Removable feeder house welders.

[bobcatdan]

Is there a real advantage of a removable feeder house to justify the cost. SO is the only one I know offer it, anybody else? I'm pretty solid fan of miller welders and most likely the brand I will buy when I upgrade my welder. The other advantage that the SO offers is the promise of 100% duty cycle at high amps vs 60% for other brands. No need to beat the **** out of SO welders as I do like blue very much so I don't need the the hard sell to go blue. Just curious if the idea of the removable feeder is good, or a stupid gimmick.

 

[sam.coll]

See them quite a bit in truck body builders usually have the wirefeeder suspended above on a gantry arm so that it is able to be moved easily around the vehicle while the power supply stays put. Common on high amperage machines above 300

http://www.cigweld.com.au/product/mig-welding-equipment/transmig-400sp-power-source-gas-cooled/

 

[just a noob]

I went to Kuhn Knight in Brodhead and they had all Miller feed units if I remember. They were suspended above the work so they didn't have to drag a cord all around the project they were working on. The only issue is that I think the power supplies the over head units go to are 3 phase.

 

[MJD1]

I think with the snap on welders it is pretty much a gimmick on a overpriced , imported welder. In industrial settings and pro weld shops you will see a power source that is often multiprocess such as a miller XMT or a large CV power source like a millet gold star that may be 400- 600 amps or more. They make remote control feeders that use a welding current lead and a remote lead and then there are across the arc , voltage sensing feeders that just use the welding lead for power. The vs feeder can be used 100' or more from the power source for portability. I use a XMT with a rc feeder in the shop and either a Lincoln ranger engine drive or a XMT with a voltage sense feeder for outside work or somewhere away from the shop. Pretty much depends on the type of work you do. The welder with the built in feeder works well for many, but the power source with external feeder typically has many more features and power to do a better job.

 

[bobcatdan]

What I'm looking at doing is this: the welder can stay put in its spot next to bench so if I have a bench job, I simply turn the unit on and go to town. No pulling it out from the back, plugging it in and what not. I know that's not a real big deal, but its what I ideally want. With the removable feeder house, I can pop it off and reach anything in my 24x 24 shop. This would eliminate the need to roll the welder out and use an extension cord if needed. Once again, not a big deal, but the idea of the welder staying put is kinda nice. The no haggle starting price I got via text on an SO 350 was $3800 which I have to think or real hard about and see if I can do better on. On the other hand, I can get real good deals on Miller. I can get a 252 new for very close to a Hobart ironman, so the price advantage is Miller all day long. This comes down to weighing pros vs con's and I'm pretty sure the Miller wins, but wanted to see what others think.

 

[bobcatdan]

Also if I would choose to go the SO route, it has two hoops to jump threw. First I have to decide if I really want to go to a large machine. A 211 should really be enough machine for what I'd do at home. So the first thing is 211 vs 252. If I choose to go with the 252, then it goes to round two, 252 vs SO 350.

 

[sam.coll]

If it were me Id go the miller, cheaper, parts/service more readily available and those interconnecting leads can be a real pain to keep tidy/organized

 

[Bobcat753]

I wouldn't get the SO. The pawn shop that I work at has a brand new one and I'm not impressed. The feeder can only move about 6ft away from the unit. Also the amperage/wire feed controls are really weird compared to a miller or lincoln. Another thing is they don't use standard DINSE cable ends. One more thing the consumables are harder to get meaning you can't walk into your LWS and get them. I think it would be best for you to get a nice miller or lincoln.

 

[bobcatdan]

I wouldn't get the SO. The pawn shop that I work at has a brand new one and I'm not impressed. The feeder can only move about 6ft away from the unit. Also the amperage/wire feed controls are really weird compared to a miller or lincoln. Another thing is they don't use standard DINSE cable ends. One more thing the consumables are harder to get meaning you can't walk into your LWS and get them. I think it would be best for you to get a nice miller or lincoln.

This is the info I'm looking for. I thought the feeder had better travel of about 15', 6' is pointless. Also if it is a real odd duck, that is another big hit.

 

[Bobcat753]

Yea it is really odd. It's not made by snap on at all. It has a third party sticker on the side of it. Also another thing is it has the detent knobs so they click into place vs being infinatly adjustable. At school we have miller 251 and 252 machines. I love the 252 as its more user friendly. Has a nice 4 page amperage chart in the front vs flipping up the wire feed door.

 

[dr_clyde]

If you compare to a similar Miller or Lincoln you'll find that the snapon doesn't really have any features that set it apart. The 100% duty cycle thing is kind of a joke. I've run comparable miller welders at max output doing heavy fab work and never had a problem with the duty cycle. Snapon just jigger the numbers so they can say that. Most red and blue welders have higher amperage capacity than their name indicates anyway. This should not be a deciding factor. There's a reason Miller welders populate professional fab shops and not snapon. Just size your welder appropriately and you should never have a problem.

Miller and Lincoln parts are readily available, prices are competitive and they are well made. You don't have to deal with SO every time you need tips or a liner. IMHO this is one area where it's not worth dealing with SO.

 

[bobcatdan]

At work I have a miller 250 that is pretty much my own since everybody arc welds everything. I love it, so easy to use and lays beautiful beads. On the flip side, I hate Lincoln. Between the one I have and the others I have used, all were just pain in the *** to use and to lay anything other then pretty ************ at best was a chore. The only Lincoln welder I ever had respect for and I'm ridiculed for it was the classic tombstone. That was the other unknown with the SO was the operating experience. If it is anything like the POS 255xt at my old work, I'd be pissed. All said thou, I didn't start this thread just to talk SO welders, but find out if there was another option to get the feature in a package like what SO offers. I'm limited to standard 220v.

 

[KPSquared]

Go with the Miller just for the ease of getting consumables unless there's a local shop selling parts for those Systematics rigs.

Does anyone else rebrand that Systematics welder without the SO mark up? I think my biggest issue is you'll pay dearly for the SO name. Might be a good welder.

I've never been inconvenienced enough in our big shop at the farm to ever wish the 252 had a remote feeder. It has wheels...

 

[bobcatdan]

I really don't see rolling the welder to the job being a big deal, or any deal at all. I simply started pondering the removable feeder idea and wondered if it was anything great. I guess if it was a wonder feature, Miller or Lincoln would offer it too on 250 sized machines.

 

[KPSquared]

Might be systematics being innovative... Miller and Lincoln just might know it would be a hard sell to the average consumer just because the convenience isn't worth the extra bucks.

Snap On knows they can convince almost any $1 down addict that it's a good idea so they'll probably sell lots.

I can see how it would be handy, but not handy enough to make me buy a machine I have to over pay for and can't easily get consumables for.

 

[bobcatdan]

This pretty much where my thoughts are going. I didn't know SO's consumables were odd ducks that I could only get from SO. Also if the overall opinion that the welders are cheesy doesn't excite me either. I knew there was not much love for their welders, but I didn't know if it was simply cost, yet still good quality. Or high cost and low quality. I've grown to love Miller welders too much that looking elsewhere is foolish on my part.

 

[MJD1]

To the Op , I am about 50 miles west of you. If you want to check out an XMT with a separate feeder or a mm252 you can pm me.

 

[bobcatdan]

Does miller offer a XMT is straight 220. From what I've read once you past the 252, everything bigger jumps the 3 phase including the 350. We have XMTs at work, but everything is 460 including the 250 I normally use. This is for a home shop so a high production machine is overkill. A 252 is pushing overkill realistically. Me worring about greater then 60% duty cycle is rather silly too.

 

[KPSquared]

You're only worried about it because Snap-on told you to be... I think you've pretty much answered all the questions you asked by yourself...

 

[bobcatdan]

You're only worried about it because Snap-on told you to be... I think you've pretty much answered all the questions you asked by yourself...

You are correct I pretty much knew the answer before I asked, but I wanted to verify my thinking. I'm always up to learn something new and if the results of this thread had shown SO welders have a soild following and that they were truly awesome machines worth the money, from there I would have shown more interested in them. I'm back to where I started, 211 vs 252. Besides, worring about duty cycle really is a very low. At home I can't see too many times I'm going to be pushing a 252 at its higher limits for extended amount of time anyway. Maybe replacing a cutting edge on a bucket here or there, but that is about it.

 

[KPSquared]

Bigger is better... Here's a great discussion on it: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/showthread.php?27036-millermatic-211-vs-252

 

[justanengineer]

See them quite a bit in truck body builders usually have the wirefeeder suspended above on a gantry arm so that it is able to be moved easily around the vehicle while the power supply stays put. Common on high amperage machines above 300

+1. The other advantage in a real fab shop is that youre not limited to one feeder size. In large shops and manufacturing plants its not uncommon to see them replaced with larger units capable of pulling wire from large spools weighing multiple tons, thereby saving the cost of buying it a couple dozen lbs at a time and the time/effort of changing spools too often.

 

[bobcatdan]

Since I have been full of silly questions, here's one more. If I'm use to a 250 running on 460v at work, will there be a difference running standard 220v at home?

 

[MJD1]

On an XMT there is some de rating on the duty cycle when it is ran with 220 single phase. A 252 will run on 200 -460 volt single phase only. There is no difference on output, its just linked differently. The only thing I would be worried about is melting the m-25 mig gun that comes on a 252. I believe you can upgrade to a Bernard Q-300 gun on miller welders upon purchase. To me it would be foolish to buy an imported Snap On welder when you can buy a Miller that was literally built and supported right in your back yard.

 

[bobcatdan]

On an XMT there is some de rating on the duty cycle when it is ran with 220 single phase. A 252 will run on 200 -460 volt single phase only. There is no difference on output, its just linked differently. The only thing I would be worried about is melting the m-25 mig gun that comes on a 252. I believe you can upgrade to a Bernard Q-300 gun on miller welders upon purchase. To me it would be foolish to buy an imported Snap On welder when you can buy a Miller that was literally built and supported right in your back yard.

The thought of buying an SO welder is all but dead thanks to the input of this thread. As for the gun on a 460v power 252, I know what you mean. In doing heavy max voltage welding with the 250 for a lengthy time, even in trying to watch duty cycles, the gun gets so hot, I could barely hold it by the time I figured I should to give it a rest. I'm a bad boy, I pretty much never wear gloves..

 

[dr_clyde]

FWIW, I have a 211 and have run plenty of 250 class machines. The 211 is a great welder for 3/16 and under. It's rated for 1/4" but it doesn't have the balls, IMO. My main mig is a lincoln Invertec V300 pro and an LN-7 feeder. I can run this on 240 single or three phase.

If I was in your shoes I'd get a Millermatic 252 and be done with it. They're great dependable welders. This should run fine on a dedicated 240v 50a circuit.

 

[sberry]

You don't want removable, you want simple stand alone unit and rig it so its convenient. Its too bad your experience with red is a problem, not sure why? I cant tell the difference.

 

[speed bump]

If you really want a removable feeder just keep your eyes out for a used LN-25 or Miller Suitcase feeder they are pretty easy to find for $1000. Then figure out how much you need for power and pick the appropriate power source either electric or engine drive.