensed . I personally put in mostly 13 SEER heat pumps with 95% furnaces here in Louisville . I have done some number crunching locally with differant setups and our local energy rates and have found this setup gives the best bang for the buck as well as being a system that will pay for itself the quickest . The main things you want to see on your estimates is what they are putting in and what else they are going to do as part of the install. They most likely will not break down the prices by equipment and labor . They may break it down by equipment and extra things they will be doing . Once you have your estimates put them up here and we can have a look see . I will recomend that you go to Lowes or Home depot and get yourself some carbon monoxide detectors ( I recomend the ones that plug into an outlet and have a digital readout ) . You want one on each floor of the house and the one on the floor with the master bedroom should be in the master bedroom .


Rick

 

[HVAC Phil]

Like Rick said, post up the estimates. We can take a glance at them, help decipher them and offer advice. Also as Danski said, the duct work must be right, return and supply. Most ductwork is either undersized or overkill. Bigger is not better. Heres a quickie test, turn the a/c on. With the filter installed, does it sound like the furnace is whistling? If it is, most likely you are lite on return. This will cause many problems, which could of led to the cracked heat exchanger(if it really is cracked).

 

[brewchief]

You said the basement is finished, is there room to vent a 90%+ furnace? Is the lineset buried above a drywall ceiling? Can a new thermostat wire be pulled?

All these can be factors that may sway your choices one way or another.

Whatever you decide on I would recommend a good air filter to protect your investment, we use a lot of Aprilaire filters but there are plenty of other good choices.

I would recommend a 95%+ furnace and heat pump, in almost all cases I would use a variable speed motor, if the duct work needs work then fix it.

Check with your local utilities to see if they are offering any rebates.


FWIW we see a lot of furnaces with failed heat exchangers, goodman and all others, some brands had a problem with the stamped rings that hold the exchanger together breaking. We use the Visible Defects system to find cracks, works great and finds lots of cracks that you could not see without complete disasembly.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Hey guys, thanks for all the information. Danski, that is great information to read. I appreciate the time it took for all of that. They did a visual inspection. There was a part pulled out and you could see a small 1/4" flame shooting out. It looked like a small candle but with a precise point like it was under pressure (If that makes sense) They said that Goodman's are famous for that. I dont know if its still under warranty or not.

My basement is finished. I have a straight shot from the utility room to the outside of the house for the PVC pipes. They can run along a soffit I have boxed in for the trunk line already. I will have to box in around it. The soffitt will grow by about 6 inches. I would like to run the new line set in that same soffit through a pvc pipe or something to protect the drywall. The current line set is in drywall there is plastic underneath it to keep it from dripping on the drywall. The new lineset will come out about 3 feet out away from the current spot. Some might ask why I didnt do a drop ceiling, but 3.5 years ago I decided on drywall knowing that not if, but when something happens I will have to drag out the mud and taping knives...

I talked to a contractor yesterday that is a dealer for Westinghouse. I guess its a rebranded Nordyne Unit? He hadnt done a heat pump yet but thought it would save money, he guessed. He is the only one who told me about the rebates. I knew there were federal, but was not aware utility company.

Last, for comparison sake, I called a parts house here in town and they are 314 on the HX. I checked sears parts direct and the same part number is $132. I have replaced the flame sensor, cleaned the blower, etc. I am a slow and methodical, is it possible/safe for me to just replace the HX on my own? My neighbor is an hvac guy who works at a country club as the physical plant manager. He does all his own stuff and would be willing to help. At those prices, it may be something to consider vs. a full replacement.

 

[rickairmedic]

Todd the HX should be under warranty if you can get me the model and serial numbers off of the unit I can verify for you . I could also get it for you if it is under warranty if you dont mind a quick drive to Louisville .

Rick

 

[Todd.Brock]

Thats pretty cool of you Rick! I would be up for a drive! The AC is CK30-IT Serial# 9709001080. The furnace is GMP-0753 Serial #970829885

 

[Trey T]

When getting a quote, ask for an itemized quote for the task and material so everything is apparent.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Rick,

I'm curious what you think the break even point on gas vs electric heating is. While I would agree that a few years ago the hybrid systems made a lot of sense, what I'm seeing now is a greater than 3:1 ratio on electric price vs gas price, in fact it is more like 4:1 in areas served by rural electric systems (coops).

My view? As more and more coal fired powerplants get shuttered, more and more very expensive "sustainable" energy is brought on line, more and more (fairly inefficient) gas turbine units get brought online, more and more money gets pumped into power distribution systems (so called "smart grid), power rates are headed to the stratosphere.

Gas may go up too, but at least that isn't "baked into the cake" already.

Just as an example, my power provider (a large North Carolina based concern) is estimating a 17% increase in power prices due to A SINGLE CLEAN ENERGY PROJECT here in Indiana (for Indiana customers). That's the first project of many.

It's tough to figure out where the breakeven is on a high efficiency heat pump because the COP ranges based on the temperature difference indoor/outdoor. But I think that calculation is going to rapidly approach the point where it will be moot because gas will ALWAYS be cheaper. In fact, I'm not sure we're not already there.

Is it quite a bit more to go with a heat pump for a/c? How do the operating (and maintenance) costs compare for cooling only? Does the heat pump also save you money in the summer? I'm just curious. One of these days I'm going to need to do something with the cooling side of my split system myself.

Phil

 

[rickairmedic]

Phill the last time I did the math " which honhestly has been a couple of years ago " . The heat pump should have paid for itself within 5 years of use . I dont markup huge on the heatpump just mydifferance in cost over a standard AC unit which usually works out to $500.00-$700.00 which most of my customers have gotten back in 2 heating seasons . I set the changeover point at 35*



Todd I will call my supplier tomorrow morning and check on your heat exchanger . I would bet it had a 25 year HX warranty on it so you should be golden . I will let ya know tomorrow night and we can PM info from there for you to pick it up . I am pretty sure if you are tool handy you can put it in with no problems .


Rick

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Phill the last time I did the math " which honhestly has been a couple of years ago " . The heat pump should have paid for itself within 5 years of use . I dont markup huge on the heatpump just mydifferance in cost over a standard AC unit which usually works out to $500.00-$700.00 which most of my customers have gotten back in 2 heating seasons . I set the changeover point at 35*

Rick

2 years ago the NYMEX was like $12.00 per DTH of natural gas. Today, it closed at $3.95 per DTH. In the meantime, power rates for some people are up 30% or more. Time to do the math again.

I DO LIKE the idea of checking it each winter and setting the changeover based on that. Seems like a very smart idea. But...most consumers aren't going to be educated enough to do that.

Phil

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

You will eliminate two of three contractors by asking to see a sample of their computor generated heat load. A properly sized unit will last longer, burn less fuel and make you more comfortable than the typical drive-by bidder.