Refrigerators in the cold

[andrew240z]

I have a full size refrigerator in my garage which is unheated most of the time. I went out there today and noticed some of the food in the freezer was soft. The food was thawing out but the ice in the freezer was not thawing?? the fridge is on and working. Would these cold temperatures have something to do with this(its been 25 or under for the last 2-3 weeks in nj)? Any thoughts?

 

[Abodyracer]

I have a full size refrigerator in my garage which is unheated most of the time. I went out there today and noticed some of the food in the freezer was soft. The food was thawing out but the ice in the freezer was not thawing?? the fridge is on and working. Would these cold temperatures have something to do with this(its been 25 or under for the last 2-3 weeks in nj)? Any thoughts?

I noticed this same problem at my parents house. I think it may be too cold for the refrigerator to work properly. This may not apply but ice in a small lunch sized cooler will melt in the cooler even if the cooler is in sub freezing temps.

 

[toxicz28]

I mentioned this months ago when someone posted up about a fridge in an unheated garage. People cried BS.

 

[wilbilt]

I'm certainly no expert, but I think it has to do with the temperature differential the system is designed for, and the ambient temps it is expected to encounter.

For example, let's say an indoor refrigerator is designed to work in an ambient temp of 60F-80F, and provide a temperature differential of 40 degrees F between the outside of the box and the inside. We would expect it to be able to provide an inside temperature between 20F and 40F depending on the temperature outside the box.

Now, if you put that unit in a 20F environment and expect it to maintain a 40F temp, it would have to be working as a heater, which it is not designed to do.

I think it would need a different condenser design and possibly a different refrigerant to allow operation in the lower temperature ranges. I have heard that heat-pump type heaters don't work when the temperature gets below a certain point (my frigid office last month would be an example), and I suspect this would be a similar issue, only in reverse.

Of course, there is no doubt I don't know what I am talking about, and await the real answer from someone knowledegable in this area.

 

[volvo]

Like a/c, frig basic operation boils off the heat a leaves you with cold, if its colder temp outside it is unable to do so and provide a temp drop. (like most heat pumps have to have a back up heat source to work below certain temps). Also a frig will run its heater to defrost the coils for an hour once every 8 hrs or something like that, this also makes for softer ice cream...H for an hour

 

[kbs2244]

The easy thing to do with hot stuff going into an outside temp fridge is to let it cool down before you put it in the box.
Set it on the door step untill morning.
They just do not work well when the temp outside them is lower than the temp they are set at.
It has been in the single digits for over a week by me. Yet my beer and soda pop that has been in there for 2 weeks isn't frozen when I take it out of the fridge located in the unheated garage.

 

[fefarms]

The refrigeration process would still work even if the garage temp were below freezing. The problem with the garage fridge is much simpler than that.

The thermostat for a refrigerator/freezer is in the refrigerator part. Normally the refrigerator is kept at around 40 degrees. The compressor turns on as required to maintain this tempearture. The evaporator coils are concentrated in the freezer side, so that the freezer stays at around 0 degrees while the fridge side is held at 40.

If the ambient temp is around 25 degrees, the refrigerator compartment will get below the setpoint of 40 degrees, and gradually continue down towards 25 degrees. The compressor will not have to run at all to maintain this. In fact, the compressor is designed not to run, once the refrigerator compartment gets below the setpoint, for fear of freezing the contents of the fridge.

The lack of circulating refrigerant due to the non-running compressor means that the freezer compartment will gradually warm up to 25 degrees.

If the unit were just a freezer, it would work fine in the unheated garage. If it were just a refrigerator, it would not run in these conditions, and the contents would eventually freeze, but it is otherwise OK.

The problem for andrew240z is that he has a combination refrigerator/freezer, and the freezer part will not stay cold enough if the ambient temp drops below 40 degrees.

 

[wilbilt]

Now that makes perfect sense.

 

[Piper]

I talked to an appliance repair guy I know about this very fact. A refrigerator keeps the heat out, not the cold in. When it's colder out than the thermostat is set at the frig doesn't come on. In soft drink machines you see at gas stations etc there are actually heaters which keep the machine at a certain temp. So, the appliance repair guy's best advise is to leave the freezer outside but keep the frig in. As to the defrost cycle, yes, the freezer will defrost at a certain time by a timer in the unit. If it defrosts and the water runs down the small tube into the evaporation tray which is in the bottom of the frig the water likely will freeze if the garage is too cold. Then you get a back up of ice just like a roof ice jam on your house.

Piper

 

[andrew240z]

Makes sense to me too. I guess I should just not keep food in the freezer during the winter. Oh well, I did not lose much. Thanks for the replies!

 

[kbs2244]

Leave the door open. Then you have a whole box freezer.

 

[Jey]

This is only true with Newer Fridge/Freezer Units.

My parents have an extra fridge in the garage, same thing happened to them. It didn't happen previously, because they had a super old fridge in there. That fridge had two seperate stats one for the fridge and one for the freezer.

The new fridges just have it in the fridge area from my understanding... and thats why the freezer stops working.

 

[wheelz]

read about the gladitor garage works freezorator (ya my spelling *****) they heat in the cold to keep your stuff from freezing.

http://www.gladiatorgw.com/list.asp?catID=5

 

[Savisaarke]

Insulation doesn't differentiate between hot and cold. Insulation has
an R value which is a measure of Thermal Resistance irrespective of hot
or cold.

I have the Whirlpool Gladiator Freezer / Fridge. It has a heater to
keep from freezing.

http://www.gladiatorgw.com/detail.asp?BaseModelID=GARF19XXPK

A Traditional Combination of Refrigerator & Freezer Space
The Chillerator® Garage Refrigerator provides a traditional combination of food storage for your needs with the large 14 cu. ft. refrigerator and convenient 5 cu. ft. freezer.

Stays Chilled Inside, When it is Freezing Outside
Built-In heater keeps refrigerated items chilled, not frozen, even in very cold environments.

Stays Cold Inside, When it is Hot Outside
Powerful cooling system operates in high heat environments.

Stays Dry, When it is Humid Outside
Unlike typical refrigerators designed for inside the home, the Chillerator® Garage Refrigerator has a double pass heat loop that helps keep the outside of the refrigerator from sweating in high humidity environments.

 

[froggert]

in my garage, i've got a wine fridge and a regular fridge for beer. the one for wine heats as well as cools. the one for beer is just really really cold right now.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

in my garage, i've got a wine fridge and a regular fridge for beer. the one for wine heats as well as cools. the one for beer is just really really cold right now.

I've got an old gas powered servel in my barn. Darn thing is 60 years old and works like new. Of course, since it has no moving parts, other than the door hinges, that's not completly a surprise.

On these new fangled fridges you guys have with compressors, I was wondering if it is tough on the compressor to be in the cold. I know when we had trouble at work with the computer room needing a/c year round, the concern was we couldn't put the compressor outside, as they are not designed to run below a certain temperature. We ended up installing a split unit with the compressor in the warehouse, which is normally heated to 50 degrees or so.

Is that an issue?

Phil

 

[maa139]

I had the same problem with my garage fridge. I just moved it to the basement. Very cool (pun intended) having the floorspace back. Now the powerwasher and snowblower have a home.

Matt

 

[Deltaphi216]

I am bringing back a SUPER old thread for some advice. I have an old whirlpool sidebyside fridge in the garage that is doing exactly this. It only has issues in the winter when the temps are below 40 for extended periods of time. Has anyone rigged up a heater for the coils underneath or anything like that?

 

[rlitman]

It's not an issue with the coils. Re-read posts 7 and 13 above.
A regular refrigerator has a thermostat in the fridge section, that keeps the stuff in the fridge from freezing. If it's below 40F, the compressor just won't turn on, and your freezer will start to melt.

You can set your thermostat in the fridge lower (and stuff in there will freeze), or you can get rid of it entirely, and just have a freezer in your unheated garage.
Or, you can get a refrigerator (like a Subzero), that has a separate compressor for the fridge and freezer section.
Still, that will not prevent the contents of your fridge from freezing when it gets below 25F or so.
The Gladiator fridge with a built-in heater sounds like the best option, BUT you cannot retrofit a regular fridge with a heater for this purpose.

 

[38Chevy454]

If you drink enough of the cold beer in the frig, and replace it with warm beer, it will force the frig to work! Win-Win

It may sound and seem a bit counter-intuitive, but if you rigged a small light (ex: trouble light or similar) inside the frig that was on a timer for maybe 2 x 1 hr periods a day, it would make enough heat to have the frig cycle at least a couple times/day. Which would keep the freezer compartment cold. Yes the frig is using electricity to cool down the heat made by the electricity from the light, but it would force the frig to cycle in the very cold winter temps, which is what you need to happen. The heat form the light forces the frig to work.

 

[mdlbldrmatt135]

..........

 

[Jagmandave]

My early 80's era fridge/freezer combo worked fine in my garage, no matter how cold it got. The new one I bought last year to replace it when it finally failed won't work properly much below ambient of 50*, so the first winter I hung a 100 watt bulb behind it (the coil's on the back) and that seemed to provide enough heat to let it work, even tho it didn't affect the ambient temp in the garage. This summer I moved it to the basement. It means we have more stairs to climb when we load it from the store or need things from it, but in the more steady temp and humidity of the basement it 's working prefectly, and I'm sure it uses less electricity, especially in the hot humid summers.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Instead of the lightbulb "trick"- to make the t/stat think it's this instead of that; wouldn't it be more cost effective to by-pass the t/stat with a timer? The timer would just make the unit cycle at certain intervals regardless of interior temp or ambient temp.

 

[pattenp]

Refrigerators in the cold. I thought it was a spoof on the movie Gorillas in the mist. I know... not funny.

 

[slopecarver]

without "smart" refer/freezer combos you will have an issue, Unless you had a separate freezer and fridge units with separate compressors/thermostats, freezer would always be ok, fridge would have a 60w bulb in it set on a thermostat so that when it got below 32 in the fridge the bulb would turn on.

The reason the non-ice stuff is thawing is that the stuff acts like salt water. Water with any contaminants in it will freeze/melt at a lower temp.

 

[e30bradley]

where the hell is Cinnaminson? Lol. I lived in NJ my whole life (15yrs) and know my way around very well but I've never heard of that town..

 

[Hudd02]

Nothing technical here. I had the same problem with my Crosley double. I turned up the temp (lowered the number) on my fridge side a little and it solved the problem.

 

[Dominico]

This problem only occurs with the newer design refrigerators. You can order an electrical part for around $12 that will solve the problem. I do not remember the exact name of the part (some sort of thermostat/heater). I called an appliance guy and he told me what to do. I then ordered the part from the mfg. He said it is real simple to install however I had him install it anyhow. Total cost including installation was about $65. Fridge and freezer are working great!

 

[M Fan]

The Gladiator fridge with a built-in heater sounds like the best option, BUT you cannot retrofit a regular fridge with a heater for this purpose.

Not entirely true. Some companies, such as Frigidaire, do sell the heater kits (about $25) to retrofit units for garages. The problem with these, and the Gladiator, is that with that heater added, they are less efficient.

And besides Subzero, there are some cheaper units that offer seperate compressors and thermostats. I used an 18 cuft. Samsung for about a year that had the "Twin Cooling" feature and it worked quite well.

 

[bobcatdan]

I keep a 15 watt bulb in a drop light in the beer frige. I turn the fringe off, and my beer stays about 45. A little warm, but better then frozen.

 

[LennyTheLizard]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but anytime you are talking aobut maintaining temperature, you should think of: You can not really make cold! You only move heat. Cold just means 1 item is less hot than another.

It seems to me like the most efficient thing to do is open the door and let the heat from within your freezer out into the "less hot" garage. The insulation just works to resist heat movement, so it is trapping the heat inside the freezer.

 

[Milton Shaw]

If you looked at the mini manuals that are in a lot of refigerators, you would see that at a room temp of 70degrees the unit is designed to run 50% of the time, at 90 Room temp run about 70% of the time. This heat loss is what makes the refig keep the freezer cold. The run time in a cold garage is going to be about zero and so the freezer gets to the temp of the garage. There really is not a good fix for this except to move it inside. A upright or chest freezer is designed to be in a unconditioned space so get yourself a cheep 4 of 5 cubit foot chest freezer and you will be happy with its operation and will save a lot of the electrical energy a refig uses to keep the temps right.

 

[bassbone52]

My Dad solved the problem by running a 60w light bulb inside the fridge (Via an extension cord)

^^what he said^^