removing a broken tap?

[emeraldcoupe]

don't know if this is the right place but...

i picked up an engine and it has a tap broken off in one of the engine mount holes. it's broken about 1/4" up in the hole. anyone know of a drill bit that's hard enough to drill it out or any suggestions on removing it? thanks guys.

 

[maxipouce]

What is the diameter of the tap?

 

[ghnl]

Seek ye a broken tap removal tool.

 

[emeraldcoupe]

it's a 7/16". do those extractors work?

 

[harvero]

The last one I broke off I ground out with a bunch of the cheap diamond dremel bits from HF.

For less than $10 I was able to save a 30 + year old aluminum motorcycle engine case.

 

[Dodgepu360]

I have had luck catching a flute with a small screw driver and tapping on it with a hammer to unscrew it but those had been broke flush with the surface

you might try a left handed drill bit, mcmaster-carr has some that are cobalt steel, the hardest they offer in a left handed
you might get lucky and have the drill bit catch the tap and unscrew it

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

You can always use a punch and just shatter it with a few good hammer blows. That's the easy way to get them out. once they break into pieces, pick them out.

 

[sberry]

Drilling a tap wont work, they are very hard.

 

[barney rubble]

I had a good friend show me a easy out that was broke off in a block that someone brought to him to fix. He took a masonry drill bit and drilled it. He said once you started you had to keep the drill going because when he stopped it the carbide popped off the bit. When he got a hole in it he put a smaller easy out in the broke off one and added heat to the block and backed it out. Most people I would not of believed but he showed me the 2 stuck together and this guy would not of lied to me anyway.

 

[mdbeck1]

I never had a lot of luck removing them. My best luck was a left handed drill bit or drill the tap out (and lots of cussing). I would grind them flat, center punch them, and go after them with at drill (this was before dremels were out). Start with a small, sharp drill bit and expect to go through several of them. If you get a hole in it go to a larger size until you can get it out.

The tool mentioned (broken tap removal tool) is probably your best bet. If you have a welder you might try the washer trick. Good luck.

 

[E.rodz]

try this little trick use a carbide masonary bit and a hammer drill the hammer drill is the key the hammering shatters the tap and you can take the pieces out as they brake off.

 

[rsanter]

tap removal tool
they do work

call a local machine shop and ask how much to have it done
if I recall a friend had it done for like $10 at a shop.
they guy brought the tool out to my friends truck

bob

 

[mdbeck1]

tap removal tool
they do work

call a local machine shop and ask how much to have it done
if I recall a friend had it done for like $10 at a shop.
they guy brought the tool out to my friends truck

bob

Most of mine seemed to be at the exhaust pipe to the exhaust manifold. I didn'tusually want to pull the exhaust manifold so I ended up working it from under the vehicle.

NO FUN....

 

[charliechinist]

first get some oil on it, then, go get an automatic center punch, you know, the ones that are spring loaded and you push until they click and put a mark in steel for lay out work when doing metal fab. This will dull the point so use a cheap one or just fix the tip on a grinder later.
If the punch is adjustable tighten it down. Find a spot on the jagged broken part of the tap where you can put the tip of the center punch (preferably with a slight counter clockwise angle). Push until it snaps-repeat. In most cases this will slowly back the tap out a little with every snap once it breaks free or it will shatter the rest of the.
Use eye protection! Like we always say in the machine shop, "the guy who doesn't use his eye protection must not have had enough **** stuck in his eyes yet"

 

[MattT]

tap removal tool
they do work sometimes

Fixed it for ya.

IME all the methods mentioned above will work sometimes. Aside from the hammerdrill method which I've never attempted. Just for reference relocating the hole and punching the broken tap thru' the hole then helicoiling also work but I doubt either of those are viable options on a block.

 

[emeraldcoupe]

thanks for the ideas. i'll let you guys know what happens.

 

[JSGAuto]

Never had any luck removing broken taps. The trick is to use good ones and toss them after they start to wear. But buy all means, try all of the above.

I usually resort to putting it on the mill, and use a carbide endmill, if you have such resources.

Does it have to come out? Can you live with one less bolt? (application depending)

 

[emeraldcoupe]

Never had any luck removing broken taps. The trick is to use good ones and toss them after they start to wear. But buy all means, try all of the above.

I usually resort to putting it on the mill, and use a carbide endmill, if you have such resources.

Does it have to come out? Can you live with one less bolt? (application depending)

it's a matco tap that broke, lol. there are only 2 bolts for the engine mounts so it needs to come out.

 

[MattT]

it's a matco tap that broke, lol.

It's probably only high carbon steel then. You might be able to drill the center of it out with a HSS drill bit if you take it slow.

I'm sure the chrome slingers will correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK the tool trucks don't carry HSS, AKA good, taps and dies.

 

[BillK]

EC,
Ask around some automotive machine shops and see if anyone has, or knows someone who has a "disintegrator" It is an EDM machine designed to burn out broken taps, bolts etc without hurting the surrounding metal. The guy near me that has one would charge around $40 to get that one tap out. Believe me that would be the best money you can ever spend.

We have tried just about every method know to man. If the tap remover does not work, it goes to heim to get burned out. I learned a long time ago that it is not worth fooling with

 

[Fubar]

Drilling a tap wont work, they are very hard.

Best way. Weld to it, and then weld a small bolt to the weld. working it back and forth it will come loose.

 

[Kevin54]

you might try a left handed drill bit, mcmaster-carr has some that are cobalt steel, the hardest they offer in a left handed
you might get lucky and have the drill bit catch the tap and unscrew it

You can always use a punch and just shatter it with a few good hammer blows. That's the easy way to get them out. once they break into pieces, pick them out.

I never had a lot of luck removing them. My best luck was a left handed drill bit or drill the tap out (and lots of cussing). I would grind them flat, center punch them, and go after them with at drill (this was before dremels were out). Start with a small, sharp drill bit and expect to go through several of them. If you get a hole in it go to a larger size until you can get it out.

It's probably only high carbon steel then. You might be able to drill the center of it out with a HSS drill bit if you take it slow.

Ask around some automotive machine shops and see if anyone has, or knows someone who has a "disintegrator" It is an EDM machine designed to burn out broken taps, bolts etc without hurting the surrounding metal. The guy near me that has one would charge around $40 to get that one tap out. Believe me that would be the best money you can ever spend.

I'm thinking a lot of these ideas are just tossed out there and some has never tried to remove a broken tap using said ideas. Taps are hardened. Harder than a HSS drill bit. You'll dull the bit before you make a mark on the tap.

Shattering it.....You are not going to do that on a 7/16" tap unless that tap is already split into 4 or 5 pieces the length of the tap. A 2 flute tap MAY shatter if you are lucky. If it is a 4 flute tap, forget it.

A tap extractor might work IF you are lucky. Chance are the tap was bottomed out before it broke. If so, then it is not going to back out with an extractor due to the fact that you will break or bend the tangs of the extractor first.

ELOX or EDM or "Disintigrator" (never heard it called that) will burn a tap out but finding a machine shop with one around is a crapshoot. Some small tool companies or job shops MAY have one. You'd have to call around.

The Center Punch method works sometimes and would well be worth a try before you go paying someone to remove it.

Welding a nut to it is your best route if you have access to a welder and the tap is flush with the top surface.

Carbide is about the only thing to drill a tap out then you have to be careful as carbide is really brittle. And if you break a drill bit off down inside with the tap, then you have two problems.

DO NOT use a hammer drill with a masonry bit on a tap. The tip of the bit will shatter. Carbide is brittle. Also if you are lucky enough to get a masonry bit started in a tap and keep going into it non stop, remember that a carbide tip is silver soldered onto to a HSS shank. It is possible to heat it up to the point the silver solder will actually melt and let go.

I would go with the welded nut method over everything first, then take it to someone that has experience with taking out broken taps.

I know what I am talking about as I have remove literally hundreds of broken taps over the years. Half of them was after someone screwed everything up trying to take them out themselves.

 

[Joe69]

I watched a guy I used to work with literally burn a 3/8 tap out with a torch, without touching the threads. I have tried it myself, with no luck. But this guy was a master with a torch.

Joe

 

[sberry]

With a torch you need to get it right the first try, once you get slag burned in the hole its about impossible to correct. With the pic I post of the welded tap that one was down hole about 1/4 or so, wasn't flush.

 

[emeraldcoupe]

Best way. Weld to it, and then weld a small bolt to the weld. working it back and forth it will come loose.

where on the cape are you? i'm from wareham originally.

thanks for the ideas guys. looks like i have to break out the welder, nothing is working so far.

 

[wreckercologist]

My personal experience is similar to Kevin54's with a few exceptions.

I can relate to the "get the tap out after someone else has made it worse" senerio. That said......

The punch method of shattering a tap can work sometimes. Depends on the work piece, the tap, ect. Not good for everything but has it's place.......kinda hard on the punch too.

Like most things, there are many ways to do something, the trick is finding a way that gives the desired results without adding to the damage (think hypocratic oath). If the person with the broke tap is unsure of their skills, it's best to let a pro look at it.

Welding is usually a good option, and cheap.

I've used the torch method of melting a tap, but only on through holes. Blind holes don't sound too good for this method.

EDM's are cool and all, but like Kevin54 said, finding one, and then finding someone that can use it is the problem.

Carbide endmill in a Bridgeport is a good method if you have the means.

Those Walton tap extractors are a pain and usually add to the frustration. I've never had good luck with them, and certainly never enough luck to warrant buying a set for myself. Some will dissagree and that's fine. They probably work ok for hand taps broken by hand and not taps broken by machine (power driven).

Just my .02.

 

[Jbullfrog]

Tap extractors will only remove a free tap. They will not break the tap free if it is jammed. You have to use a punch or chisel to break the tap loose and then hope you can still get the extractor's legs down the flutes to back it out.

 

[Fubar]

where on the cape are you? i'm from wareham originally.

thanks for the ideas guys. looks like i have to break out the welder, nothing is working so far.

Truro, way down. Weld to it, it's always worked for me.

 

[arkangel06]

Get a carbide drillbit

 

[stewart]

For the most part, Kevin54, I agree with your take on the replies to this post, and just when I'm about to say that Kevin54 is a no BS guy with a good handle on this garage thing, you go talking about generating enough heat w/a hammer drill to melt its brazed joint, that's thin, now I think you're spinning yarns. Kevin54, I'm not disrespecting you as I still consider you one of the sharper members.

Now, I've never tried the following, but a lot of you are suggesting, and I don't believe it is possible, but maybe somebody with a drill press or milling machine can video a carbide (Tin coated if you like the gold color) drill, boring a hole through the flute end of a true HSS tap, then please, video a carbide end mill taking cuts across the flutes of a HSS tap.

 

[Kevin54]

For the most part, Kevin54, I agree with your take on the replies to this post, and just when I'm about to say that Kevin54 is a no BS guy with a good handle on this garage thing, you go talking about generating enough heat w/a hammer drill to melt its brazed joint, that's thin, now I think you're spinning yarns. Kevin54, I'm not disrespecting you as I still consider you one of the sharper members.

Now, I've never tried the following, but a lot of you are suggesting, and I don't believe it is possible, but maybe somebody with a drill press or milling machine can video a carbide (Tin coated if you like the gold color) drill, boring a hole through the flute end of a true HSS tap, then please, video a carbide end mill taking cuts across the flutes of a HSS tap.

I didn't mean that a hammer drill would heat up to the point of melting a bit, but a hammer drill will shatter a carbide point on a masonry bit. And as far as spinning yarns, I really don't think so. I have had to remove broken taps, broken drills, broken carbide drills, easy outs, from holes. I would video tape it if I could and show you , but with the work that we do and the regulations that we have, I would not jeopardize my job for something like that. And if also that you never tried it, you are pretty adamant that it can't be done or it does not work. Carbide is a lot harder than HSS although it is more brittle.

So believe what you want. I know what it takes to take one out and have done hundreds over the 30 years that I have been in the profession. I don't have anything to prove to you, but send me something that you have broke a tap of in and I'll send it back to you with it out

 

[stewart]

Look Kevin54 I respect your knoweledge, but I said what I said because below is you quoted

"DO NOT use a hammer drill with a masonry bit on a tap. The tip of the bit will shatter. Carbide is brittle. Also if you are lucky enough to get a masonry bit started in a tap and keep going into it non stop, remember that a carbide tip is silver soldered onto to a HSS shank. It is possible to heat it up to the point the silver solder will actually melt and let go."

Like I said thats Thin!

Oh yeah! and Please don't risk national security by showing a carbide drill or endmill cutting HSS. I guess I could try it myself but i don't want to destroy either.

I still love you brother, and you are always welcome in my garage for a few beers, smokes and stories.

 

[Kevin54]

Look Kevin54 I respect your knoweledge, but I said what I said because below is you quoted

"DO NOT use a hammer drill with a masonry bit on a tap. The tip of the bit will shatter. Carbide is brittle. Also if you are lucky enough to get a masonry bit started in a tap and keep going into it non stop, remember that a carbide tip is silver soldered onto to a HSS shank. It is possible to heat it up to the point the silver solder will actually melt and let go."

Like I said thats Thin!

Oh yeah! and Please don't risk national security by showing a carbide drill or endmill cutting HSS. I guess I could try it myself but i don't want to destroy either.

I still love you brother, and you are always welcome in my garage for a few beers, smokes and stories.

Hey Stewart. I really don't understand why you want to be kind of smartass with me and I guess I really don't care, but the remark about risking National Security For one, my place of work has very strict policies about cameras, recording equipment of any types, and cell phone cameras. So why would I want to risk my job of thirty years to show you something that you doubt?
I have seen people heat up a solid carbide drill red hot going into a piece of stainless steel. I suppose you would doubt that too, but it happens if the speeds are ran high, and the bit is dull, and someone is trying to horse it down through there.
So if it happen in a piece of stainless it will happen on a hardened tool

Now if you have a problem with me or some of my remarks that I make in trying to help someone out, let's not air it on a public forum, but we can take it to a PM. I'm sorry you are getting your ******* in a bunch over a remark made then make a remark like the National Security. Evidently you either work for yourself or work for a place that has very lack policies. I guess what I can do though is the next time one of the workers take a masonry bit to use to take a tap out, I'll either send you the broken drill or the tip that came loose. Sound like a plan?