remodeling old metal barn questions

[428PI]

I'm thinking of remodeling my pole barn that's 50 years old that's built on an old barn foundation and part poles. I'm getting new cement floor and finishing out inside wall and adding garage door. On the inside wall (14x45) it will need to either be osb'd or metal interior paneling. What's the thoughts on spray foaming that interior wall and leaving the foam exposed to my lean two? My goal is to rat proof my interior space. Will the rats attack the foam? It's easiest to put the paneling up against the studs from inside the new space than the other way around. Will 1 inch closed cell foam be sufficient for occasional shop usage?

 

[finn]

I would seriously consider demo, removal, site prep, and a new, tight building.

Seems like every project where I had to make major changes to an old, non historic structure, the time, money, and effort was almost as much as clearing the site and starting fresh..

Just a thought, though.

Foam seems to degrade, at least visually, if left exposed. I don’t think it has much in the way of uv inhibitors.

 

[428PI]

Here's some pictures of the interior.

 

[428PI]

I would not demo it. It's purpose today is what it was built for 50 years ago and still serves that purpose and I just want to change it a little (improve it). I'll see what the bid is in a few weeks for concrete and finishing some interior space. I saw an add for a 30x40 with 10 ft ceilings, concrete, 2 garage doors for 25k. I'm guessing this will bid for around 15k and I'll have to put garage door. This has 14 ft walls which would be ideal for car lift.

 

[kbs2244]

That is not a barn
It is a machinery shed.
Why would want to insulate it if you are not going to change it's use.
Foam will stop drafts, you need more than foam for that.
Rats will laugh at foam and be through it in seconds.

A cement floor and a tighter door to keep out blowing snow is all that makes sense.

 

[kbs2244]

That is not a barn
It is a machinery shed.
Why would want to insulate it if you are not going to change it's use.
Foam will stop drafts, you need more than foam for that.
Rats will laugh at foam and be through it in seconds.

A cement floor and a tighter door to keep out blowing snow is all that makes sense.

 

[428PI]

I am going to change it's use. It will be used more as a shop and car storage and I don't need rats in my cars like now. It was built on a old barn foundation that blew away in a tornado back in 1970 or so. I call it a barn because hay was stored in it and some livestock on the rear lean two. Look at the interior wall picture and tell me the proper way to insulate and add osb or interior metal. I really don't want to "double" wall that interior wall due to costs, etc. Probably more concerned with keeping the radiant heat and cold from the exterior metal from heating and cooling the building. Perhaps no insulation is needed on interior wall.

 

[boo coo tracks]

Get a couple of barn cats, that will solve your rat problem.
Tracks

 

[James-W]

]I would seriously consider demo, removal, site prep, and a new, tight building.
[/COLOR]
Seems like every project where I had to make major changes to an old, non historic structure, the time, money, and effort was almost as much as clearing the site and starting fresh..

Just a thought, though.

Foam seems to degrade, at least visually, if left exposed. I don’t think it has much in the way of uv inhibitors.

I am in agreement with this. To the opening poster, seriously, I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I have seen, even helped, others fix up an old building. After all the time and money spent on fixing it up, it still isn't like it would have been if it had been torn down and a new building put up in its place. I am not trying to tell you what to do, I am simply giving you my honest and heartfelt opinion on this. Do yourself a favor, tear it down and put up a really nice workshop in its place. At some point down the road you will be happy that you did.

 

[Bretny]

I wouldnt tear it down either. You can say everything costs time and money so why would finishing a old building be wasting time/money if you still have to do the same things to a new one.

People love spray foam but its quite expensive. They do make special insulation for pole buildings. Have you looked any where else but on here?

 

[James-W]

I wouldnt tear it down either. You can say everything costs time and money so why would finishing a old building be wasting time/money if you still have to do the same things to a new one.

People love spray foam but its quite expensive. They do make special insulation for pole buildings. Have you looked any where else but on here?

Because by the time he gets finished refurbishing the old barn and turns it into a really nice workshop, he will have roughly the same amount of time and money into it as he would have if he were to put up a new building. Keep in mind he will need to do the remodel job to the new building code standards and have everything inspected and approved, unless he plans to do all this without permits and inspections.

On the other hand, if he builds a new building he can put it where he wants it and he can make it exactly the way he wants it. If he remodels this one he will have the same basic shape and size. If he changes the basic shape and/or size then he is essentially building a new one anyway.

I understand that a lot of people want to repair the old rather than build new, whether it be a house or a garage or whatever. In my lifetime I have seen this happen on numerous occasions, and have been a part of it on some of those occasions. More times than not the people who have done a remodel, in the end, wish they had just torn it down and started over. What they end up with isn't really what they wanted, but they end up having to settle for it anyway. Once you have spent all the time and the money doing the remodel, it is a little too late to tear it down and start over.

This is my personal experience with this type of thing, others may have had different experiences along the same lines. Everyone needs to do what they feel is best for them. My feeling is that there are times when a remodel is a good idea, and there are times when it isn't such a good idea, it all depends on the situation and the current condition of the building.

 

[428PI]

No permits required for remodeling. Only on new construction. No codes need to be met in either case. The only thing we're doing because it's an old structure is pulling in the base plate where it has allowed the outer wall to move outward a few inches and perhaps replacing a part of the old barn foundation. We'd be tying the foundation into the new concrete pad with some all thread to prevent outward movement of base plate. Perhaps replacing the fiberglass skylights with metal, etc. Replacing the sliding doors with a 16x10 garage door and adding a walk in door instead of split doors on it now. Like I said, in current form it's as useful as the day it was put up. Why would I tear that down? I've got plenty of room to work with.

 

[matt_i]

Before investing in spray foam, I'd figure out how to replace the slider door. In my experience those are so loose in terms of air sealing that its going to negate the benefits that you paid for in the foaming.

I'm also not sure about the soffits, they also look pretty loose. At minimum it should exclude birds and bats. If they are open (for venting the attic to the ridge) then there should be a ceiling, otherwise, same issue as above, air-tightness is critical when trying to trap heated air.

Imo, rats need some kind of metal barrier to exclude them from the foam. It can be something like hardware cloth (metal mesh) or also bent pieces of galvanized sheetmetal. But you have to spend time prepping like that. Creatures are very persistent when they have the opportunity to get inside somewhere sheltered and warm.

Which also raises another question, how are you planning to heat the space?

 

[James-W]

No permits required for remodeling. Only on new construction. No codes need to be met in either case. The only thing we're doing because it's an old structure is pulling in the base plate where it has allowed the outer wall to move outward a few inches and perhaps replacing a part of the old barn foundation. We'd be tying the foundation into the new concrete pad with some all thread to prevent outward movement of base plate. Perhaps replacing the fiberglass skylights with metal, etc. Replacing the sliding doors with a 16x10 garage door and adding a walk in door instead of split doors on it now. Like I said, in current form it's as useful as the day it was put up. Why would I tear that down? I've got plenty of room to work with.

WOW! I have never heard of such a thing as no permits are required to do a remodel. But, if that is the way it is where you live, then that's the way it is.

 

[Bretny]

If your going to pay someone to fix every board or hole in the siding then yes tear it down. A little sweat equity can go a long way here.

 

[gnpenning]

WOW! I have never heard of such a thing as no permits are required to do a remodel. But, if that is the way it is where you live, then that's the way it is.

If your building in the county and not a city in my area it's the same way. When I built my house 10 years ago the only inspections I had were septic and electric. Even without inspections I built to the UBC requirements for the time. I'll do the same thing on my next place. Way to much at stake not to.


To the OP, with good bones I would finish out what you have.

 

[dfiler2]

No permits required here for remodel and only plumbing and electrical for new. I think you have a few choices but foaming would be the best and easiest for you. You could use sheets of styrofoam cut to fit between studs, it looks like you have non-traditional stud spacing so it will be a matter of cutting and fitting each one. You could also use a kraft faced fiberglass as long as you can find some wide enough for some of those stud spacings.

A couple of inches of foam will seal it up and add a lot of strength. You can make those sliding doors pretty tight, certainly as tight as an overhead, but you may need to re-build it using the metal framing kits. Good luck, it will make you a nice shop.

 

[kbs2244]

WOW! I have never heard of such a thing as no permits are required to do a remodel. But, if that is the way it is where you live, then that's the way it is.

With AG zoning it is common