Replace old panel in garage

[traksion]

I have this old panel in my garage (picture attached), there is only a 20 amp line running to this from the main panel in my house. I'm going to replace the old wiring in my garage and I figured I should replace this little panel too.

Can I just get any small panel from Home Depot and replace it? Would having say 2 circuit breakers on a single 20amp line even make any sense (one for lights, the other for an outlet)? Or would it make better sense to just replace it with a junction box considering there is only the single 20 amp line.

My power needs in the garage are lights, miter saw, small table saw, etc. I'm not pulling a lot of power and only using a single tool at a time. Ideally I'd like to have more power in the garage, but that would require an upgrade to the main panel, and that is just not in the cards right now.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[bczygan]

Detached garage?

Edit: I see that it is.

Whenever I plan improvements, I like to look way down the road and plan for future changes.

In this case, a small panel will cost almost as much as a larger one, so I would put in the most cost effective one with plenty of room for future growth. I would plan not just for my own future uses, but uses of future owners.

How big is the garage? Is there space on the lot for additions or a larger structure? What are the house, lot and surrounding properties like?

What is the feed to the garage?

Bill

 

[sberry]

If it's fused ahead of it doesn't need any panel. It does need a means of disconnect. Could be a switch.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Shouldn't be a problem... but like Bill said, plan ahead for future use. Also remember NOT to overload the wiring from the source - if you replace your 4 fuse panel with, say, a panel for 12 breakers, having space for those 12 breakers does NOT mean it's safe to put 12 breakers in the panel unless the wiring is upgraded.

 

[mm08822]

First think about your future needs and plan all needed branch circuits accordingly.

Is the current fuse box location where a new panel/feeder would go?

Wire needed branch circuits in the garage as if you couldn’t get back into the walls.

Make all home runs back to the panel (or j-box) location.
Since you only have 120vac out to the garage, you could still prepare for 240vac ckts and run them and just blank off the outlet boxes until some future date.

You could go with a jbox and splice all “branch ckts” into it onto the single 20A ckt running out to the garage. I doubt your demand on this ckt will increase just b/c you add a bunch recepts and do all the same things tomorrow as today. If you run many b/c’s, then just put in a panel.

Make sure your existing ocp for the “feeder” is at 20A or go down to 15A if questionable. Multiple un-used recepts hanging off of 1 ckt does not create an issue on a temporary basis.

Later you could upgrade the feed to 120/240vac (sized according to load calcs) and then install a panel if not done previously.

Attached garage?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have this old panel in my garage (picture attached), there is only a 20 amp line running to this from the main panel in my house. I'm going to replace the old wiring in my garage and I figured I should replace this little panel too.

Can I just get any small panel from Home Depot and replace it? Would having say 2 circuit breakers on a single 20amp line even make any sense (one for lights, the other for an outlet)? Or would it make better sense to just replace it with a junction box considering there is only the single 20 amp line.

My power needs in the garage are lights, miter saw, small table saw, etc. I'm not pulling a lot of power and only using a single tool at a time. Ideally I'd like to have more power in the garage, but that would require an upgrade to the main panel, and that is just not in the cards right now.

Thanks in advance for the help.

why does the main panel need to be upgraded for a garage feeder upgrade?

is the garage attached or detached?

Detached garage?

Edit: I see that it is.

Whenever I plan improvements, I like to look way down the road and plan for future changes.

In this case, a small panel will cost almost as much as a larger one, so I would put in the most cost effective one with plenty of room for future growth. I would plan not just for my own future uses, but uses of future owners.

How big is the garage? Is there space on the lot for additions or a larger structure? What are the house, lot and surrounding properties like?

What is the feed to the garage?

Bill

where does he say detached?

 

[bczygan]

why does the main panel need to be upgraded for a garage feeder upgrade?

is the garage attached or detached?



where does he say detached?

His other thread has a photo.

Bill

 

[wyliesdiesels]

His other thread has a photo.

Bill

Ok where is his other thread?

 

[tfi racing]

Nothing short of a 200A three phase 80 circuit panel will be enough. After all, who knows what one may do in the distant future...

 

[bczygan]

Ok where is his other thread?

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401893

 

[wyliesdiesels]

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401893

I see nothing in that thread which answers my questions...

 

[traksion]

Hi all,

Sorry for the late response, been one of those weeks!

Yes its a detached garage. The reason I said the main panel would need to be upgraded in order to get more power to the garage is because the main panel is out of space (no more breakers can fit). So for now I'll just make due with what I have (the single 20amp line).

Yes, this circuit is fused ahead (at the main panel). In which case I can see that a simple junction box, with a switch ahead of it (ie a disconnect at the entrance) may make the most sense for my needs right now.

I saw some small panels at the Big Box store for less than $20. I realize that adding a panel with multiple breakers doesn't mean its then safe to overload the 20amp circuit that is feeding it. But does a little panel like this provide any additional safety vs simple switch (disconnect) followed by a junction box to feed the lights and the receptacles.

Thanks again,
Matt

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Post a picture of your main panel.

Is it possible to combine some circuits to free up 2 spaces?

What brand of panel do you have?

 

[mike93lx]

Hi all,

Sorry for the late response, been one of those weeks!

Yes its a detached garage. The reason I said the main panel would need to be upgraded in order to get more power to the garage is because the main panel is out of space (no more breakers can fit). So for now I'll just make due with what I have (the single 20amp line).

Yes, this circuit is fused ahead (at the main panel). In which case I can see that a simple junction box, with a switch ahead of it (ie a disconnect at the entrance) may make the most sense for my needs right now.

I saw some small panels at the Big Box store for less than $20. I realize that adding a panel with multiple breakers doesn't mean its then safe to overload the 20amp circuit that is feeding it. But does a little panel like this provide any additional safety vs simple switch (disconnect) followed by a junction box to feed the lights and the receptacles.

Thanks again,
Matt

besides using tandems, if you panel permits it, you could easily install a sub next to the main and move some stuff over. a 125a main lug panel is $35 at the depot and the connectors and wire should run <$20.

the $20 panel you saw is probably main lug, which won't work for you unless you add a switch ahead of it. you want to grab a main breaker panel so you have a disconnect.

it will not be safer than a junction box, but if you ever upgrade the feeder, it will be easier to do so at that time if a panel is installed.

 

[traksion]

Attached is a picture of my main panel. As you can see its pretty stacked up already.

By looking at this do you think its possible to have small sub panel next to it? Would be great to have more power and separate circuits in the garage.

 

[Bert_]

What A-hole installed that?

Is that outside, possibly a meter/main all in one sort of deal? I'd be curious to see it without a cover. Many have sub feed lugs on the bottom.

 

[mm08822]

Loving the panel legend. Easier to shut the main off and work than jerk around figuring old from new. I can just about hear a new owner moaning now.

 

[mike93lx]

Attached is a picture of my main panel. As you can see its pretty stacked up already.

By looking at this do you think its possible to have small sub panel next to it? Would be great to have more power and separate circuits in the garage.

Since we can't see next to it, how could we advise if a panel can be installed there? Step back a bit and take another picture

 

[yeldogt]

What is feeding the garage panel ?

Those little panels were very common in garages around me -- typically the drop was above ground to the garage. Yard lights and interior garage lights separate from the outlet loads. This way any overload would blow the outside fuse tot he outlets and keep the lights on. The drop had three legs so you could switch some lights from inside.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Attached is a picture of my main panel. As you can see its pretty stacked up already.

By looking at this do you think its possible to have small sub panel next to it? Would be great to have more power and separate circuits in the garage.

Wow looks like almost all twins and quads. What a mess...

Can you combine any circuits?

 

[Norcal]

Looks like a Murray all in one, is it surface or semi-flush.? That Murray is a very low cost panel.