Recommended Propane Heater?

[ekraft84]

Hey All - I'm looking for some propane heating recommendations. I have a garage that's 700-800 sq. feet, with 10ft. tall ceilings, and with proper wall and ceiling insulation. I was looking at this Modine heater and wasn't sure if it was a good brand, or if there was something better:

http://www.shophmac.com/modine-hd60.html

I also have heard good things on Reznor heaters. Any feedback on those would be appreciated as well.

Thanks.

 

[jumpingryan]

I recommend the Garage Guy heaters by Sterling. They offer enclosed combustion option standard, which is good if you wood in a dusty area, or area with fumes.

R

 

[gatchel]

Reznor is the most common one I have seen around here. They seem to work reliably, from what I have seen and heard. I will be using a Reznor when I finally install a heater in the garage.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

The smaller and tighter the space the more you need a sealed combustion unit and the closer it is to the load, the warmer you will be and the less fuel you will burn.

 

[darkk]

I have a smaller (propane) fired Hot Dawg heater in my 22x24 storage garage. It has worked great for the last 13 years. Not a bad choice...

 

[Bill Z]

I agree with jumpingryan. My garage is about the same size as yours and I'm going with the enclosed combustion Sterling. Aside from the dust and dirt issue,this unit is very efficient since it uses only outside air for combustion. Why burn warm air you've already paid to heat? Also insulation is obviously important so I'm using R21 in the walls and R38 in the ceiling.

 

[ekraft84]

Thanks guys. Looking at putting the R38 in the ceiling as well. It's an extra $100 or so, but I figure it won't take long to save that much money over the course of a few Michigan winters.

 

[ekraft84]

Any recommendations on a ventless heater over propane? Cost vs. efficiency? Someone I talked to had mentioned getting a ventless and I hadn't thought about it really.

 

[jumpingryan]

Any recommendations on a ventless heater over propane? Cost vs. efficiency? Someone I talked to had mentioned getting a ventless and I hadn't thought about it really.

There are a few threads out there on ventless.... but I think that they are not worth the trouble......

The air is moist with those heaters, and people reported it taking days to dry things out like snowsuits and stuff like that..... The moist air also does things to metal tools including the buildup of condensate and eventually leading to rust.... even if you don't heat it full time, the condensation has to go somewhere. Turn off the heater, and the condensate turns to frost until spring. Ventless heaters are not worth the problems they created as far as I am concerned.

Venting is actually easier than you think, and fairly cheap to purchase. A B-vent setup done yourself could cost around $150.... Simpson brand venting is the type I chose.

That being said, when dealing with fumes that could kill you and gas that can blow your garage up..... I always recommend that you hire a licensed & insured professional to handle the job.

Just a tip for the installer, and if you choose a vertical vent to go through what is expected to be an insulated space.... when you purchase the firebreak metal plate sized to your vent (basically a metal plate with a round hole in it to go through drywall), you will likely see 4 metal tabs surrounding the round hole to be faced inside the attic.

Those tabs are spaced perfectly for a 1 inch clearance required around the b-vent pipe. Go to any hardware store, and purchase square ductwork, or fashion sheet metal to surround those tabs. Make the box deeper than you insulation and then some.

You will now have your 1 inch in clearance, and can install the fire-break in your ceiling. It is a lot easier to fashion this on the ground rather than messing around up in a hot/cold attic to construct a fire separation around the b-vent.

If you are concerned about the insulation guy being sloppy and putting insulation next to the b-vent, make the enclosures extra tall and/or create a cover for the top of the enclosure.

R

 

[nehog]

Recommendations for models and makers is great, but much more valuable is suggestions on sellers, specifically online sellers. Many of us are 'in the country' and will not be buying from whoever does the hookup (and probably will do the hanging of the heater ourselves.)

 

[ekraft84]

There are a few threads out there on ventless.... but I think that they are not worth the trouble......

The air is moist with those heaters, and people reported it taking days to dry things out like snowsuits and stuff like that..... The moist air also does things to metal tools including the buildup of condensate and eventually leading to rust.... even if you don't heat it full time, the condensation has to go somewhere. Turn off the heater, and the condensate turns to frost until spring. Ventless heaters are not worth the problems they created as far as I am concerned.

Venting is actually easier than you think, and fairly cheap to purchase. A B-vent setup done yourself could cost around $150.... Simpson brand venting is the type I chose.

That being said, when dealing with fumes that could kill you and gas that can blow your garage up..... I always recommend that you hire a licensed & insured professional to handle the job.

Just a tip for the installer, and if you choose a vertical vent to go through what is expected to be an insulated space.... when you purchase the firebreak metal plate sized to your vent (basically a metal plate with a round hole in it to go through drywall), you will likely see 4 metal tabs surrounding the round hole to be faced inside the attic.

Those tabs are spaced perfectly for a 1 inch clearance required around the b-vent pipe. Go to any hardware store, and purchase square ductwork, or fashion sheet metal to surround those tabs. Make the box deeper than you insulation and then some.

You will now have your 1 inch in clearance, and can install the fire-break in your ceiling. It is a lot easier to fashion this on the ground rather than messing around up in a hot/cold attic to construct a fire separation around the b-vent.

If you are concerned about the insulation guy being sloppy and putting insulation next to the b-vent, make the enclosures extra tall and/or create a cover for the top of the enclosure.

R

Great info, thanks Ryan.

 

[Chloe]

did anyone suggested you Mr. Heater F232000 MH9BX Buddy 4,000-9,000-BTU Indoor-Safe Portable Radiant Heater???

 

[cowboyjosh]

I always recommend a unit heater like a Reznor or Sterling. Im not a big fan of Hot Dawg or Mr. Heater units (too many problems when I was putting them in new homes). A properly sized, and installed unit heater beats the hell out of the portable units which are a PITA and a fire and carbon monoxide hazard.

 

[ekraft84]

I've been looking at the Reznors and they have two different models I'm considering - the UDAP and the UDAS. The UDAP is power vented, while the UDAS has a separated combustion chamber. What exactly does this mean?

I'm guessing that it better filters the air, but in terms of efficiency, I'm wondering if it's something that I should be considering.

Thanks.

 

[NoSloCoupes]

Just installed my Sterling GG 90 with seperated combustion. Got it from www.littlegreenhouse.com . Came fairly quick and only had a small problem, they sent me the wrong size deflector disc...but got the right one out to me quickly also. Great service and price!

 

[Dragster Racer]

I didn't catch if you were going to heat it all the time. If so, that heater seems overly large to me. I would go smaller for greater comfort and efficiency.
I would also go vented no matter what. No matter what.

 

[dave67fd]

Heaters with the seperated cumbustion are just as efficient as those without. As mentioned They are good if you use the heater in a very dusty or area with fumes.

The Reznor, Sterling GG, Modine Hot Dawg's and Mr. Heater Big Max series are all basically the same heater based on the same technology and all with similar features. They also all run at the same efficiency. The Reznors and Sterlings are typically a bit more money than the Modine's and Hot Dawg's.

 

[darkk]

We've had a Hot Dawd propane heater in our storage garage (600 sq ft) for about 12 years now. It works great.... Our main garage 30x30x13 has a Modine hydronic heater we just piped into our hot water furnace in the house. Thatappears to be functioning pretty good also...

 

[ekraft84]

Good info guys. I'm still torn on the separated combustion chamber, as we'll be working on bikes and though there won't be a ton of chemicals, we do use mineral spirits and other cleaning solvents (via a parts washer) from time to time.

I have a 3.5 car garage, with 10ft. ceilings, that will have a couple fans and be fully insulated. Is a 45,000 BTU vented heater big enough? Is a 60,000 heater overkill?

Thanks.

 

[bd8134]

I have a ~1,200 sqft garage with 12ft ceilings in MA. No windows 3 large well insulated garage doors, foam in the 2x4 walls, R38 in ceiling, 2 external fiberglass doors, 1 half glassed, epoxy floor. I reused the 45,000 btu Sterling heater from my old uninsulated 2-car garage.
I have the garage set on a 50F min. When it gets real cold outside it takes a long time to get to a highish temp, 68-70F, maybe +90 mins and it will keep cycling often when at that temp. I have no ceiling fan so that could make it more comfortable. I use a thermostat that averages the reading between 2 sensors on opposite walls.
Last couple of nights it has been ~34F, about 59F inside the garage, it takes about 1 hour and cycles about every 10 mins for <10 mins to maintain 68F.
My heater is too small I think for my garage, but I already had it, it just takes a while to get to temp, it has no problem when it gets there.
My garage though is comfortable throughout when heated, I dont have cold spots.
Also when it not too cold say 63F in the garage and I want it at 68F, it does a very nice job of keeping a constant even temp.
So Kraftomatic, it depends on where you live, what temp you will allow the garage to go to, what temp you would like it to heat to, etc.
You do not want to go too large (quick warm up, uneven temp, cycles often) but you do not want too small (good when not too cold, constant running when very cold, even temp, less cycles).
It looks like you might be in that 45,000 or 60,000 range.
For me, if my unit broke today, I would possibly get a 60,000 but the 45,000 does work well, I just wear thicker clothes for a while or switch the heater on beforehand.
Its just soooo much better than the terrible torpedo heaters I had used before.

 

[ekraft84]

Thanks for the info BD. I'm in Michigan so it gets pretty cold in the winter. While it sounds warm, I'd like to have the garage at 66-68 degrees during the winter months. I'd like to keep it above freezing when not out working in it for the most part.

I suppose I'd rather go a little bigger than be too small. The heater will be in the corner of the ".5" side of the 3.5 car garage, so I'm hoping two overhead fans will help move the air and keep the temperature consistent throughout the entire garage. I'm not sure if there are any special tricks to moving the air faster than that.

Thanks.

 

[rwreuter]

I have a smaller (propane) fired Hot Dawg heater in my 22x24 storage garage. It has worked great for the last 13 years. Not a bad choice...

just curious....what are the height of your ceilings and are the walls and ceilings insulated?

 

[Sidekick]

Another word on ventless heaters. When you burn fuel you have always 2 by products- heat and carbon monoxide. It does not matter that the heater says that it is ventless- you WILL Have monoxide as a by product. If you read the instructions on most ventless heaters it will say "use in a well ventilated area". That means- no closed doors. A local resort nearby installed60 ventless fireplaces in their new addition, after the first heating season- every one of these fireplaces was shut down- why? Sick people over the winter- monoxide poisoning.

Just sayin
Buzz

 

[trythis]

Consider an overhead tube heater. They make them for residential garages now. No noise, no wind. Sealed combustion is easy to do. Very simple, and everything gets warm to the touch.

 

[Kelly Jones]

My husband and I recently purchased a house and he is in the process of converting the garage into a man cave. He purchased a modine heater for the space. I'm not sure how big the garage is (it only holds one car), but my husband says the heater does a nice job of warming the space up.

 

[ekraft84]

I'm back at this now and ready to purchase. It's between the Reznor 45k UDAP and UDAS. The UDAS is almost double the price. Is the separate combustion chamber really worth it, in the long run?

Thanks.

 

[dave67fd]

It depends. Don't think you can't use chemicals when using a standard vented FA gas heater. Just be cautious. Don't allow excessive fumes when the heater is running, use in moderation, keep some amount of fresh air available while using and don't use or leave open containers or rags in close proximity of the heater.

I think for your space you would be happier with a bit larger model. The heaters rating (45k) is BTU input not output. I think you would be happier with a 75k or similar.
Reznor makes a good heater but there are several other quality kick-offs that work just a good for less money.
I have a 75K unit heating my 1200 sq,ft area.

Also important to locate your heater so it warms the coolest areas of your space (i.e garage doors/windows etc..) as well as locating for proper gas line and venting.

 

[Jackfre]

Your best option would be the Rinnai EX-38. Modulating gas valve and blower. 82% efficiency, built in programmable t-stat. QUIET! I know it is a garage, but not having to listen to a blower noise is a rally good thing. Pricey, but the best and you get what you pay for. Direct vent sealed combustion.

I have to acknowledge my bias as I have represented them for the last 22 years. Then again, I've heated my homes, basements and garages with them for all of those years too. Excellent product and head and shoulders above anything else suggested.

 

[dave67fd]

Excellent product and head and shoulders above anything else suggested.

Your Opinion? Any "real" data you can show to substantiate it other than your company dedication? Not questioning the quality of the heater of course. Only other drawback other than their exuberant price per BTU is they are "fixed" vent heaters and operate at the same efficiency as the other common "vented" heaters mentioned i.e. Modine/Heatstar/Reznor etc.. They have pros and cons as does any heater, suit some installations and not others and may not be his best option.

 

[ekraft84]

It depends. Don't think you can't use chemicals when using a standard vented FA gas heater. Just be cautious. Don't allow excessive fumes when the heater is running, use in moderation, keep some amount of fresh air available while using and don't use or leave open containers or rags in close proximity of the heater.

I think for your space you would be happier with a bit larger model. The heaters rating (45k) is BTU input not output. I think you would be happier with a 75k or similar.
Reznor makes a good heater but there are several other quality kick-offs that work just a good for less money.
I have a 75K unit heating my 1200 sq,ft area.

Also important to locate your heater so it warms the coolest areas of your space (i.e garage doors/windows etc..) as well as locating for proper gas line and venting.

Well I picked up the 45k already. I guess we'll see. Worst case I can sell it and upgrade if need be.

I'm hoping the insulated walls, ceiling, doors and a good fan will move air around enough to keep it nice and warm. I'm a good 400 square feet less than what you have, so I can't imagine needing more than a 60k - at most - hopefully.

 

[Jackfre]

Your Opinion? Any "real" data you can show to substantiate it other than your company dedication? Not questioning the quality of the heater of course. Only other drawback other than their exuberant price per BTU is they are "fixed" vent heaters and operate at the same efficiency as the other common "vented" heaters mentioned i.e. Modine/Heatstar/Reznor etc.. They have pros and cons as does any heater, suit some installations and not others and may not be his best option.

Fair question Check out this link to Canadian gov't testing

http://www.ccht-cctr.gc.ca

There is a lot of info there on all types of heating/cooling systems, but included in this stack is a test of a Rinnai heater vs a condensing furnace in a computer controlled home environment. The 82%Rinnai used a bit more gas but saved a great deal on the electrical side and ended up within a few bucks total season cost of the 90%+ furnace. The savings and comfort on these is the benefit of the modulating gas valve and modulating blower.