Rent or Build?

[Ridge Runner]

I'm wanting to eventually start up a hot rod shop, but right now I just need some place to practice on my own projects and do side jobs after work.

I'm 26 and back to living with my parents after school (yay me). Not counting gas and things I help my parents out with, I'm bringing home about $300-350 a week. I'm also paying about $300 per month on student loans. Assuming I don't have to quit soon because of the bad mold in my office, I'll be here for a year or two. This is a rural area, so rent is relatively cheap at $350 or so, but there aren't many places to go around; even fewer that are well built. My uncle owns a couple of warehouses and is thinking about letting me rent part of one, but it's a lot of work for him if he ends up having to partition it off and wire my part. The advantage here is I can start using one immediately and not have to save up longer to buy a welder, compressor, etc.

On the other hand, he (who also owns a construction company) figures I could build a bare essentials 24x36 ft garage with a 10 ft ceiling for $5000 if I'm careful with my money and do the work myself. Depending on how much extra it would add, I'd probably go ahead and make it 25x40 ft with about a 15-16 ft ceiling. I'd use gambrel trusses to make enough room in one bay for a lift and put a second floor over the rest of the shop. I don't indent to stay in this area, so after I'm gone my parents can use it for storage and a garage (it would be next to their house). To save money I'd build the doors myself to either slide to the side or on conventional hinges. I think if I stay here for two years and use it the whole time, it'll pay for itself in saved rent payments. Plus, assuming I can afford the second floor, we need the extra storage space.

What say you?

 

[Daniel Dudley]

You need to make a plan and price the materials. Off the top of my head, 5,000 seems optimistic.

Pole barns are the cheapest, and you can get the poles up, get the roof on, and worry about siding and concrete later. I worked off of gravel for a while, until I could afford the walls an floor. Also, you can always add a set of poles to the back and go another 8 feet whenever you want to.

 

[Sureshot]

Why do you plan on leaving? Where do you want to eventually work on Hotrods? What did you go to school for? Why not leave now and build something where you move to or when you return?

Starting a hotrod business in an area with a depressed economy generally doesn't seem like a good business plan unless you have national draw and use the cheap rent to your advantage.

The young and silly in the boom areas are making in a day what you make in a week and drop alot of money on hotrods, bikes, sleds, boats, you name it. They take brand new vehicles and spend thousands more on lifts, lowers, lights, wheels, programmers. Would be a dream place to sell the stuff.

 

[darkk]

No money and no experience, practice on your own stuff. You sound like you don't know much about fabrication, mechanics or Hot Rods etc. (no offence intended) My advise is take a fabrication class and also a mechanics class. If you really want to try this, get a cheap rent so you're not out much money if you don't succeed.It's a really poor economy right now and most Hot Rodders that have others do thier work are very very picky and usually have well known Rodders do thier cars..

 

[bams50]

As a longtime cr builder, what jumps out at me is your comment about leaving a job over mold. If you think mold is something- no matter how bad- you ain't seen nothing yet. Car shops are filled with paints and solvents and cleaners- and moldy old cars.

I suggest trying to get a job doing anthing in an existing shop to see what it's really like BEFORE you make any decision to rent or build. They're never like the perfect ones you see on TV, they're dirty and stinky and dangerous and the work is hard and fithy. And they're Heaven on earth to some of us But they're not for everybody.

 

[Ridge Runner]

You need to make a plan and price the materials. Off the top of my head, 5,000 seems optimistic.

Pole barns are the cheapest, and you can get the poles up, get the roof on, and worry about siding and concrete later. I worked off of gravel for a while, until I could afford the walls an floor. Also, you can always add a set of poles to the back and go another 8 feet whenever you want to.

I agree. I'll be using some salvaged materials, but I think $7k is more realistic. However, $5000 is theoretically possible. A concrete pad is mandatory so I can roll around a welder, engine hoist, etc.

Why do you plan on leaving? Where do you want to eventually work on Hotrods? What did you go to school for? Why not leave now and build something where you move to or when you return?

I don't see what that's got to do with it, but:
1) The economy *****, there's little to no chance of starting a business here, and most of the people here are too two-faced, hypocritical, and narrow-minded for me to tolerate.
2) Still up in the air. Middle Tennessee, Texas, Arizona, Utah, possibly Georgia, Alabama, or Florida.
3) Business management, automotive repair, performance engine building, and fabrication.
4) Because I would be screwing over my boss who just hired me a few months ago and has outlaid a lot of capital getting me set up to start a new facet of his business. As much as I hate this area, it's also a favorable situation for saving money.

No money and no experience, practice on your own stuff. You sound like you don't know much about fabrication, mechanics or Hot Rods etc. (no offence intended) My advise is take a fabrication class and also a mechanics class.

I don't see how you came to that conclusion, but ok... I spent a year at Wyotech, and while I still know a lot, it's been six years since I got to do any welding, fabrication, etc. My post-education experience consists of working on cars at CarMax for a year and, while helpful, isn't very pertinent to building hot rods. So, while I do know what I'm doing, I'd be a fool to try and start up a shop without practicing and getting good at things again. For example, I was I-CAR certified for welding until this past December, but haven't gotten to run a bead since school.

 

[Ridge Runner]

As a longtime cr builder, what jumps out at me is your comment about leaving a job over mold. If you think mold is something- no matter how bad- you ain't seen nothing yet. Car shops are filled with paints and solvents and cleaners- and moldy old cars.

I suggest trying to get a job doing anthing in an existing shop to see what it's really like BEFORE you make any decision to rent or build. They're never like the perfect ones you see on TV, they're dirty and stinky and dangerous and the work is hard and fithy. And they're Heaven on earth to some of us But they're not for everybody.

Thanks, that's a good point to consider. Chemicals don't really bother me, nor does periodically working in a moldy environment. However, working every day in a building with severe mold is making me sick, so I guess it just depends. I was trying to get on with a shop before I fell into this job back in February, but I'm here now, so I'm just rolling with it. Like I said above, to leave would screw over my boss, so I plan on being here at least a year. Long enough to make him some money and save some up for myself as well.

 

[Sureshot]

Sounds like you have it figured. Hopefully the earnings from the shop help build it. With the loan repayments and money going into building the shop and general living expense I don't see a lot of room for saving. Good luck with the new job.

 

[BBQ&Love]

2) Still up in the air. Middle Tennessee, Texas, Arizona, Utah, possibly Georgia, Alabama, or Florida.

Just a heads up. "The economy *****, there's little to no chance of starting a business here, and most of the people here are too two-faced, hypocritical, and narrow-minded for me to tolerate." describes what you will find Texas too. Plus it's humid in Texas so there's a lot of moldy shops here. Probably not a place you want to move to so I would scratch it off your list.

 

[signcrafter]

This question can't really be answered with the info you have now. My suggestion would be to call a couple concrete guys and get a price for just the concret pad for a 24x36 or whatever size you come up with. This will be one of the most expensive parts of the build. Even if you do it yourself you are looking at around 11 yards of concrete at roughly 100 dollars a yard around me.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Sounds like you have it figured. Hopefully the earnings from the shop help build it. With the loan repayments and money going into building the shop and general living expense I don't see a lot of room for saving. Good luck with the new job.

Thanks. I agree that either way I go, the shop will pretty much negate my savings. That's ok, though. Savings are meant to be used and at least this way I'll be able to do something I enjoy and maybe even start a business out of it.

Maybe this thread would have made more sense if I had mentioned that I've had a '56 Chevy truck rusting away out back for 10 years now for the sole reason that I haven't had a place to work on it. Last year I also got a '70 Blazer that's in considerably better shape, but still not drivable. That's why I'm so dead set on having a place to work instead of saving my money for when I move away, which is what I would do if I didn't have these projects.

Just a heads up. "The economy *****, there's little to no chance of starting a business here, and most of the people here are too two-faced, hypocritical, and narrow-minded for me to tolerate." describes Texas too. Plus it's humid in Texas so there's a lot of moldy shops here. Probably not a place you want to move to so I would scratch it off your list.

Thanks, I've actually heard that from a lot of people. It seems like Texas is hit or miss on whether you like the people. Most of my friends in the navy were from Texas, but so was the biggest tool I've ever met.

 

[Ridge Runner]

This question can't really be answered with the info you have now. My suggestion would be to call a couple concrete guys and get a price for just the concret pad for a 24x36 or whatever size you come up with. This will be one of the most expensive parts of the build. Even if you do it yourself you are looking at around 11 yards of concrete at roughly 100 dollars a yard around me.

$90/yard for 4500 PSI and fiber mixed in. I want to say it was $80 or $86 a yard for regular 3000 PSI concrete. Assuming a 4" depth, a 24x36 ft pad with 4500 PSI concrete would run just shy of $1000. 25x40' adds up to $1112. Of course, that's not accounting for the footing and if I have someone finish the pad instead of doing it myself, multiply that amount by two. Friend I grew up with's family owns the local concrete plant. He was the first one I talked to.

 

[930dreamer]

I've leased half of a 40x60 shop about six years and split it with a good friend, plus I have access to the other half. Owning is great but this is a great set up for me.

 

[BD1]

Just wondering what does your boss do ? Sounds like he is taking care of you.
Did you consider asking him about going into hot rods ? Or some shop space
for your stuff ? Maybe work out a deal that would work out for both of you.
You best have some big bucks saved, being in business could drain funds fast.

 

[Ridge Runner]

He owns a junkyard. I went to him back in February looking for a job since I knew he was working on a '69 Camaro and periodically builds things, but he ended up hiring me to create an inventory system, catalog everything, and get it listed on car-part.com. He's been there 30 years but up until now has just sent someone out back to see if they have the part. I spoke to him about some space, but he doesn't have any extra room or know anybody renting a shop right now.

 

[Need4racin]

Take advantage of your low cost of living, make some things to sell online world wide. A world wide market, and dirt cheap cost of living is an ideal business setting. Get into consumables- food, automotive fluids, clothing, etc.

 

[BD1]

That sounds like a gold mine. I know a guy that started out working in a junk yard. He never bought gas . He got enough parts to make many vehicles and resold with salvage titles.
Does he got any kids ? you could become his adopted son ! Stay there and hit him up again. In the mean time so what goodies you can get and start rebuilding cars and resell .

 

[geologist]

Save your money, hone your skills, then branch out. It's all about being in the right place at the right time.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Guys, I really appreciate all the advice, but all I'm looking for is whether, in my shoes, you would rent or build a garage?

 

[930dreamer]

Guys, I really appreciate all the advice, but all I'm looking for is whether, in my shoes, you would rent or build a garage?

Rent= the least cash out of pocket.

 

[LutzTD]

with all your unknowns and since you have a depressed local economy, why would you go out of pocket, let someone else take the hit on the building and rent. then you have more options later and arent stuck with a building in an area with a depressed economy, just make sure you get all you want in writing, tell them exatly what plans you have or modifications you want to make such as a lift etc. they may decide when you move out things have to stay or you need to buy a new slab to fix changes you made.

 

[BD1]

If you build by parents it should add value to the property , good. But it will
reflect property taxes. How bad are real estate taxes by you ? You may get a estimate from your tax guy. How do your parents feel about build on their lot? I feel building will help you both. Is zoning going to be a issue ? what
about neighbors ? Are they gonna cause problems ? Running power, water, gas, gonna be a concern ? Is there enough electric in panel to tap from ?
New electrical service ? How close to house will it be ? Will noise affect parents ? Lots of concerns.

 

[LutzTD]

If you build by parents it should add value to the property , good. But it will
reflect property taxes. How bad are real estate taxes by you ? You may get a estimate from your tax guy. How do your parents feel about build on their lot? I feel building will help you both. Is zoning going to be a issue ? what
about neighbors ? Are they gonna cause problems ? Running power, water, gas, gonna be a concern ? Is there enough electric in panel to tap from ?
New electrical service ? How close to house will it be ? Will noise affect parents ? Lots of concerns.

I built my first shop behind my parents house, when my dad died my mother did not want to live in that house alone and moved in with my brother. The house is not something my wife or I want to buy so I am moving all of my stuff out so she can sell it.

 

[ed_v]

Save your money, hone your skills, then branch out. It's all about being in the right place at the right time.

Guys, I really appreciate all the advice, but all I'm looking for is whether, in my shoes, you would rent or build a garage?

I think geologist is right on this one. Starting a Hot Rod shop sounds great but always remember no matter how good you are, there's someone out there who can do it better and has done it much longer. I'm guessing you have already worked in a shop? To be sucessful you'll need to be slilled at everything from welding, metal shaping, mechanical work, wiring, and then there's the business side of things to take care of.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but unless you have really lived for this stuff and have the experience, you'll be in for a rough ride. There are so many shops out there that are really good at what they do.

Being a TRADITIONAL hot rod junky myself, Id love to see some projects you have worked on. I'm working on a '51 Pontiac right now that will be a true '50's custom. Not on part on the car (other than tires, belts, hoses, wiring, and fasteners) will have been made after 1960.

Best of luck on whatever path you choose.

Ed