Rediscovering Pine for furniture projects

[strutaeng]

Hey guys, I don't post a lot of new threads, but here's one: I'm getting the urge to get back into woodworking and building furniture lately. I don't know if you realized that The New Yankee Workshop has started uploading their videos on YouTube now...

I just ordered the plans for the Pantry Table, and I'd like to build a few of these my wife wants. It's Season 5, Episode 6. I've built furniture before, but it's been a while. Mostly home projects and mechanic work the last 4 years. I've got a few nice hand planes and handsaws in a box in my attic. I learned how to cut mortise and tenon, and dovetails by hand, even dimensioned rough cut boards with hand planes, along with most other power tools woodworkers typically use.

Even though I've used hardwoods like cherry and maple in the past, this project I'm building out of pine. Turns out I haven't realized that pine is a perfectly good wood for a lot of furniture and has been used for furniture since colonial times.

So the 3 types of pines sold at the local box stores locally are:

1. White pine, usually called "whitewood." Usually has plenty of knots and I've used it for miscellaneous stuff. I think it comes from Idaho based on the bar codes (edit: Finland)? Lowest price, relative to the others. I think it says #2 grade. It looks like these are actually mixed species lumped in this category.

2. Select pine. Highest price and is knot free and appears dimensionally the best. It seems a little soft. I've used it for casings and like it. I really don't know what type of pine this is. I believe I've seen some New Zealand and Chile country of origin over the last years, from memory. But IIRC it used to be called Radiata Pine in the early 2000s.

3. Yellow pine. I'm assuming southern yellow pine from the Southern part of the US? Some knots and twisting, cupping, etc. but not too bad. Can make nice boards for larger glue-ups. Price is between the other 2. Material is pretty hard and dense compared to the other two.

Looks like my local hardwood supplier also has Douglas Fir, Eastern White Pine, Ponderosa Pine, Radiata Pine, Sugar Pine, and Yellow Pine.

I'm looking up properties of each in the Wood Handbook published by the USDA, which is insanely valuable source for information of wood properties and is available for free download. Lot's to read and learn.

Will post some additional information. What are some good woodworking forums to join?

 

[jjrbus]

Interesting, keep posting! I want to do a project and am use to working with oak. My go to for buying it has none in stock and does not know when they will have it. There are others that sell oak in the area but the prices!! I could use pine.

I did find some 5X11 oak pallets I want to go look at for $60 which may work.

 

[MushCreek]

It can be hard to find decent wood. I generally avoid the big box stores due to ridiculous prices on better grades of wood. Here in rural SC, there are a number of small backyard mills cutting local woods such as yellow pine, white and red oak, cherry, and once in a while, walnut. Cypress is widely available a bit further south and east, in the lower areas. I'm currently building a boat, and used a lot of cherry ($4 a board foot) for framing and other solid wood. I also got a good deal on some cypress. When you look at antique furniture from different parts of the country, the builders used what was available locally.

All woods are beautiful in their own way, and used appropriately.

 

[strutaeng]

Yeah, I'm going to call the hardwood suppliers. I have 2 close by. I stopped by Lowe's yesterday and the clear pine is equivalent to $6/ bd. ft.!!! Yikes! That store doesn't even have yellow pine boards, just ship lap and planks.

I need to figure out how many board feet I need for the 2 tables, and order extra.

 

[strutaeng]

Some helpful links I found:

Choosing Pine: Pine Grades

Once you know the players, you’re sure to make the best choice for your project.

www.woodsmith.com

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fpl.fs.usda.gov/documnts/fplgtr/fpl_gtr190.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi-hKWb08z-AhWQmmoFHYBoAOsQFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0zeluY5GPrdrjas4ws3RnV

 

[steel 35]

Blue pine

 

[MushCreek]

I don't like yellow pine for finish work. It's strong, but rather coarse looking. Unless you can get ahold of some old heart pine. The floors in our house were milled out of 120 year old beams from a textile mill. They're gorgeous!

 

[strutaeng]

Well, I called the local hardwood supplier and they had some different types of pine. Nice clear ponderosa pine was like $4/bd ft, the problem is that it was rough sawn. Guy almost talked me into going with cherry at around $4.70/bd ft. Not bad! Mahogany was around $6/bd ft. But then they only open M-F and close at 4:30. Will certainly have to plan it out next time for other projects.

So back to the diy big box store. I bought some SYP #2 boards. I bought extra to cut around the knots. For the legs and front rails I bought 2x8s! About $130, enough for 2 of these.


I glued up the boards and have cut most joinery. Mortise (plunge router with edge guide) and tenons (multiple passes on the table saw, and a bit of handsaw and rounding over with wood rasp) for the deep stretchers and Dominos for the front rails.

 

[strutaeng]

That saying about "you can't have enough clamps" is true.

Still have to do the top breadboards and build the drawers.

This was my inspiration: https://www.newyankee.com/episode/pantry-table/

 

[jives]

I get some project wood from free/cheap CL or FBM furniture, such as dressers, shelves, desks, tables, and wood bed and futon frames. Pick em up, cut 'em up. Paid $30 for a 3' x 5' butcher block table top at the local reuse. Cut down, reformed the rails to fit over an old dresser, and turned the dresser with the new top into a rolling kitchen workstation. Just picked up a solid wood student desk (pine or poplar, not sure), with a 30 x 42 x 4/4 solid wood top, 3 dovetailed drawers, all for $3. I hope to repurpose into another kitchen island for sale or a workbench. All good.

 

[ezridr60]

I’ve built quite a few projects using nothing but #2 pine. I’m picky about grain, knots are ok. Since all the stuff is in a log home I wanted a “rustic” look. The projects are over 10 years old now, zero problems. The tops are actually 2x6 pine planed to 1”, edge glued with biscuits. FWIW, a few shots!

 

[theoldwizard1]

What you find in most Big Box Stores is call SPF, spruce/pine/fir.

The interesting thing I found is Menards stocks Grade 2/not-planed 1by SPF. The stuff it saw was straight and only had a few small knots. Stocked in the main store so it was dry. And it turned out, one side WAS PLANED !

 

[strutaeng]

Well, here's the other problem on finishing pine: blotching if you try to "stain" it. I would personally leave it unstained and just protect it with oil/alkyd polyurethane or a waterborne clear and it let it mellow out on it's own. However, my wife wants them a brown stain so it doesn't look mis-matched from the rest of the furniture color in the house. Fair game I thought.

I bought some gel stain to try out on a scrap board. Admittedly, I had never used gel stain but it's supposed to help out blotching because it doesn't get absorbed too much and sits more on the surface. Just did a quick 120# hand sanding on the scrap. It still blotched...

Dye was the other option, which I've used before using denatured alcohol as the solvent on a spray gun. May even require a pre-stain sealer/washcoat. I've got plenty of scraps to experiment.

 

[strutaeng]

I’ve built quite a few projects using nothing but #2 pine. I’m picky about grain, knots are ok. Since all the stuff is in a log home I wanted a “rustic” look. The projects are over 10 years old now, zero problems. The tops are actually 2x6 pine planed to 1”, edge glued with biscuits. FWIW, a few shots!

That looks great! What did you finish it with? Did you do cockbeads on the drawers on the dresser?

 

[dutchgray]

Have used Piranha pine in the past for built in bookcases on jobs.

 

[ZRX61]

Well, here's the other problem on finishing pine: blotching if you try to "stain" it. I would personally leave it unstained and just protect it with oil/alkyd polyurethane or a waterborne clear and it let it mellow out on it's own. However, my wife wants them a brown stain so it doesn't look mis-matched from the rest of the furniture color in the house. Fair game I thought.

I bought some gel stain to try out on a scrap board. Admittedly, I had never used gel stain but it's supposed to help out blotching because it doesn't get absorbed too much and sits more on the surface. Just did a quick 120# hand sanding on the scrap. It still blotched...

Dye was the other option, which I've used before using denatured alcohol as the solvent on a spray gun. May even require a pre-stain sealer/washcoat. I've got plenty of scraps to experiment.

That test piece needed much more sanding prep.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Not a woodworker or finisher. Sanding sealer is supposed to "even out" pine blotchiness.

The other problem with pine is that it grows fast so you have very wide and uneven grain.

 

[woodfor1]

If you are using Minwax then use there per-stain wood conditioner it helps to prevent blotching. also when you sand the wood go to at lest 180 grit and not to much finer you will close the grain on the wood.when you use the per-stain conditioner do a sample peice the color will be lighter then with out it.but it will help with a more even color.Thats what we would do in my shop.

 

[strutaeng]

That test piece needed much more sanding prep.

Yes, definitely needed to sand the board at lot more. In that video he still got blotching in spite of his power sanding. You can see it on the Polycyclic and the oil varnish samples he did.

I bought some dye today. You can actually add dye to the topcoat (lacquer, shellac and water based clears; it doesn't work on oil varnishes) to add color without blotching. Used in that way is technically called "toner."

I've installed breadboards to the top and sanded it down. Working on the drawers now.

 

[Jim C.]

I recently made this small keepsake box from a section of pine board that came from an old collapsed barn. The lid is oak, and also from a section of a beam from the same barn.

Jim C..

 

[strutaeng]

I dragged my fine woodworking joinery tools from my attic. I almost forgot I had these! Some Lie Nielsen and some vintage stuff I bought that I sharpened/honed the blade. Dovetail saw is by Wenzloff & Sons, which apparently aren't made anymore. An Auriou rasp (i recall those things are spendy! French ) And even some cute little squares I made myself. I must have had too much time.

Tried my luck on an actual drawer. I clearly didn't figure out how to hide the bottom drawer groove and the dovetail spacing doesn't look all that great, but it fit and I didn't have drag out the 10lb sledge hammer!

I need to build a tool case to store and put these tools to use now. I've got other similar tools stored somewhere else. Some panel saws too.

 

[strutaeng]

Second drawer. A little better, but still need more practice. I decided to cut the bottoms, glue them up and send them. So 2 drawers to go.

 

[strutaeng]

I little planing to fit and some knobs... Hopefully can apply the finish this weekend.

 

[strutaeng]

I kinda had a learning experience with the dye on the actual tables.... Oh well. The color is a bit more brown, but it looks more reddish on the photos.

But I'm calling it done. Wife is happy.

Edit: spent like $175 in lumber. $20 for the dye. $12 for knobs. The waterborne clear I already had. $25 for the gel stain I didn't use.

 

[moab11]

that turned out great!

 

[trainer]

Some cupboards I made a few years ago. It's white pine "planer outs" from a local mill. There were some splits and loose knots to work around, but I think I paid 50c /bd -ft.