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Recommended driveway spec's

stout1

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Dec 3, 2010
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Chicago area
I need to have my old concrete driveway replaced. When it was installed with the house back in the 70's they didn't use any mesh and the different sections are shifting up, down & apart. The size is 39 x 17 wide. What do you guys recommend as far as psi, thickness etc. to make it last and not crack too soon?
 
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Cryptic1911

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May 24, 2008
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Willimantic, CT
I'm no concrete professional, but I would do at least 6", and more importantly, get the ground prepped and compacted properly. Also might be a good time to get some drainage installed to get the water away, instead of letting it seep underneath. That's probably why it is shifting in the first place
 

wssix99

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Mar 2, 2011
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Chicago, IL
I need to have my old concrete driveway replaced. When it was installed with the house back in the 70's they didn't use any mesh and the different sections are shifting up, down & apart.

Mesh won't stop this.

What do you guys recommend as far as psi, thickness etc. to make it last and not crack too soon?

One would need more information to make an informed recommendation. What area of the country/city are you in? How far are you from a concrete plant? Do you want to go with a cementitious concrete replacement? (BTW - Asphalt is technically concrete, more specifically bituminous concrete.) What kind of slope is your driveway on?

Can you post pictures of the problems you have today? It sounds like you have some heave going on.

The base under the driveway is probably your biggest issue. Extra thickness of the concrete will do noting for you unless you are using the driveway commercially or for industrial sized trucks.
 

Rural53

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Mar 11, 2010
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Tauranga, New Zealand
Have a source for this info?

I have never heard of some one refer to asphalt as concrete

Technically concrete is a mixture of aggregate of varying sizes held together with a binder. This binder can be lime, cement, bitumen or polymer/epoxy.

Lime based concrete was, generally, last used by the Romans before they discovered cement.

Portland cement concrete uses portland cement as the binder and is commonly known as concrete.

Asphaltic concrete uses bitumen as the binder and is commonly called AC, asphalt, hotmix, HMA etc. There is as many, if not more, variaties of asphalt as there are variations of concrete - AC, Open Graded Porous Asphalt (OGPA), Stone Mastic Asphalt (SMA), Bitumen Rich Asphalt (HiBit), etc.

Polymer/epoxy concretes are generally used in specialist situations such as under machinery base plates and for concrete repairs.

Stout, if the slabs are moving it sounds like you have issues with the base under the concrete. Does the ground freeze in your area?
 
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darkk

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Dec 24, 2009
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Willimantic, Ct.
I have a friend that has two concrete driveways. One is on an awful slope. The sloped driveway is roughly 25 wide and around 75 long. Both driveways were poured in sections about 10x12 +/- The sloped drivre is about 15 years old with absolutely no problems. We live in Eastern Ct so the weather is pretty wicked in the winter.
 

wssix99

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Mar 2, 2011
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Chicago, IL
Have a source for this info?

I have never heard of some one refer to asphalt as concrete

A good dictionary will call this stuff out: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/concrete

but Rural53's explanation is much better.


In essence, all typical pavements we see are concretes. The binder (cement, binder, volcanic ash, Elmer's glue, etc.) selection depends on a number of factors.

Asphalt remains in a liquid state after pavement is laid, so using asphaltic concrete on steep slopes or in hot climates can be challenging. Likewise, a brittle pavement like cementitious concrete can have problems in cold climates or where the ground heaves a lot.
 

ms fowler

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Jun 27, 2012
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Littlestown, PA _ 6 miles south of Gettysburg
Another difference is that concrete is classified as a rigid pavement, while HMA ( Hot Mix Asphalt) is a flexible pavement.
Prep is at least as important in paving as it is in paint work. And you know how important it is for painting!!
I've been a Construction Materials Technician for over 30 (!) years. In my experience a pavement failure is almost always due to poor subgrade. Subgrades are the materials below (sub) the finished surface ( grade). Good subgrade materials fully support the load without deflecting--6" or more of properly graded and compacted crushed stone. The advantage of crushed stone over rounded gravels is the shape of the particles---crushed stone locks together while rounded gravels act like so many ball bearings rolling over each other.
Ideally you want a good gradation of particle sizes--not all one size. In a well-graded mix the smaller particles fill in the spaces around the larger particles. Compacting this well-graded material compresses it and removes the air voids. This is important because those air voids WILL get filled with water over time, and water is bad.
If you have slabs moving, I'd expect to find them poured directly on a fat Clay soil. Fat Clays have a great affinity for water, and change their volume based on how much water is available ( shrink-swell).
The difficulty with HMA is the ability ( or not) of the contractor to put enough energy into the mixture while it is still hot to properly compact it. Interstate highway road crews have the equipment and the knowledge. Some driveway paving crews also have the knowledge and the equipment; many do not. It all looks good for a few years and then deteriorates.
The problem with Portland concrete is that too many crews want to add to much water--it makes it easier on them, but lowers the quality of the product. They may even contract to place it at a certain "slump" ( measure of work-ability, and often an indicator of water-cement ratio), but fail to actually abide by that contract. This happens in commercial building regularly, and often in home owner situations where there is no inspection, and the home owner has no concrete knowledge or experience.

Concrete is a product that you cannot judge it quality by sight. It is composed of coarse aggregate, fine aggregate, cement, water and admixtures. Admixtures are a relatively new item--better living thru chemistry! There are admixtures that improve the work-ability of the concrete w/o weakening it as adding too much water will--there are high range water reducers, low range water reducers, and plasticizers. I remember the first time i saw a plasticizer used. The mixer arrived, and I checked the slump, and it was about 1" ( very stiff). I watched the driver add a few ounces of the chemical, and then spin the mixer drum for a number of revolutions, and then he dumped the load. It ran down the chute and across the ground like it would have if he had added 50 gallons of water, yet this was only a few ounces.

It may be that paying a civil Engineer to take a look at your site and problems will be the cheapest insurance on getting a good job. An hour or two of his/her time should cost less than a CY of concrete, and improve your chance of getting a long-lasting job. Failing that hire a good quality contractor, or DIY, placing 3- 3- 1/2 inch slump 3500 PSI concrete over a compacted crushed stone base. Also tell the concrete plant that it is an outside slab so they add "air" to it. An air-entraining mixture induces many tiny air bubbles into the mix making it more durable in freeze-thaw locations.
 

coolreed

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Apr 10, 2012
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595
Location
Oklahoma City, It's a Windy Heat.
I have one important recommendation.

Make your drive way a little wider than normal so when you get out of the car you are stepping on concrete no the lawn. In other words make it the width of the outside of your garage not only the drive in portion.

:3gears:
 
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