Remove garage staircase wall?

[Yetti37]

I'm adding a utility sink to my new garage and wanted to create a larger gap between my car and the sink's location. There is a wall on the left side of the stairs and I don't understand the purpose for it. I only have three risers, there is a handrail on the right side, and the total drop from the house floor to the garage floor is less than 30" so I don't think this is required by code (definitely not an expert on this so I could be wrong). The builder has been installing these on all of the new houses in my neighborhood and when I questioned them on it, the foreman couldn't explain why they were required.

I would like to remove this wall so that I can slide the sink down a couple of inches closer to the stairs which would create a larger gap between my car and the sink. Is there any reason why I cannot remove the wall to the left of the staircase? Pre-drywall and finished photos are below.

 

[larry4406]

Virginia Code says hand rails not required unless there are 4 or more risers. You have 3.

That knee wall between the stair and sink is not required. Many builders install them routinely as the number of steps to the garage varies and its easier to just train the crews to always install it.

Fairfax County does the inspections for the Town of Vienna.

You should have 5/8" Type X drywall between the garage steps and the house. This could only occur if the stairs were installed after garage drywall hang.

 

[Yetti37]

Thanks for the info.

I do have 5/8" drywall on that wall. Had to go back to Lowe's after figuring that out when I was patching the holes I made for running the plumbing. You also just pointed out that I forgot update my profile after recently moving out of Vienna.

 

[larry4406]

Thanks for the info.

I do have 5/8" drywall on that wall. Had to go back to Lowe's after figuring that out when I was patching the holes I made for running the plumbing. You also just pointed out that I forgot update my profile after recently moving out of Vienna.

The 5/8" Type X drywall needs to be between your steps and the house framing. Your framer installed the steps first, and I assume the drywall contractor just worked around it vs removing the steps, applying the drywall, then reinstalling the steps.

Appears you have a breach in your fire rating.

 

[The Cobbler]

probably doing it just because . I kind of like that wall there tho. maybe a sheet of ply attached in it's place would give you the "more room you need" & keep a barrier between the stairs & sink.

 

[Viper98912]

Looks like it was code somewhere or at some point in time (or an inspector requested it during an inspection). Probably a handrail for a staircase. But they ended up placing the handrail on the opposite wall anyway haha.

In a previous house I bought new, the framers put in a 2x4 handrail such as what you had (pre-drywall). When I bought the house, I didn't notice it had been removed (and subsequently I think it was put in my neighbor's house, which was finished about 3 months after mine). My guess is they used my rail for the inspection, then took it out and put it in the neighbors house when they needed to pass his

I'd assume it's fine to remove but as stated earlier have the right drywall in place...

 

[CombatNinja]

Seems like a lot of work to gain 3" of usable space. Why not just keep the wall but turn the sink 90 degrees? That would get you triple the additional room.

 

[Yetti37]

The 5/8" Type X drywall needs to be between your steps and the house framing. Your framer installed the steps first, and I assume the drywall contractor just worked around it vs removing the steps, applying the drywall, then reinstalling the steps.

Appears you have a breach in your fire rating.

Appreciate you pointing this out. I have zero faith in the drywaller contractor actually removing the steps to apply drywall all around. They drywalled over a central vac port, a light switch, and our sewage cleanout access point. Thankfully, I have hundreds of pre-drywall photos to prove the screwed up and got them to fix all of these.

probably doing it just because . I kind of like that wall there tho. maybe a sheet of ply attached in it's place would give you the "more room you need" & keep a barrier between the stairs & sink.

Interesting idea on adding a thin barrier. I will do that if I don't like the look after removing the wall.

Seems like a lot of work to gain 3" of usable space. Why not just keep the wall but turn the sink 90 degrees? That would get you triple the additional room.

It is a lot of work for such a small gain. The issue is the lack of size of the 2-car portion of my garage and using that space for parking two vehicles. A diagram of what I am working with is below. I have to angle my car in order to create enough space for my wife to get her truck doors open without putting dents in my car which puts me really close to the sink.

The only feasible way to get water lines and drainage to the garage was to put the sink next to the stairs. With the sink set where it is now, I have a five inch gap between the left side of my front bumper and the sink (see the 2nd image). That extra three inches will help reduce my fear of smashing my car into the sink (I have a ball on a string hanging from the ceiling but more space would be nice). I tried turning the sink 90 degrees (3rd image) as you suggested but that only gets me to an eight inch gap. The issue here is the shape of the front bumper and the middle of it sticking out farther than the left side so the space gained is minimal as well. This also creates an issue with squeezing by to get to the sink. The tight fit will be annoying and I am sure I will scrape against the car when trying that.

Also - sorry about the terrible lighting in the photos. Builder only put in three 100-watt light bulbs for a 3-car garage as they thought that would be adequate. Hoping to get some time to upgrade the lighting later this month.

 

[haveissues]

Get a smaller sink.

 

[duneslider]

Holy cow guys, he has the sink already. Tear out the little wall, it isn't needed for any reason. Many builders put the wall or a small hand rail in just to avoid any issues with inspectors. Production builders have the same subs for all houses and bid them all the same, they don't always know at the planning phase if the rise will be greater than or less than 30" so they just include it on all builds. Tear the wall out and put the sink in however you want it to be.

5/8" drywall isn't required by code in garages and hasn't been since 2010, maybe earlier than that. 5/8 is only required on ceilings if there is habitable space above. Some jurisdictions may still require it on the walls but it isn't in the code that way. R306.6 for reference.

 

[Bretny]

Every now and then one of these threads come about...trying to cram a car in a space it's hardly able to fit. Seams like a total pain in the *** to me.

 

[duneslider]

Not everyone can build 2000+ sqft garage mahals. Some people have to make the best with what they have and in my opinion if you can keep a car in a tight garage it is better than having it out in the weather in the driveway or on the street. Sometimes gaining 3 inches makes a huge difference.

 

[mike93lx]

Every now and then one of these threads come about...trying to cram a car in a space it's hardly able to fit. Seams like a total pain in the *** to me.

So he should not use the garage he has?

 

[John in OH]

Not that I can offer any advice here other than what has already been offered; however, it does allow me get on my soapbox and rant!!

This whole issue is a result of builders that keep building garages that are absurdly small. I realize not everyone can afford, or needs, a huge garage, but really, is adding two or four feet in width/length really gonna break the bank? When I become Supreme Poohbah, I'm going to require that all garages billed as a "two-car" must be at least 24' x 24'. Anything less will have to be advertised as a 1-1/2 car garage!!

 

[FredWanaker]

looking at the diagram - get a smaller sink, turn it 90 degrees, or relocate it. Even if the wall is removed the sink still has to be re-plumbed.

 

[haveissues]

Holy cow guys, he has the sink already

Sure, he has a sink but its the wrong size sink. Or he could get smaller vehicles but I'm betting a smaller plastic slop sink is cheaper.

 

[dcg9381]

Put me in the "smaller sink" camp. Thanks to all the guys that know local code and local inspection practices. Even w/o code, I see a sink I can bump into when walking down stairs as a hazard to me personally.. Or a guest.

Then again, I've still got an unused space in my laundry room (with plumbing) that was made for a sink. We just don't use one, so I'm biased.

And yea, not everyone can build a house around a garage, it took me decades to find the opportunity to do that.

 

[PoorUB]

Not that I can offer any advice here other than what has already been offered; however, it does allow me get on my soapbox and rant!!

This whole issue is a result of builders that keep building garages that are absurdly small. I realize not everyone can afford, or needs, a huge garage, but really, is adding two or four feet in width/length really gonna break the bank? When I become Supreme Poohbah, I'm going to require that all garages billed as a "two-car" must be at least 24' x 24'. Anything less will have to be advertised as a 1-1/2 car garage!!

If comes down to builders. So many homes are tract built, the buyer just comes along and buys a finished home. When looking at costs to build if the builder can wack $1,000 off on a 100 homes it is $100,000 back into his pocket. If he can fit three Prius in there it is a three car garage!

If it is a custom home I would assume most homeowners would take a better look at everything, including the garage. But even then you have budgets. If you have only so much money there will be a bit of give and take. Also a good portion of homeowners don't even think about the size of the garage. They buy a house and as long as it has a two stall they are happy. Then you do run into people like my daughter's neighbor. Nice deep garage, probably 34 feet deep. @4 feet wide, so fine for two cars. Big problem, seven foot door and his slightly lifted pickup don't fit under the header.

Now if I were to build my own it would be 28 feet deep and the width about the same unless I wanted three or more stalls. 24 feet deep it too shallow IMO.

 

[John in OH]

If comes down to builders. So many homes are tract built, the buyer just comes along and buys a finished home. When looking at costs to build if the builder can wack $1,000 off on a 100 homes it is $100,000 back into his pocket. If he can fit three Prius in there it is a three car garage!

If it is a custom home I would assume most homeowners would take a better look at everything, including the garage. But even then you have budgets. If you have only so much money there will be a bit of give and take. Also a good portion of homeowners don't even think about the size of the garage. They buy a house and as long as it has a two stall they are happy. Then you do run into people like my daughter's neighbor. Nice deep garage, probably 34 feet deep. @4 feet wide, so fine for two cars. Big problem, seven foot door and his slightly lifted pickup don't fit under the header.

Now if I were to build my own it would be 28 feet deep and the width about the same unless I wanted three or more stalls. 24 feet deep it too shallow IMO.

Yeah, I know and understand the economics of the whole deal ... that's why I call it a soapbox rant!! Makes me feel better and I don't have to kick the dog!!

 

[CombatNinja]

If your wife can't park in the garage without denting up your car (and, by extension, dinging up her car as well), tell her she is kicked out of the garage.

 

[PoorUB]

If your wife can't park in the garage without denting up your car (and, by extension, dinging up her car as well), tell her she is kicked out of the garage.

Then she tells you if the garage is so damned important to you, you can just sleep out there too!

 

[Yetti37]

Interesting responses today...

Yes, I know the sink is large but that is on purpose so that it can be used to wash the dog and some other large items. I wish there was more space in this portion of the garage but as mentioned above, builders keep reducing the size of garages while vehicles are getting larger.

We were limited by the builder's approved options list and there is no deviating from those (surprisingly offering more money doesn't work). We would have loved to do a fully custom build but that was going to be an 18 - 24 month process and we weren't able to wait that long when relocating.

Going to rip the wall out and maybe put some type of thin divider in to separate the sink & stairs. Eventually, I will get a thread started for the garage gallery.

 

[ITGuy1998]

Could you relocate the sink to the front left corner (of the left bay)? Definitely much more drywall work, as well as extending lines, but it would give you better access for parking.

I understand your situation. When we built our house, our builder was actually very open to changes/additions. We have an attached 3 car, with a bonus room above. I looked at both making the garage 3 feet deeper and 3 feet wider. The cost was prohibitive because of the finished space above. I could have done it at the time, but would have to have given up the 26x16 4th bay attached to the side. That was a deal breaker. Its not a huge deal - I just have to back my car into the 3rd bay so I can get out of the car. There is never enough room.

 

[Bretny]

If your wife can't park in the garage without denting up your car (and, by extension, dinging up her car as well), tell her she is kicked out of the garage.

This was basicly my meaning. If you need an extra 3in your car is to big of garage to small. You will be pulling in and out a very expensive piece of equipment with next to no visibility...yet think its protecting it.

 

[duneslider]

All I can say is I have been in the garage now for the first time in about 4 years and its a heck of a lot nicer to get in the car in the morning when its been stored inside at 50 degrees, no frost or snow on it, not scraping windows, not 10 degrees inside, etc. Even if it were a tight fit I would take that over parking outside. I made my current garage as big as I could get away with but I still wish it were a bit bigger. I would take a tight squeeze any day in the winter.

 

[Viper98912]

For all of the people saying their wives are kicked out of the garage, how many divorces have you been through?

I'm in agreement for potentially finding a completely different place to place the sink (the thought originally crossed my mind much earlier), because at the end of the day you need more space than 4", and the wife will have her spot/space if you're a man's man who believes in love and equality with your significant other. Even when she crashes your car.

 

[CombatNinja]

Zero divorces here. Going on 16 years married and 26 years together. She is not going to mess with my garage any more than I am going to bust up in her walk-in closet and tell her how to organize it. I will not tolerate anyone in my household denting up my cars, either figure out how to work around this 'quirk' or get out. It's also called just 'Being a Good Human'. If his wife can't park in that garage and get out of her car (familiar environs that varies very little day to day and with stuff paid for out of household funds) without banging up the cars, how much of a nightmare do you think she is out there in the general population? I promise you she is spreading the joy of door dings far and wide. She doesn't respect her own stuff, she isn't going to respect yours if she parks next to it.

 

[nadogail]

As property values continue to escalate and the OP's equity grows; the OP might consider flipping his house for one that has a more suitable garage.

As an alternate, as cars get smaller; consider upgrading to new smaller ones.

 

[FredWanaker]

Future post : we live in a house the former owner ripped out a small wall to make room for a sink next to the steps. My wife stumbled the other day coming down the steps, she has a bad knee, and fell into the sink due to the water and soap the dog shook all over the steps from the sink when it was washed in the sink. 12 stitches later, and a week in bed she wants me to put the wall back up. However if I do that she won't be able to pull her car in because the sink will be in the way. What do I do? Sincerely, in a pickle.

 

[ludakris04]

are you worried about going against code?
what is the code for running pipes through the wall into the garage? Did the builder install that?

 

[duneslider]

I love how derailed some of these posts get, super entertaining.

 

[FredWanaker]

I love how derailed some of these posts get, super entertaining.

Some people like peas. Some people do not. Of those who like them some people like canned peas, some gag on them. Some people like fresh uncooked peas, That horrifies some people. Some people like onions and cream with their peas, while others would avoid any family reunion where that dish was being served by their aunt, Some people like big sinks and no half walls, some people like other solutions. Personally, I like his half wall and probably would go look at another home if I saw he had been removing things like that BUT he doesn't like the wall and it is his house. One question no one has asked yet, will three inches of wall being removed really make the car fit all that better in the garage, or will someone come in late one day tired, and take out the sink anyway? Or will they park short and drop the garage door on the back of the car?

 

[ludakris04]

One question no one has asked yet, will three inches of wall being removed really make the car fit all that better in the garage, or will someone come in late one day tired, and take out the sink anyway? Or will they park short and drop the garage door on the back of the car?

I was thinking this.. park the car straight, in front of sink if needed.. park the truck crooked into the 3rd bay direction is needed...

 

[FredWanaker]

this is a 3 car garage. What is going on in the 3rd bay? Can you park the car there?

 

[CombatNinja]

His wife probably keeps $6.00 worth of ******** holiday decorations in the 3rd bay. He cannot touch them or move them. Until, of course, it is time to hang them on the house when he is half drunk on Thanksgiving and it is raining and 38 degrees outside. At that point, he is the only human in the house qualified to even consider touching them.

 

[mike93lx]

His wife probably keeps $6.00 worth of ******** holiday decorations in the 3rd bay. He cannot touch them or move them. Until, of course, it is time to hang them on the house when he is half drunk on Thanksgiving and it is raining and 38 degrees outside. At that point, he is the only human in the house qualified to even consider touching them.

Suspiciously specific...

You ok bud?

 

[Yetti37]

Could you relocate the sink to the front left corner (of the left bay)? Definitely much more drywall work, as well as extending lines, but it would give you better access for parking.

That's where I initially wanted to install it but getting the plumbing to that point was going to be an issue. Plumbing is already done so I am set with this location now.

Zero divorces here. Going on 16 years married and 26 years together. She is not going to mess with my garage any more than I am going to bust up in her walk-in closet and tell her how to organize it. I will not tolerate anyone in my household denting up my cars, either figure out how to work around this 'quirk' or get out. It's also called just 'Being a Good Human'. If his wife can't park in that garage and get out of her car (familiar environs that varies very little day to day and with stuff paid for out of household funds) without banging up the cars, how much of a nightmare do you think she is out there in the general population? I promise you she is spreading the joy of door dings far and wide. She doesn't respect her own stuff, she isn't going to respect yours if she parks next to it.

She isn't a ******* idiot that dings the **** out of car doors everywhere. We each want to be able to park our vehicles in the garage and we are able to do so without issue if I simply angle my car. We also have kids and I would rather remove the possibility of them dinging doors than pull my car in straight and have them inevitably damage it.

As property values continue to escalate and the OP's equity grows; the OP might consider flipping his house for one that has a more suitable garage.

As an alternate, as cars get smaller; consider upgrading to new smaller ones.

The house is brand new and we're not moving again. The model we selected had the largest garage offered. Only large vehicle we have is her truck.

are you worried about going against code?
what is the code for running pipes through the wall into the garage? Did the builder install that?

I was more curious as to why the wall was installed in the first place. It didn't seem necessary and I didn't think it would be required by code so I was trying to see if there were any reasons why it should remain.

Sink and plumbing to it were done after the house was built. No code issues for plumbing in the garage. Other houses around me have sinks and hot water heaters in their garages. I checked with our county and they said they didn't need to inspect it.

this is a 3 car garage. What is going on in the 3rd bay? Can you park the car there?

My lift and track car are in the third bay so the garage is completely full. I could park both of my cars in the third bay after I get the lift operating. Waiting on parts and my installer to convert that bay to a jack-shaft opener with high-lift tracks. Can't fit two cars there until the garage door tracks are out of the way.