Renting a trencher for waterline?

[BellyUpFish]

We are rapidly approaching the stage of our build where I need to have waterline installed to the house and I'm getting a little tired of playing chase with the local trenching guru. "I can't come today.. I'll see you at 3:30... Oops I forgot.. Maybe tomorrow? What about Tuesday? No, I didn't have time. Maybe my helper can run by today and measure.."

I could have rented a trencher and been done by now and saved $$, I *think.*

Here comes my question - I've never run a trencher.. Seems like a fairly simple machine. Keep it going straight and let her eat. LOL

Any of you trencher rental types have any comment on how hard running a trencher is? Should I just run out and rent it for a week and call it good?

Local 18" trencher is $500 for the week.
Local trenching guru wants $1-1.25/foot at a 1,000ft run.

Seems like trenching an 18" deep hole should be easily accomplished?

 

[stokefire7]

Not to much to it really. The house ever had a septic system ?

 

[BellyUpFish]

Not to much to it really. The house ever had a septic system ?

Hasn't yet. It will before it's finished.

 

[ishiboo]

Must be nice being able to put a waterline 18" down

Yes, rent the trencher. Or better yet, if you can rent a skid loader with a trencher for a single day for less than $500, do that... it will go even easier.

 

[readhead]

Rent for a week? How much trenching do you need to do?

 

[usa#1]

Get a tracked unit. Also try to get a newer looking unit from the rental place. 18" deep could go quickly depending on your ground conditions. Don't forget to give the utility marking folks a call.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Rent for a week? How much trenching do you need to do?

Roughly 1,000' for 1 run, 250' for another..

 

[djjsr]

I rented a DitchWitch trencher once. Very easy to use. You certainly do not need it for a week. Rent it for 2 days and you'll have plenty of time. Runs at about the speed of a tiller.

 

[BADSIX]

if its smooth ground and dirt only, no rocky areas or large tree roots, you should be able to do that in one day. it easy to run just get it pointed it the direction you want to go put it in gear and keep it going were you want it to.
Jay D.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Yeh, it's only $170/day. Figured a day or two if I hit something hard would get it.

Much better than $1 to 1.25/foot.

 

[Richard Cranium]

I agree, get a self propelled unit, and don't for get to call the locator service.

 

[BD1]

When you doing the septic ?? Maybe check with septic contractor and have him do it ? Couldn't hurt .

 

[D45]

That's crazy it costs that much for a trencher

Mine was rented for $125 for the day and worked GREAT

I ran a sump pump discharge line to the street

I made about 5-6 passes, slowly going deeper every-time

I was a back drag or back pull trencher, but it works very well

 

[D45]

You cant rent one "by the day"?

 

[BellyUpFish]

When you doing the septic ?? Maybe check with septic contractor and have him do it ? Couldn't hurt .

That's a good question, need to get with my contractor and see..

You cant rent one "by the day"?

Yeh, it's $118 for an 18" and $170 for a 36", I think I'm going to get the 36" since my planned depth is 18" and I don't wanna be trying to max out the 18" for the entire run.

 

[LB-1911]

$170 for a 36", I think I'm going to get the 36" since my planned depth is 18" and I don't wanna be trying to max out the 18" for the entire run.

on the 36"

As mentioned previously - go w/a tracked version not wheels - you'll be much happier at the end of the project.

Stay hydrated & save the adult beverages till the end of the day.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Tracked unit is what the local HD has. Now, just need a couple days off of work.

Next step, laying 1000' of 20' lengths of 1.5" PVC..

 

[ADSR]

Lay out your path with a spray bomb first. This way, when the machine comes, you can just have at it.

 

[LB-1911]

Tracked unit is what the local HD has. Now, just need a couple days off of work.

Next step, laying 1000' of 20' lengths of 1.5" PVC..

Why pvc @ 20ft sections instead of High Density Polyethylene in 500 ft ?

At 1000 ft I would have suspected 2 inch. Do you know the pressure at the street?

 

[machsnell]

Rent. one day. If your sirt is rocky or heavy with clay or roots get a ride on or a heavy tracked or wheeled machine. The one above with two wheels or tracks that is like a lawn mower doesnt have enough *** to get through tougher soil.

1250 feet I would want a medium sized trencher to get done quickly

I hate the little walk behind types they have a hard time in our soil

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[D45]

55' took me under 2 hours

It was very simple and easy to use

 

[BellyUpFish]

Why pvc @ 20ft sections instead of High Density Polyethylene in 500 ft ?

At 1000 ft I would have suspected 2 inch. Do you know the pressure at the street?

I wanted to do HDPE pipe but apparently "no one around here does that.." I found a local supplier for it and he said they recommended going PVC instead of HDPE because "in about 15 years, I'll be repairing it a couple times a year?"

I don't know the pressure at the street and the "guy who knows" says I should have plenty of pressure to make 1.5" be plenty. We'll see when they get the meter installed, I'm going to check the pressure before any pipe is purchased.

 

[gnpenning]

Regional difference's in how things are done. 18" depth would be great.

Depending on what your pressure is at the street will make a huge difference as to what you will still have 1000' later. Going with a 1/2" larger in size over a 1000' will add to the cost, but in the end if you don't have good water pressure the extra cost will be cheap. I would go with 2". I have some 1000' runs and there is a huge difference in pressure with the close hydrants and the ones a long ways away and that's with 2".


What kind of repairs will you be doing in about 15 years??? Are they something that you may have the same issue with?? Extra joints mean potential for extra leaks. HDPE pipe is much more durable than PVC.

Do it yourself and put the money saved into putting the pipe in you want. As mentioned trenchers are easy if you have the right soil and much faster than a excavator or hoe.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Regional difference's in how things are done. 18" depth would be great..

18" is what I'm planning. That's the code for water around here.

Going with a 1/2" larger in size over a 1000' will add to the cost, but in the end if you don't have good water pressure the extra cost will be cheap. I would go with 2". I have some 1000' runs and there is a huge difference in pressure with the close hydrants and the ones a long ways away and that's with 2".

Definitely want good pressure. I've been researching booster pumps incase the pressure is low at the street. This is in the boonies of Alabama, so we may be looking at low pressure to start.

What kind of repairs will you be doing in about 15 years??? Are they something that you may have the same issue with?? Extra joints mean potential for extra leaks. HDPE pipe is much more durable than PVC.

I asked via e-mail what issues were experienced and haven't heard back. The 50 give or take joints are exactly why I wanted to go HDPE, I guess we'll see what he says..

 

[Catadj78]

18" is what I'm planning. That's the code for water around here.



Definitely want good pressure. I've been researching booster pumps incase the pressure is low at the street. This is in the boonies of Alabama, so we may be looking at low pressure to start.



I asked via e-mail what issues were experienced and haven't heard back. The 50 give or take joints are exactly why I wanted to go HDPE, I guess we'll see what he says..

Boonies of Alabama and you have code to worry about? No code issues or inspectors to worry about it where I am in Alabama and I am in the city

 

[BellyUpFish]

Boonies of Alabama and you have code to worry about? No code issues or inspectors to worry about it where I am in Alabama and I am in the city

I worded that poorly.

I personally don't have code to worry about, but the city folks here have code, which is 18", apparently. I guess it may not even be code, everyone keeps saying "code is 18 inches" but I haven't dug into the actual code to find out if that's actually written somewhere. I sorta took the plumber and water department at their word and figured if it's good enough for the guys in the city to run it at 18" and not worry with busted pipes, it should be plenty good for the guy outside the city.

Edit - Looks like the average frost depth in Alabama, statewide, is 5" and I keep seeing that most suggestions are for pipes to be at 12" past the frost depth. That'd 17" which may be why everyone is saying 18" and calling it "code?"

One thing I have learned in this whole house building episode, is that there are really only a small handful of people in a department who have "the answers."

Take our local water department for example.

Lady who "handles all the new installations" suggested that all "pressure at the street questions be routed to Mr. Xyz because "he's been doing this job for 40+ years, he knows the pressures at the meters around here.."

So, I call Mr. Xyz and ask him about pressures, the need for 1.5" pipe and concerns about needing a booster pump.

"That line is a 6" line. I wouldn't use 3/4" pipe on 1,000' run." Followed by "Well, that might be a 3" line, now that I think about it. I'm not really sure. Once you get your meter put in, call me and we'll measure your pressure..."

Sooo.. Here I sit, waiting on the "guy who installs all the meters" to get around to finding time to a.) give me a solid estimate for trenching since he's the local trenching guru and b.) find time to install my meter.

Place is nutty.

Power wants you to pay for everything and won't let you do any of the work. Unless you're going above ground 300' or less - then they'll bring it to you for free. After that, it's $5 a foot. Underground is $6/foot.

Natural gas doesn't care if you go 1' to "as far off the road as you wanna go!" and they'll run it all - pipe, trench, etc for $50.

Water department is "you can do it, we can do it, however you want to do it, just let us know" and you have to play chase with them to get someone to show up.

 

[pcmeiners]

Just ran a pipe size calculator for a 1000 ft, you need min 2.2, otherwise you will lose pressure/volume. Best find another "guy how knows", or simply google... water pressure lose calculator. If you have help I would think about putting the pipe in as you trench, beats cave-ins , rain washing the trench walls down.

 

[NC4AB]

Some comments (been there done that but no Tee shirt)

If you have a trailer that can transport it I would recommend renting a ride on trencher, saves on wrestling with the self propelled models. 1200 ft should be no issue to do in a half day unless you hit rock. I am lucky that I have a Sunbelt and a Hertz Equipment rental and a local owned equipment rental place fairly close by and if you rent on a Friday after lunch they only charge for one day if you have it back first thing on Monday.

I trenched in a little over 500 feet, laid the pipe and had it covered back over in about half a day and I ran into a lot of rock. The ride one trencher was a Vermeer that could do 48" deep, the rocks slowed it down a little but not much.

Not sure if I would use PVC, seems like a lot of opportunity for leaks at the joints. Around here pretty much everyone uses high density polyethylene (aka black water pipe). I ran 1" for mine, the local plumbing supply house had 300 feet rolls of the 160 psig rated pipe sitting on the shelf, the 160 ucost a little extra but I only wanted to do it once.

Andy

 

[Farmall450]

The skidsteer ones are pretty sweet.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Just ran a pipe size calculator for a 1000 ft, you need min 2.2, otherwise you will lose pressure/volume. Best find another "guy how knows", or simply google... water pressure lose calculator. If you have help I would think about putting the pipe in as you trench, beats cave-ins , rain washing the trench walls down.

That's why I'm here..

Iyou rent on a Friday after lunch they only charge for one day if you have it back first thing on Monday.

I trenched in a little over 500 feet, laid the pipe and had it covered back over in about half a day and I ran into a lot of rock. The ride one trencher was a Vermeer that could do 48" deep, the rocks slowed it down a little but not much.

Not sure if I would use PVC, seems like a lot of opportunity for leaks at the joints. Around here pretty much everyone uses high density polyethylene (aka black water pipe). I ran 1" for mine, the local plumbing supply house had 300 feet rolls of the 160 psig rated pipe sitting on the shelf, the 160 ucost a little extra but I only wanted to do it once.

Andy

I was just talking to a friend about the Sunbelt rental "Pick it up on Friday, keep it all weekend thing.." They're closed today, going to call them Monday.

I really don't want to use PVC for the exact leak question. Everyone I ask "No one uses that anymore!!" like its ancient or something, but this typically comes somewhere in the discussion after them asking me what it is. Really weird.

Me: "You guys wouldn't carry 1.5 or 2" black HDPE water pipe on a spool would you?"

Them: "Spool? You want PVC?"

Me: "No sir, looking for 500' spool of HDPE pipe, I'm running 1,000' of pipe..."

Them: "No one uses that anymore.. What is it?"

I don't live in a particularly small city, it's 11th largest in the state. You'd think someone would know something. The only guy I've found who can help, and he doesn't recommend it for "no particular reason other than 1 time they had to fix some pipe and he's always dealt with PVC", is in the next largest city over.

You'd think building a house 1,000' off the road is like requesting a trip to the moon for lunch.

 

[432bullet]

Have you considered a back hoe with a narrow bucket ? you will have a back hoe in to set your septic system any way. One thing we did when we laid the water and electrical lines was to put two pipes in the trench at time of construction, The cost of the extra pipe is nothing compared to fixing a leaking pipe at a later date. Just a thought.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Have you considered a back hoe with a narrow bucket ? you will have a back hoe in to set your septic system any way. One thing we did when we laid the water and electrical lines was to put two pipes in the trench at time of construction, The cost of the extra pipe is nothing compared to fixing a leaking pipe at a later date. Just a thought.

Backhoe guy quoted me $200 to go less than 50'...

 

[kbs2244]

Two suggestions based on personal experience.
Get a sit on trencher.
They are much easier to keep on a painted straight line
Then go with at least 2, maybe 2.5, pipe.
At that distance you will have a frictional pressure drop.
So, bigger is better.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Two suggestions based on personal experience.
Get a sit on trencher.
They are much easier to keep on a painted straight line
Then go with at least 2, maybe 2.5, pipe.
At that distance you will have a frictional pressure drop.
So, bigger is better.

So, should I look at a booster pump setup?

 

[Catadj78]

I haven't measured but my water line coming into the house looks to be less than 12" deep.

I haven't ran my water line into my shop but i plan on using the 18" trencher because that's all I can rent locally. If I can get it 12" I am sure it will be fine as I will have cut offs leaving the house and entering the shop

 

[BellyUpFish]

I haven't measured but my water line coming into the house looks to be less than 12" deep.

I haven't ran my water line into my shop but i plan on using the 18" trencher because that's all I can rent locally. If I can get it 12" I am sure it will be fine as I will have cut offs leaving the house and entering the shop

I can get an 18" or 36", I'll likely go 36".

I don't want cut offs between my house and meter, that'd make winter time miserable.

I don't mind cutting the water off to the shop in the winter.

Where in Alabama are you? I'm in Florence.

 

[Catadj78]

I can get an 18" or 36", I'll likely go 36".

I don't want cut offs between my house and meter, that'd make winter time miserable.

I don't mind cutting the water off to the shop in the winter.

Where in Alabama are you? I'm in Florence.

About 30 mins south of Tuscaloosa.

Where you are and dealing with house water I would definitely do it the way you are. I work out of town for months at a time and plan on shutting power and water off to the shop while I'm gone

 

[BellyUpFish]

Yeh, it's a good idea. I'm definitely going to do my shop that way.

I'd like to sort out a way to use air pressure to blow it out. Probably put a shutoff under the house followed by a T with an air valve, and just blow it out the sink in the winter.

 

[My Old Tools]

I put in 1/2 mile of 2" water line on my place a few years ago. I rented the biggest, baddest 4 wheel drive ride on trencher they had. It was 4th of July weekend and the ground was hard. The first thing I did was jerk the meter out of the main water line. The water company fixed that although I don't think the guys were amused working the holiday weekend. After that it was easy. When I hit the clay outcropping it was jerking basketball sized clods out of the ground in low gear.

 

[BD1]

Natural gas ?? The plot thickens ! See if they'll come out to review the gas line installation and ask them '' IF '' they could do the trenching on the side while they were there . That's how lucky I was, they were putting in the gas main and I happened to get home early one day. Talk to the guys and they said sure, I asked hows $200.00 sound ?? GREAT ! They dug the trench and helped set the pipe, 300' worth. Plus they went down 5' to 6' depending on grade. Best money spent !!!