Red and Black

[Ironcrow]

I'm getting ready to line up 4 breakers at the top of the box, two on each side, the 240 volt loads with tied handles. Then several single pole 15 amp breakers filling out the box.

The main feed at the top of the box has two large aluminum cables, black sheathing, one with a red stripe and one no stripe (black stripe ha ha). The neutral has a white stripe. I've understood that red and black doesn't matter, 240 loads are red and black, whichever.

When I see a "pretty picture" of a wired panel the 240 breakers match across from one side to the other; red, black, red, black in my case and same on the other side. Wouldn't this be "changing' colors across the breaker? To make one buss bar red and the other black, wouldn't I land the wires red, black, red, black on one side and black, red, black, red on the other?

Doesn't matter right? Is one way more **** retentive than the other?

 

[Ironcrow]

Never mind. I was thinking of the buss bar tabs alternating wrongly. It is clear matching the sides IS keeping one buss bar the same color.

 

[Mustang51js]

Unless you have a clear panel cover I wouldn't worry to much about the colors matching in order,just make it neat

 

[Ironcrow]

Yeah, I know...it only has to look neat for a couple of hours while I put it together. After that, nobody will ever see it again...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I tend to want to keep red on one bus, and black on the other, when it comes to 240v, or MWBC. I went down the panel and using the diagram in the inside of the door which has the two bus's marked A and B. I marked the middle of the cover, between the breakers, red and black alternating. A is red (remember that Scarlet lettter? and B is..... well..... Black. The color codes carry thru, esp the MWBC I set up for the lighting. This is plug and cord Metal Halide and the switching is UP/OFF/DOWN with up being both circuits and Down just being the A or Red circuit. I labeled the receptacles at the light fixtures accordingly.

Charles

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Unless you have a clear panel cover I wouldn't worry to much about the colors matching in order,just make it neat

Does the code allow putting a clear plastic cover on a breaker panel?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Does the code allow putting a clear plastic cover on a breaker panel?

The cover is part of the UL (or other listing agency) listing of the product, and part of the fire containment of the product.

Charles

 

[alfredeneuman]

I'm getting ready to line up 4 breakers at the top of the box, two on each side, the 240 volt loads with tied handles.

You're required to have an internal trip mechanism on the 240V breakers thus 2 pole breakers.

Handle ties are used to switch multiple 120V circuits at once.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Indeed, it makes no sense to buy handle ties to connect two individual breakers, even for a MWBC where it is allowed, because the price of two individual breakers plus the handle ties is more than a double pole. Breakers are stupid cheap until you get above 60 amp, so why do it the hard way.

Charles

 

[wyliesdiesels]

People ALWAYS get confused by the difference between a handle tie and a common trip breaker...

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I always put the black first then the red,too many years of running 208 3ph wiring I guess (without the blue of course)

 

[Ironcrow]

People ALWAYS get confused by the difference between a handle tie and a common trip breaker...

Well, I'm not confused exactly. I thought I was describing a 240V common trip breaker that occupies two slots in my panel. I had no idea there was a separate thing as a handle tie to put on two single poles breakers. Since I have no idea why you would do such I thing, no danger of me buying a handle tie.

Thanks for the assist. My panel is now both pretty and safe.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well, I'm not confused exactly. I thought I was describing a 240V common trip breaker that occupies two slots in my panel. I had no idea there was a separate thing as a handle tie to put on two single poles breakers. Since I have no idea why you would do such I thing, no danger of me buying a handle tie.

Thanks for the assist. My panel is now both pretty and safe.

Handle ties are for breakers that feed MWBC/multi-wire branch circuits.

A 240v circuit NEEDS to be fed by a common trip breaker. A handle tie for this circuit is not code compliant.

Are the breakers for your 240v loads common trip or just 2 single breakers that are handle tied?

 

[Ironcrow]

All common trip.

 

[Ironcrow]

New question: I just found a string of 4 receptacles that switch colors at the first receptacle. Red, white and PE from the breaker to the first receptacle. The Romex leaving that receptacle is black, white, and PE daisy chained to the other three receptacles. I know this works, its been installed for decades. And there is little risk that somebody would pull a feed off the end of this string, hook it to a red phase and expect 240, getting instead 120 V. Beside making my teeth itch, is this a code problem? I can use either in the panel, right? If I felt like it I could run the entire panel, both sides in, say, black. But, can I switch horses in the middle of the stream?

 

[Ironcrow]

Ha! Over in the other room I've got blue wire. Left over from some 3 phase work?

 

[Mustang51js]

Blue isn't just for 3 phase,it can be used as a hot wire anytime. You can use any color wire in residential for a hot as long as it's not white,gray or green

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Handle ties are for breakers that feed MWBC/multi-wire branch circuits.

A 240v circuit NEEDS to be fed by a common trip breaker. A handle tie for this circuit is not code compliant.

OK, I have a question. I have a Reliance Controls 31410C manual transfer switch. It has (10) circuits- (6) 120V 15A & (4) 120V 20A circuits. All have individual "Gen/Off/Line" switches. Each switch has a push button reset breaker. The (4) 20A circuits came with (2) handle ties installed and the instructions tell you to use them for 240V 20A circuits. I am using one pair of 20A switches with a handle tie to feed my ductless mini split A/C unit. Is this a violation?



Tommy

 

[Mustang51js]

Not a violation,the fuses in that panel are just for when the generator is running. It's the same as a 2 pole in main panel just that panel gas each phase on the sides instead of alternating. So left side is one phase and right side is another phase

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Not a violation,the fuses in that panel are just for when the generator is running. It's the same as a 2 pole in main panel just that panel gas each phase on the sides instead of alternating. So left side is one phase and right side is another phase

I kind of thought so, but after reading about the handle ties not being the same as a common trip, I thought twice about it.

Thanks!

Tommy