Recommendations on Square and Rule

[yuanzichen]

Hey guys,

I am a first-time home owner and want to buy some tools with decent quality but not hurt my wallet too much. What's a better brand for square and rule to be an upgrade of basic HD ones? What types and sizes are essential for around-the-house DIY jobs? Thanks in advance for y'all recommendations!

 

[cvairwerks]

Carpentry or layout work? Big difference in accuracy and needs.

 

[yuanzichen]

Could you please go through both? I wanted to buy one set of a brand and call it a day, but if it cost a fortune to get a carpentry set. I would step down to layout grade and maybe buy better ones when the need arises.

Carpentry or layout work? Big difference in accuracy and needs.

 

[sberry]

You need 3 or 4. I like a common framing square, a combo and a speed square type along with a big T if you work with sheets. Nothing fancy.

 

[5ktq]

Don't forget a machinist's square

 

[larry_g]

Could you please go through both? I wanted to buy one set of a brand and call it a day, but if it cost a fortune to get a carpentry set. I would step down to layout grade and maybe buy better ones when the need arises.

Layout grade is 10x or better the accuracy of carpenter grade. Layout is usually used by a machinist vs a wood worker. I would suggest that you study a bit in the Starrett or Mititoyu catalog to understand what is available and then make your decisions on what fits YOUR needs. For the members to give a a good answer YOU have to state what exactly it is to be used for and the accuracy you need to achieve.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[yuanzichen]

Thanks for explaining the difference in grade... I am new to all these knowledge... As a first-time home owner, I want to slowly learn how to work on stuffs. It takes a lot of time to learn how to do it, which is why I want to have tools ready before a task runs into me. In other words, I do not know exactly what the tools will be used for, but I know I will need it. The brands you mentioned are over my budget, I am afraid. I like and appreciate quality tools and will buy good ones when I can. Right now I am shopping for general purposes, in a better than "cheap" quality.

Layout grade is 10x or better the accuracy of carpenter grade. Layout is usually used by a machinist vs a wood worker. I would suggest that you study a bit in the Starrett or Mititoyu catalog to understand what is available and then make your decisions on what fits YOUR needs. For the members to give a a good answer YOU have to state what exactly it is to be used for and the accuracy you need to achieve.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[sberry]

This guy sounds like a starter upper. If one needs something better can get it.

 

[yuanzichen]

Thanks for your recommendation. Any brand recommended?

You need 3 or 4. I like a common framing square, a combo and a speed square type along with a big T if you work with sheets. Nothing fancy.

 

[alinc100]

I've got a used Union 12" combination square that would fit your budget.
A framing square would be cheap at HD,Empire,Stanley,etc. as would a speed square,Swanson is the originator of the speed square.. If there is a thriving flea market in your area and you have time to hunt ,bargains abound at the markets,garage sales and estate sales.

Here is a link to 3 squares I have listed on CL ,the middle one is pending.
https://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/tls/d/union-tool-co-12-combination/6593286328.html

 

[cvairwerks]

Yuan: the other guys have popped in with lots of good info for you. A new homeowner doesn't need a lot of tools to get by. Add them in as you bring up your skill level and the complexity of the work you choose to take on.
For a basic set of tools, I would suggest a decent tape measure or folding rule, a carpenter's square, a protractor and a speed square to start out. None of these need to be high dollar items....they can be flea market finds, garage sale items or from any of the big box stores. You are talking about maybe 30-50 bucks for all new ones.

As you gain experience and hone your skills, should you decide to do woodworking, or metal working projects, the need for adding some layout tools with much greater precision capability will be necessary. Until that time, the basics should have you covered and above all, don't be afraid to ask questions.

 

[sberry]

I have several of each, never looked to see what brand they are. I had a bit more of a golden arm back in the day when I was younger,,, today don't care about most of it as long as it works. It doesn't bother me to use a HF screwdriver or wrench.

 

[Alexander]

By the sounds of it, you bought a house and are interested in general DIY, home renovation-y stuff.

In general, the nicer store finds are more than sufficient for that, and are used by most contractors. The needs for a machinist are way different. The box stores tend to stock a few levels of stuff, but for squares you can actually find affordable items that are nice, made in usa, and should be exactly what you're asking for.

As for individual items, off the top of my head, and depending on project: combo square, speed square, 4' T-square, rulers, maybe calipers (probably not for home reno), plenty of tape measures, various levels, and perhaps some of the other related items that will be placed next to those things on the shelves. Personally, I couldn't live without a disto and other laser levels/lines, but that's far more than the typical homeowner/budding DIY needs.

You'll notice even the nicer items at home stores aren't particular expensive, even if they're made in the us. They just don't need to be. Speed squares are just a piece of aluminum with some markings, for example. They're still plenty precise for anything you might use them for. The starrett and mitutoyo tools seems ludicrous because they're made for a different market that demands that level of precision and accuracy.

Last point: no need to get everything at once. Item number one is a tape measure (or 12).

 

[Wamsutta]

People always forget about PEC Tools. They make nice stuff without paying the Starrett price. By the way, that picture gets huge if you click on it.

 

[Jeremy77]

Stanley makes great carpenter squares, you can pick one up at Walmart cheap. Should still be made in U.S.A as well. Swanson and Empire both make a quality speed square. Available at Home Depot or Lowe’s. Both U.S.A. made. You stated that you need it for around the house and DIY work so I’m not sure why all the Starrett/Mitutoyo suggestions. Just my opinion though. Should be under $25 for the two types that I mentioned and I’d imagine it’d cover 99.9% of the things you’d need them for around the house.

 

[atthebeach]

I have a carpenter's square, machinist's square, speed square, precision Woodpecker square for cabinetry work, and a Starrett combination square. Each has its own best use depending your application.

However, if you are just getting started, you might find spending a couple of dollars on a clear plastic drafting triangle a wise investment. They are surprising accurate and often the handiest choice. I have a couple of them that have gotten a lot of use over the last half century.

 

[DWise]

Try to buy a carpenter square that has the measurements stamped into it rather than the cheap ones that are just printed on. I also like the aluminum Swanson speed square.

 

[dr_clyde]

I would recommend Empire or Johnson for around the house carpentry and construction squares. I would get a framing square, a speed square, a sliding t-bevel and an adjustable drywall square. You should be able to pick these up at Home Depot or Menards for less than $100. These are "disposable". Easily replaceable and inexpensive.

For a combination square set, I recommend getting high quality. PEC or Starrett. This is a lifetime tool.

 

[Davefr]

For a get started DIY homeowner these are the starting points IMHO. You don't need $tarrett at this point. Once you have some specific tasks you can supplement this list. I bet all this can be purchased for <$100. Professional builders use a level, speed square and tape measure as their top 3 measuring tools. (Empire, Stanley, Craftsman, Swanson will be just fine).

 

[matt_i]

I agree with DaveFr, I would suggest buying 3 of the Stanley 25' tapes, somehow they grow disguises and are hard to find

 

[yuanzichen]

Thank y'all so much, guys! I think I have an idea what to start with!

 

[KDoug]

I didn't see this mentioned here so I will say it. They have the 12" PEC combination squares on the Harry Epstein website for around $25. Great deal. Now I will point out that they have some sort of grind marks as pointed out by the description, I geuss they are seconds.

 

[sberry]

I can use a 5$ square.

 

[dr_clyde]

I didn't see this mentioned here so I will say it. They have the 12" PEC combination squares on the Harry Epstein website for around $25. Great deal. Now I will point out that they have some sort of grind marks as pointed out by the description, I geuss they are seconds.

I have a "second" PEC square set I got from HJE. There are very small defects, like a pit or void in the casting, or a blemish on the paint, things like that. Very, very usable still.

 

[fasteddie]

As others have said, I wouldn't spend a lot on squares or rulers. The important thing is to make sure the one you take home is "square". Try several against each other off the rack and take one that agrees with most of the others, especially the big T squares. You didn't mention levels in your post but you probably want a small pocket level, a 2' and 4'. With levels, be especially careful selecting them at the store. Check them in all different directions, flat, vertical, then flip it end for end to make sure it agrees with itself. As for rulers, in addition to tapes, an old school folding rule is good to have, sometimes the right tool.

 

[6PTsocket]

I have PEC 4" square. They are the source for a lot of better house brand stuff, Like Lee Valley, the name on mine. It is decent but not Starrett. It does not cost like Starrett, either.

People always forget about PEC Tools. They make nice stuff without paying the Starrett price. By the way, that picture gets huge if you click on it.

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[6PTsocket]

When buying a cheap square, the easiest way to check it out is to just bring a stiff piece of cardboard or hard board, etc with at least one straight edge. Draw a line. Flip the square over and see if it is parallel with the line. If not, the square isn't square.

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