Removing a spring pin in a blind hole

[xcgates]

Heads up, I'm self-taught by a nutjob who knows just enough to be dangerous, and has a limited grasp of the proper terms involved. You have been warned!

I'm being a cheap <fill in the blank with your favorite word/saying> and trying to fix up my speedometer gear on my Kawi, because a replacement is going to be more than $50, and I just want the speedometer, and more importantly, the odometer to work, as that is my only way to tell how much fuel is left.

What it is is a thingy that sits on the front axle, and a ring gear is turned by the wheel, which in turn rotates another gear that rotates the speedo cable. Both of these gears seem stripped just enough to cause problems.

Once I cleaned out all the grease, if I hold it so the secondary gear (one that turns the speedo cable) is on top, gravity holds it down enough to work reliably. Flip it the way it rides on the bike, and we are back to non-working.

I want to take the secondary gear out to see if I can shim/jimmy something up to hold it 'up' so that it works for a while longer. That gear is held in by a spring pin in a blind hole, and I can't get needle-nose pliers or picks to get a good grasp on the little ******. For reference, the hole appears to be ~2mm, and a 1.5mm allen wrench just barely doesn't fit inside of the pin. A 1/16" punch fits in with a little bit of wiggle.

Did a bit of research, and the only ideas I've seen that even *might* work are to pack the hole with something, either grease or toilet paper soaked in water, and to take a punch and use hydraulic pressure to get the pin out.

If I knew I wasn't going to damage anything I'd just drill the pin out, and drill through the end of the blind hole, find a new spring clip, and call it good, but looking at the parts diagram gives me enough heebee-jeebees that I'll drill through something important, that I don't really want to do it.

 

[A_Pmech]

Ditch that stuff for a bicycle speedometer.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Well, you shot down my idea. I would have taken a drill bit the size of the pin, gauged the depth of the hole, set a drill stop to that depth on the bit, and go for it. What's the worst that can happen, you drill up to the next metric/sae size (whatever's closest)?

I've done this before, then drilled/tapped/countersunk the whole thing, and stuck a screw in it. Easy to deal with the second time.

 

[xcgates]

No drill press, hand drill only.

Of course if I get to the point of buying a new one, I may do it by hand just because I have nothing to lose.

Re: bike speedometer, the ones I've seen probably aren't very waterproof in thunderstorms, aren't nearly as easy to see at night, and are most of the way to the cost of the proper part.

::EDIT:: Where would I even FIND a new spring pin? A place like Fastenal? Maybe even Home Depot/Lowes? Autoparts stores?

 

[nissan_crawler]

*shrug* I guess I never would have even considered using a drill press to do it in the first place. If your eyeball is half accurate, that bit is going to want to follow the center of the roll pin.

Any hardware store will have them (although perhaps not in metric). Even HF has them in assortments. I wouldn't rely on them for major things, but I doubt you're going to kill a HF one in a speedo.

 

[A_Pmech]

Ditch that stuff for a bicycle speedometer.

I should add..

Not all bicycle speedos will go over 50MPH or so. However, the Sigma BC800 has been A_Pmech tested and QC Cat approved to speeds FAR higher than that Kawi will go.

 

[ibedayank]

Xcgates i think the term you are looking for is roll pin....... its a pin that is rolled and most are made from spring steel

 

[xcgates]

Maybe, I called it spring pin because on the parts explosion it is: "92043 41082-001 PIN,SPRING"

 

[YellowLakeWelding]

Spring Pin, Roll Pin, Split Pin.
http://www.engineersedge.com/roll_pin.htm

There is also "Coiled Spring Pin" which you can guess is well...coiled rather than just split. The Coiled pins that I've seen over the years are made of thinner spring steel than the split style spring pins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coiled_spring_pins

 

[j-guenth]

If it is a spring pin with a hole in it, try a small sheet metal screw and pull it out with your pliers.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Having not seen the situation, can you drill a small hole through the center of the roll pin, then using that hole as a guide, drill from the other side with a hole just large enough and deep enough to expose the other end of the pin to let you use a pin punch to drive the roll pin out? Can you post pics? That might help.

 

[claymont]

If there's enough sticking out for you to get the drill chuck on and leave a little space under for prying, that works sometimes. Tighten it up real good and put a little penetrating fluid in it and try prying or wedging with a screwdriver blade. Don't run the drill

 

[xcgates]

Will do, gotta do some eating first, but here is the explosion.

 

[Lotek]

To remove blind rollpins, I have had good luck using a cheap small body slide hammer, I think mine was sold by Bondo, get a bunch of screws , they will strip out easily, may take more than one screw to pull the rollpin out enough to grab with a sharp pair of dykes and work it the rest of the way out.

 

[garfunkle24]

If it is a spring pin with a hole in it, try a small sheet metal screw and pull it out with your pliers.

To remove blind rollpins, I have had good luck using a cheap small body slide hammer, I think mine was sold by Bondo, get a bunch of screws , they will strip out easily, may take more than one screw to pull the rollpin out enough to grab with a sharp pair of dykes and work it the rest of the way out.

^^^I'm with these guys. Find a screw that will thread in tight and pull it out.

Also, did you try the hydraulic removal? If you have a punch that fits tight in the pin, should work great.

A screw-type seal puller on a slide gammer would work too.

 

[nissan_crawler]

If it's 1.5mm inside, you're not threading a screw in there. You're also going to have a hard time getting grease inside it to start with, and there's not much volume there, so any leakage at all, and you've lost all the force. I suppose it might work, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[xcgates]

Nope, grease didn't work, couldn't get a small enough screw, I'm just soaking it to remove all grease, going to file up the gears I can get at, pack in new wheel bearing grease, and see if it works.

If not, my neighbor told me about a junkyard that has similar vintage bikes that could probably supply me with what I need.

 

[garfunkle24]

How about using green loctite or epoxy to secure something inside the pin and then pulling that out? Or drive in a serrated nail and pull on that?

 

[xcgates]

Oh! I like that idea, and you just reminded me the part has been soaking for quite a while, better go get it out!

Where do I get a replacement pin though?

 

[ibedayank]

Xcgates can you post pics of the parts? my boss does have some older jap bikes for parts might be able to help ya.

 

[jsaw]

Having not seen the situation, can you drill a small hole through the center of the roll pin, then using that hole as a guide, drill from the other side with a hole just large enough and deep enough to expose the other end of the pin to let you use a pin punch to drive the roll pin out? Can you post pics? That might help.

That is how I did one last summer

 

[garfunkle24]

Oh! I like that idea, and you just reminded me the part has been soaking for quite a while, better go get it out!

Where do I get a replacement pin though?

Roll pins (even tiny metric ones) are well standardised, shouldn't be a problem. Fastenal probably sells 2mm roll pins for about $30 each

If you can't find it locally, McMaster Carr has just about everything.

 

[ol'roy]

hi, if it is a true roll pin, it will have a lengthwise gap in it, so the hydraulic approach may not work.......it is also likely to be tempered, making it hard to drill. you could lock it firmly in a milling machine vise and use a carbide end mill if you have access to that equip..the end mill od would need to be 15 to 30 thou. smaller than the compressed od of the pin, and the cut made concentric w/ the pin hole...one more poss. solution is if the other side of the blind hole is accessible, you could use a bit smaller than the id of the pin, drill completely through the casting, then use a bit slightly larger than the pin od and drill in from the backside till you hit the orig hole.then use the correct size punch and remove the pin from the rear..........[careful of any passages etc. if the rear approach is even poss.]..if the hyd approach is the only option, use as heavy a grease as avail...........you might even try a tapered easy out, driven in firmly....the square sided version would work better than the spiral design[hopefull a corner will lodge in the pin groove...............good luck...........ps., for all but the hyd. choices. preheat the casting to 200 to 300 degrees[a hair dryer on hi held close works good..........ol'roy