Removing a sheared off bolt that's stuck in the threads

[puttsy]

Hello again all! I got some advice about a mower deck awhile back and it was great! Got the blades off and spindles rebuilt and THAT mower is working well. But, I've got another mower now needing service (And I thought it was BOATS that were holes you throw money into...).

The idler pulley and bracket broke off the deck of my John Deere L130 mower (48" deck). Ok, so I figure it's the shaft or something, no big deal. Turns out the bolt that holds the bracket to the deck sheered off. Normally this is just a pain but doable. I go get the drill and screw/bolt extractor set and go to it. Well, I got the hole drilled into the remainder of the bolt (bolt broke off below the surface so there's no stub) and start screwing the extractor into it as usual, keep turning, turning, turning...finally the extractor gets stuck, won't budge, and I realize I had just punched through the bottom of the bolt (No, I didn't drill THROUGH the bolt entirely but, when you have 1/2" length of bolt remaining to work with, you do what you can.) So I go uh-oh., get some more tools and keep working at it.

After fighting with the bolt extractor (with tapping T-handle) and 4 different pairs of vice-grips, and soaking it with PB Blaster all the while, the extractor still would't go any further and the bolt sure wasn't budging. Heated it up to give it a try with the extractor, still nothing, so I end up backing the extractor out to clean up the square end (it got rounded off throughout this ordeal) to try again later...and here I am.

Any thoughts on how to get the blasted bolt out? Seems I've mutilated it pretty good so I'm hoping someone has a brilliant idea...

Otherwise I suppose I get to drill it out, tap a new hole (IF there's still enough of the mounting plate left...:S) or, drill it out and use a nut/bolt/lock-washer setup in it's place.

Hopefully many of those much smarter than I (believe me, there are a LOT of you on here) can help save my...hmm...again!

 

[jhelrey]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

Drill it out and use a locknut, bolt, washer setup.

 

[purplezr2]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

have you tried getting it good and hot with a torch?

 

[mypov]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

easy out? where you hammer the easy out into your hole that has been drilled into the left over bold...

OR...if you are a good welder and have access to a welder I have seen people weld a little at a time until they have made a protruding "******" to grab onto and turn the busted hardware out of the hole. This is quite advanced and you must be EXTREMELY careful to avoid welding to surfaces you should not be welding to

 

[malibu101]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

Keep stepping up in drill sizes until you are almost to the threads. Then use a punch and hammer to fold the remaining shell of bolt into the center and start picking it out.
Not easy and requires much care but has been done many times.

As was said, the hot wrench can be your friend to give it a few heat cycles to break the rust bond.

 

[puttsy]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

Tried 2 dates with a (light, propane) torch. (No O/A setup in MY shop)

The bolt is on a plate at an angle so, although I THOUGHT I drilled it in the center, it is slightly off to one side and as I stepped the hole up hoping a bigger Extractor would fit, the off-center hole in the bolt become more and more pronounced.

And finally...I wish I was an accomplished welder...or even know HOW to weld :S I've never actually used a welder and only seen guys welding once or twice so sticking a ****** on it isn't an option for ME to do. I may phone-a-friend though and purpose the idea, sounds the most painless and retains the deck as solely a JD part.

Thanks for the ideas guys!

 

[malibu101]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

Propane will probably not get you where you need to be. It nowhere near as hot as oxy/act. With more heat you can get "in and out" fast to thermal shock the parts.

Since youre off-center, As I said above maybe drill until almost hurting the threads that need to be saved and try various punches to break/bend what's left of the bolt out from the thin side of the hole.

 

[tribbles]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

I bet those goats are looking more attractive.

(No, not like THAT. )

 

[RBailey]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

A bit shade tree, but maybe grind the bottom off the extractor so it bights more before bottoming out ?

 

[bazzateer]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

Drill it out using progessively larger drill bits until you can 'collapse' what's left of the bolt out of the female thread. Then clean up the thread with a tap.

 

[djkeev]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

Heat, you NEED real heat. A small OXY/Acy set up works, not a lot of gas but....
http://www.lowes.com/pd_98353-1703-...7_?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004BT9JBM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

At the very least, a yellow can of MAPP gas. Us your propane burner on it. Though a proper MAPP head would be properly jetted and burn hotter i imagine. MAPP is a much hotter flame. It will take time to get it hot even with MAPP.

Here's a link, might help.......

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147930

Dave

 

[FunkyfullWidth]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

well, he already said that he drilled the hole somewhat off center... So he can only drill so much before messin up the hole. I think the best best would be to have someone weld a ****** or a nut to it. Or try to heat it up, get a smaller and real sharp chisel and see if you can spin it. Heat it, soak it, heat, soak, heat, hit with the chisel. What size bolt are you talkin here?

 

[djkeev]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

well, he already said that he drilled the hole somewhat off center... So he can only drill so much before messin up the hole. I think the best best would be to have someone weld a ****** or a nut to it. Or try to heat it up, get a smaller and real sharp chisel and see if you can spin it. Heat it, soak it, heat, soak, heat, hit with the chisel. What size bolt are you talkin here?

Agreed, you do NOT want to cut into the Female threads! If you do and extractor will grip the male stud and he female hole as well doing absolutely nothing!

Dave

 

[1948]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

it might be overkill for what youre doing, but on some engines that have stuck headbolts i take a oxy/acet torch and heat the bolt up, then i take a washer the size of the bolt, and weld it through the center(as if you were putting it onto the bolt) then welded on a steel pipe and then sprayed it with penetrating oil and then when it cooled enough worked it back and forth till it was loose and unscrewed it.

 

[djkeev]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

One other point, DO drill through the entire bolt, doing so will allow access behind for oils to work and microscopically collapses the bolt in on itself thus helping to break the bond with the female threads.

Dave

 

[rslaback]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

If you are going to continue to drill at all I would suggest picking up a set of left hand drills. Most times when you use them the bit will grab in the metal and turn out the stub.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTESearch?storeId=6970&N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=left+hand+drill+bits&Nty=1&D=left+hand+drill+bits&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial

 

[1grnlwn]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

Love the left hand drill method. You only have a few choices, drill and tap same size, drill and tap next larger size or use thru-bolt with locking washer and nut. One should work. Pics would be nice.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

Isn't this the second time I have recomended an oxy actylene setup? Now it's TWO times you have had a reason to buy a tool.....one more time and it will result in losing your Man Card!

 

[signcrafter]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

Since the hole is already off center just drill it out bigger and use a bolt/nut and be done. The only other thing that might work is drilling it out right up to the threads and then folding it over, but I've never had much luck with that, especially when the hole is off center.

 

[DandDMachine]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

I get a lot of customers coming into my shop with broken bolts. Some they havent touched others they have drilled off center and given up on. I have probably had to take out more than 500 broken bolts in my time, and have seen it all. My 2 cents worth to add to the other ideas here. Be careful with bolt extractors, if they break off inside its a real nightmare, I rarley use them unless I can drive them out from the back side when they break off. Penetrating oil helps especially if you can let it sit up right so gravity pulls it down rather than dripping away, I like JB80 from Justice Brothers and PB Blaster. Heat can definately help, be sure there is nothing that shouldnt get heated (bearings seals etc) and heating the bolts may very well get it out but will also tend to harden the bolt making it more difficult to drill. Left hand bits work great especially if the parent material is aluminum (use lots of penetrating oil). Since your hole is off center I would recommend using a dremel tool with a small grinding bit to try and realign the hole. Once the hole is better aligned you can try other methods. I like to use a punch that has been sharpened at an angle so you can collapse the threads of the bolt, and remove with a needle nose plier or compressed air. Good luck

 

[1948]

Re: Removing a sheered off bolt that's stuck in the threads

also, yall talk about drilling the bolts out.... a lot of bolts are hardened(esp the ones that are sheered off because they are more brittle) trying to drill a hardened bolt is like trying to push a 57 cadillac up a hill.... youll most likely need to heat it up and let it anneal.(soften)

 

[puttsy]

I bet those goats are looking more attractive.

(No, not like THAT. )

You made my day with that! And yep, REALLY wishing I had goats...Tired of fixing up mowers...and THIS mower WASN'T an old POS! (Not a great mower but surely, not bad like the Snapper I WAS working on and sought advice about)

Isn't this the second time I have recomended an oxy actylene setup? Now it's TWO times you have had a reason to buy a tool.....one more time and it will result in losing your Man Card!

I like the way you think sir! I shall price up a decent Oxy actylene setup and really fight to make it fit the budget. Would probably save a lot of guys' on here's time answering my 'stuck-in-the-mud' questions! AND NOOO!! Not my Man Card! And you sir, made my week!

Finally, I think I'm going to *shudder* try and collapse the bolt in at this point. I think the reason the bolt sheared off is because the PO used a generic SAE bolt in a metric hole. JD bolts are grade 5 (I think) and are that yellow (zinc yellow (?)) whereas this bolt is silver and was NOT too difficult to drill through. I've drilled into Grade 5 bolts before (to extract, ick!) and this one wasn't even close to as tough...was no different than the 3 or 4 standard bolts I've had sheared heads on. (Note: I've only removed about 10 sheared off bolts...comes with rusted **** lying around the acreage)

Thanks for the advice guys! It really is wonderful.

 

[Kevin54]

Can you post up a pic of where you are exactly working on this at. I know it's at the idler pulley and bracket. Are you sure it's not a carriage bolt that is rusted to the deck? If it isn't, then I think I'd just drill it then knock it out and replace it with either a carriage bolt or a standard hex bolt and a locknut. Is this the area I circled in red?

 

[puttsy]

Can you post up a pic of where you are exactly working on this at. I know it's at the idler pulley and bracket. Are you sure it's not a carriage bolt that is rusted to the deck? If it isn't, then I think I'd just drill it then knock it out and replace it with either a carriage bolt or a standard hex bolt and a locknut. Is this the area I circled in red?

The problem is, I believe I have the 2005 version of the mower that used a different deck (listed as the 'replacement deck) on that series mower. 2005 seems to be the only year they used that odd deck so finding info. has been iffy...

It's circled in red on the attached image. Part 5 is the bolt that sheared off (or, at least, a bolt of some similar size in it's place) leaving a chunk still in the deck.

The raised part on the deck is welded to the rest of the deck so removing just that small piece to work with isn't an option...that would be too easy.

 

[Sureshot]

I would seriously consider the welder and grinder with that torch. Zip the weld off that bracket. Drill out what you have left and weld a new nut back to the bracket. Weld it back to the deck.

 

[FunkyfullWidth]

Sounds like maybe you need to add a welder to the budget as well! I've had to use the weld a nut or washer to the broken bolt method before. Sometimes it's the only way.

 

[Okie Pete]

While you are heating up the bolt . Take a candle and let it melt around the bolt. The wax will flow around the bolt and help in removing it.

 

[diggerrick]

If you need more heat heat than propane, but can't justify a Porta Torch kit, you can pick up the Oxy/Mapp kit for about $55:

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/power-tools/welding/brazing-cutting-torch-kit/p-1451158-c-10163.htm

 

[puttsy]

If you need more heat heat than propane, but can't justify a Porta Torch kit, you can pick up the Oxy/Mapp kit for about $55:

Aww man! Now you tell me! I was just at menards yesterday picking up a few odds and ends, I didn't even know such a small little setup existed! (Menards is about an hour drive one way :S) The $300 setup mentioned earlier seemed a touch over what I would want to spend for these [should be] rare occasions with seized and sheared hardware.

Now, not to get too off topic but, does anyone have a recommendation for learning HOW to weld? If I knew how to and had a small setup, I wouldn't really have a problem cutting that bracket off and going at it that way but, since I don't know how to weld, nor have the equipment, I'll probably need to take it to friends or family that have a welder and let them take care of this one. (Still not a small trip for THAT either!)

 

[DandDMachine]

The vo-tech school near me offered a introduction to welding course. It covered the basics of oxy acetylene cutting, heating and brazing, Arc welding, wire feed welding and even got into TIG a bit. You wont be a master welder when you leave but you get a good basic knowledge that you can build on. Maybe look into something like that in your area if its available.

 

[International VMX Star]

You can find these new for about $300, used $100-200, once you have it you'll wonder how you lived without it.

 

[bgott]

You can find these new for about $300, used $100-200, once you have it you'll wonder how you lived without it.

And you can swap the bottles at your local HVAC supply and they don't, at least mine doesn't, look at the dates. I've picked up a lot of spare bottles for cheap at yard sales, $15 to $20. I have four of each. The only problem with buying new is that when you take your shiney new bottles in for your first fill they just swap 'em for an old beat up set. Made me want to cry.

 

[andy6384]

A bit late replying as only recently joined this forum and you probably fixed it by now but it may be useful for others.

If the remaining bolt is not flush with the surface but has an half inch or more you can get a grip onto, then you can try what I did. Spray liberally with a light oil like WD40 and let it work it's way in. Get 2 nuts that fit the thread and screw them on and tight against each other, then use a spanner/wrench...etc to turn the bottom nut counter clockwise. The top nut acts as a lock so the whole bolt turns.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Well!!! Did you get it out?

I start out with heat and a touch with a candle, followed by a center punch and a hammer to slowly turn it out. Ez outs and PB blaster just don't work IMHO.

Chris

 

[cgall]

Another method I have used successfully with water pump bolts in an engine block is to drill a series of small holes inline to create a screwdriver slot. Drill them deep and use a flat blade screwdriver bit with a 3/8" drive.

Any grade 8 bolts broken off will require a carbide drill bit to remove.