Replacement Screws?

[Kels]

I will be taking the metal siding off my pole barn and then putting it back on after installing tyvek.

The screws I have in it are #9 1" screws. What size/length do I replace them with?

Also any tips on where to buy them for a good price and good quality?

 

[LB-1911]

I will be taking the metal siding off my pole barn and then putting it back on after installing tyvek.

The screws I have in it are #9 1" screws. What size/length do I replace them with?

Also any tips on where to buy them for a good price and good quality?

Kitsap Lumber

http://www.kitsaplumber.com/

 

[Highbeam]

I ordered mine from Mclendons hardware. They are not terribly expensive and come color matched with the most modern neoprene gaskets. You are screwing into a 1.5" thick board so 1.25" is good too for a little more bite. They are pole barn screws and not some sort of regular screw. Special thread, shank, head, and gasket.

You will also want to buy a nut driver bit for your cordless drill. If you don't have one yet, an 18 volt dewalt, clutched cordless drill is great for this. Don't overtighten the screw and ****** the gasket.

 

[nehog]

...

You will also want to buy a nut driver bit for your cordless drill. If you don't have one yet, an 18 volt dewalt, clutched cordless drill is great for this. Don't overtighten the screw and ****** the gasket.

Make that a magnetic driver! You'll be glad you did. And Highbeam is right: be careful not to overtorque them as the rubber seal will screw up and lead to leaks.

 

[rburke65]

I'll second the DeWalt and again, you just want to compress the rubber washer and not squeeze it to death.

 

[larry_g]

Make that a magnetic driver! You'll be glad you did. And Highbeam is right: be careful not to overtorque them as the rubber seal will screw up and lead to leaks.

RE: the magnetic driver, get a few, they do wear out. You may also find that the magnet is not allowing the screwhead to fully seat in the driver. You can tap the magnet deeper into the shank so the screw head will fully engage.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Highbeam]

Hah! I assumed that they were all magnetic but yes, be sure. I put up thousands of screws and never wore one out but I bought a three pack anyway for like 3$.

Another thing I learned about screwing down metal siding. The sheet metal will grab the threads of the screw and climb up to the gasket and even compress the gasket, all this without being pressed against the wooden girt behind it. You have to be sure that the metal is tight against the wood and doesn't crawl up the screw or you will get reverse dimples around the screw where the metal isn't laying flat.

 

[Kels]

is going from a shank size #9 to a #10 a big enough size change, We think it will work but, that's a lot of screws to find out it didn't work....

I find I over think about everything...

 

[Highbeam]

Are the old screw holes stripped? Since you are putting tyvek in you won't be able to see the old holes anyway and there is a chance that you will not be reusing the old holes. I would bet that you won't be using the old holes most of the time.

 

[Kels]

The old holes are fine.
I don't think anything was wrong with the screws at all.

We are just pulling the siding off so we can put up house wrap, and insulate with the Fiberglass insulation I have already.

I didn't think we should use the same screws in case there was an issue with any of the rubber or what not.

Though I keep stumbling into people talking about wish they used spray foam, it just cost so much and I have about all the fiberglass insulation I need just sitting there going to waste.

 

[Highbeam]

Oh no, do not reuse the old screws. The rubbers age and I usually find them overtightened and buggered up.

 

[Kels]

Yeah, Better safe then sorry! So I plan on going to #10....from the #9

Also need to track down some Z channel or rat guard to install....WILL NOT HAVE MICE MAKING HOMES AGAIN IF I CAN HELP IT!

My cat's are kicking ***.... sadly one of them is slowly working up to killing coyotes (we joke) It killed a rabbit half it's size and was dragging it into the shop...maybe planning a feast we took the rabbit away....20 min later kitty goes running by with a squirrel!

 

[jameswood]

Yeah, Better safe then sorry! So I plan on going to #10....from the #9

Also need to track down some Z channel or rat guard to install....WILL NOT HAVE MICE MAKING HOMES AGAIN IF I CAN HELP IT!

My cat's are kicking ***.... sadly one of them is slowly working up to killing coyotes (we joke) It killed a rabbit half it's size and was dragging it into the shop...maybe planning a feast we took the rabbit away....20 min later kitty goes running by with a squirrel!

I like to urethane down a piece of 3/4 x 2 angle on the inside to the floor behind the wall so it can slide up/down with floor movement in addition to having the one outside. Careful not to nail or screw thru it when attaching inside wall. Keeps rodents from gaining access to wall from inside as well.

 

[Kels]

I like to urethane down a piece of 3/4 x 2 angle on the inside to the floor behind the wall so it can slide up/down with floor movement in addition to having the one outside. Careful not to nail or screw thru it when attaching inside wall. Keeps rodents from gaining access to wall from inside as well.

Do you have a picture of this, trying to picture what you mean...

 

[joe_padavano]

We are just pulling the siding off so we can put up house wrap, and insulate with the Fiberglass insulation I have already.

Though I keep stumbling into people talking about wish they used spray foam, it just cost so much and I have about all the fiberglass insulation I need just sitting there going to waste.

I just finished doing spray foam on my 28x32 metal building. I'd do it again in a heartbeat before taking all the siding off. I bought kits on ebay - Touch N Seal brand. Took four 1000 bd-ft kits to spray the walls and ceiling. That was $3K delivered.

If you can access the building from the inside, why not use less foam to just seal (instead of Tyvek) then put up your insulation from the inside?

 

[jameswood]

Do you have a picture of this, trying to picture what you mean...

I make mine using my siding brake 3/4 x whatever (usually 2-3") but std roof edging also works.
Cut to length (assuming between vertical posts), lay bead of urethane on bottom of 3/4 part and stick to floor. The wall presses against it holding it there, and once urethane is dry it wont move.

As floor floats up or down so does this metal so ya never have a floor gap.

The 3/4 part can stick in or stick out, kinda depends what I plan to use for wall material and base.

 

[Kels]

I just finished doing spray foam on my 28x32 metal building. I'd do it again in a heartbeat before taking all the siding off. I bought kits on ebay - Touch N Seal brand. Took four 1000 bd-ft kits to spray the walls and ceiling. That was $3K delivered.

If you can access the building from the inside, why not use less foam to just seal (instead of Tyvek) then put up your insulation from the inside?

I need to use 2 inches where I am to get past the Dew Point in the wall. Spray foam was going to run ~3K

Doing it with materials I have and labor of removing siding etc cost ~500 (Screws, Tyvek and 6 mil poly & tape)

Then we plan on selling the place in 5 years and building something. (this plan could go to Sh**) but you got to have a plan.

Lol I am teetering on going back to spray foam its just so much more money and money is really tight right now. Dang it!

 

[LB-1911]

Also need to track down some Z channel or rat guard to install...

Once again - Kitsap Lumber and Hardware, Inc

http://www.kitsaplumber.com/about.aspx

 

[Ray Kelly]

Menards has them. I bought them there when I did my metal storage shed a few years ago. They come in brown and white. And in all different lengths. I bought my siding there too.

 

[jameswood]

Why not just staple tyvek to post sides on inside and eliminate having to take off siding? Still get a decent air barrier and loose that 1 1/2 air space, but is it worth it?

 

[Kels]

Why not just staple tyvek to post sides on inside and eliminate having to take off siding? Still get a decent air barrier and loose that 1 1/2 air space, but is it worth it?

my shop was attacked and runover with mice when I inherited it! We had to rip out the insulation that was there and the inside is already framed for insulation bats in a manner that makes its very hard to really instal tyvek correct at all. I think at least

 

[jameswood]

my shop was attacked and runover with mice when I inherited it! We had to rip out the insulation that was there and the inside is already framed for insulation bats in a manner that makes its very hard to really instal tyvek correct at all. I think at least

Understand.

You def should add interior angle urethaned to floor trick then.

Also allows whatever wall material used to be held off floor 1/2-3/4" for movement and keep it from wicking water.

In your case I would have 3/4 angle positioned in under that 2x bottom and after it set (before wall is applied) run another bead of urethane across it to cover any floor irregularities those little boogers could get into..

 

[jameswood]

my shop was attacked and runover with mice when I inherited it! We had to rip out the insulation that was there and the inside is already framed for insulation bats in a manner that makes its very hard to really instal tyvek correct at all. I think at least

When I inherited mine it was just starting to get a rodent intrusion at one wall location. Spent quite a bit of time both inside and out making it as rodent proof as I knew how as intent was to finish interior and heat it to use for business shop.

Even dug around perimeter exterior and tucked Alum diamond plate under the existing rat guard (flashing at siding bottom) down 12-18" and plate compacted the earth about 2' out all around perimeter.

 

[Kels]

When I inherited mine it was just starting to get a rodent intrusion at one wall location. Spent quite a bit of time both inside and out making it as rodent proof as I knew how as intent was to finish interior and heat it to use for business shop.

Even dug around perimeter exterior and tucked Alum diamond plate under the existing rat guard (flashing at siding bottom) down 12-18" and plate compacted the earth about 2' out all around perimeter.

You have pics of your shop and how you finished it. We are working to make a section of it office/art/computer area insulated and heated. the other part of the shop will stay as is...

 

[Highbeam]

So in our climate, you were advised to use, from teh outside towards the inside:

metal siding, tyvek, unfaced fiberglass batts, 6 mill poly, then sheetrock with paint?

Did you investigate other cheap insulations like wet cellulose or even faced FG?

I'm being selfish and am trying to gain from your experience for my barn. I already have the tyvek between the metal and the girts.

 

[jameswood]

You have pics of your shop and how you finished it. We are working to make a section of it office/art/computer area insulated and heated. the other part of the shop will stay as is...

So you are doing a partition and using some exterior walls and ceiling?

Mine is finished for a pole building work shop 42x72. Metal siding, next=vinyl wrapped insul, gerts, rigid xps insul sheets then 1/2 osb and painted white. Also removed orig cheap windows and installed 3/4" fixed insulated glass, then insulated and double-tripple sealed OH door, etc...to make it very tight

Ceiling was bit more complex (detail in my profile album). No vents open truss and heating with a IR tube 50ft (center fire and vented at each end).

 

[Kels]

Yeah you have the order right on installing, but I was getting mixed info... I think they said to use un-faced so I could pack as much insulation in as possible. (this seems strange to dense pack fiberglass since from all the reading I have done the air space in the insulation is what gives it an R value. I think the other thought was that you can get a better vapor barrier with the poly then faced bats stapled etc.

All that said, I happen to have a lot of kraft faced fiberglass bats so I might go that route. Tape really well then install sheetrock and seal it well also.

I was told that Bibs are the next best thing to spray foam...

Heck I called one pole barn company in our general area and the guy said to just put bats in and call it good (I did not trust this information) I personally think that Fiberglas in contact with the metal will wick and hold any moisture then the wood would start to rot, thus the use of the tyvek.

the original insulation that I pulled out and in the area that we tore out sheet rock it was just faced fiberglass insulation (Metal - Condensation blanket - 1" air gap, Faced fiberglass insulation in another framed wall - sheetrock - paint) Because the mice caused so much damage it is hard to tell if there was any issues caused by this method. I do know that the metal on the building is pretty tight when I ripped out the old Fiberglas/condensation blanket there where very few places that showed signs of wind/dirt intrusion from the siding overlaps...So I kinda question how much of a vapor barrier the metal siding is. We don't have closure strips or rat guard on the shop thus the mice found their way in and I wonder if it was done that way to let moisture out if it collected.

I think that for the most part no one knows what the right way is aside from spraying it.

If I was planning on living here for 20 years, I'd spray foam it from what I have read. I come across so many people that are happy with it and would do it again in a heart beat but its expensive!!!!!

I have learned that cellulose cant be in contact with metal if it gets wet it produces salt and then rusts

Lol I duno how much help I am I overthink everything until I am more confused then when I started!

 

[Kels]

Well my husband ordered #14 screws!!!! JESUS
is this bad seems like if they fail i wont have anything to go up to???

 

[jameswood]

Kels, Could have been a misunderstanding where what they really meant was to just fill the area as full as framing allowed (not over pack) as you would think a metal building company would know better....but these day's companies fire the smart people so they can hire cheaper know nothing help. ...gotta cut cost's man

Fiberglass needs the exact space it was produced to fill as the air it holds is what gives it it's R value. Tighter pack and or moisture reduces it's R value. Yeah, don't it touching cold metal...

In fact that white vinyl wrapped pole bldg insulation (looks to be what I see in your ceiling pic and what I have ceiling and walls) has a reduced R value (from whatever it's rating wasa orig) because it gets squished every 2ft when metal roof/siding is screwed down. But it's function is to stop warmer air from meeting cold metal and condensing, not to give some big R value and usually does that job in the space it was installed for.

I am not a believer in using fiberglass insulation in a pole barn unless I can eliminate potential moisture and varmints which on a remodel of an existing structure that someone else built can be challenging to say the least.

Yeah, spray insulation was not in this tightwads budget either. Biggest thing on walls is to stop the air infiltration and sounds like you are gonna get that done.

Also, sure you don't have anything at the bottom of siding? If not then be good time to add when sidings off.

 

[Kels]

In fact that white vinyl wrapped pole bldg insulation (looks to be what I see in your ceiling pic and what I have ceiling and walls) has a reduced R value (from whatever it's rating wasa orig) because it gets squished every 2ft when metal roof/siding is screwed down. But it's function is to stop warmer air from meeting cold metal and condensing, not to give some big R value and usually does that job in the space it was installed for.

When I go to insulate the ceiling can I add more insulation to it and leave it cathedral style.... I have NO ventilation aside from the narrow small gap where the R panels are raised. NO SOFFITS and no RIDGE vent though again no closure strips on the roof.

I am not a believer in using fiberglass insulation in a pole barn unless I can eliminate potential moisture and varmints which on a remodel of an existing structure that someone else built can be challenging to say the least.

Yeah, spray insulation was not in this tightwads budget either. Biggest thing on walls is to stop the air infiltration and sounds like you are gonna get that done.

Would you do this as follows {metal - tyvek - Fiberglass - vaporbarrier - drywall - paint} can I used kraft back fiberglass or should I use the 6 mil poly?

Also, sure you don't have anything at the bottom of siding? If not then be good time to add when sidings off.

Nope you can either see right outside or there are some areas that had great stuff sprayed in.... would you use great stuff or closure strips or something else?


THANKS!!!!!

 

[jameswood]

When I go to insulate the ceiling can I add more insulation to it and leave it cathedral style.... I have NO ventilation aside from the narrow small gap where the R panels are raised. NO SOFFITS and no RIDGE vent though again no closure strips on the roof.

Would you do this as follows {metal - tyvek - Fiberglass - vaporbarrier - drywall - paint} can I used kraft back fiberglass or should I use the 6 mil poly?


Nope you can either see right outside or there are some areas that had great stuff sprayed in.... would you use great stuff or closure strips or something else?


THANKS!!!!!

Ceiling- I did mine as you say. Take a look at my album as what you want I did and it's been 5yrs no problems. I do however have a ridge (fiberglass) skylight sealed well and multiple layers of additional clear poly built inside so it is possible I get some vapor exit thru it. Hard to know. Had I not had this skylight I prob would have designed a similar small sized ridge attic (for lack of better term right now) and vented at each end.

I wouldn't use fiberglass myself, but would remove 2x framing instead and just use EPS or XPS (opinions vary which is better). Research the facts re wall loss compared to ceiling? Think only 25% (?). Using backed insul or not makes no difference when you use that poly as it becomes the VB. If ya wanna be sure just razor some slits in it before stapling the poly on.

I would take the opportunity to add that bottom flashing or mice will love thier new home! In fact I dug around my perimeter and ran some 18" 1/16 Alum diamond plate below grade then the flashing goes to that then the metal siding is above. You wont stop them with just foam fill, they just chew right threw it. Even adding a Z strip (1 inch down, 1 inch out then goes down again) to me will fail as most run mower against it or whatever and damage it then mice win! Maybe an actual 1/16 alum Z be less apt to fail (?).
The better bottom flashing to me goes down, then out then angles back. I would spend some thought doing this best ya can as looks to me like your major weak point for intrusion. Don't worry about needing to drain water because seems to me if you are draining water then something was designed wrong.
JMO

 

[Kels]

Well, It's just about done!!!!!

The sides came off really easy tyvek was not too hard to work with as long as the wind didn't get too crazy, the last side we did was really easy and fast.

Now we are putting trim and gutters back on.

Dad came and helped with the full process very glad for his help! The tricky part was getting the panels lined up right when going back on. We found attaching the panels with a few screws and getting it lined up work the best.

I'll post some pics later

 

[MagKarl]

I would do some more research before you add another vapor barrier on the inside of your insulation. I've been under the impression you don't want to have two barriers and possibly trap moisture between them. This is not a dry climate and mold is no joke.

 

[Kels]

I would do some more research before you add another vapor barrier on the inside of your insulation. I've been under the impression you don't want to have two barriers and possibly trap moisture between them. This is not a dry climate and mold is no joke.

Tyvek breaths.... uh is the metal considered a vapor barrier?

 

[jameswood]

Know what ya mean dealing with that wind....just try to predict 2 consecutive no wind days, forget it! No fun replacing my above ground pool liner and once started you're committed.