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Replacements for T8's

Rod N

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Jul 21, 2011
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Keswick, Ontario
Hi Guys,

My 4ft T8 fluorescents are dying and need to be replaced.
What is the go to these days as I know everything keeps changing?
Stay with fluorescents or go LED?
Thanks
Rod
Lights.jpg
T8.jpg
 
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u2slow

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I like T8 (electronic) instant-starts. The light quality is nice on my eyes. One of my now-dated tricks was to only buy the 4-lamp ballasts and gang two old twin-tube fixtures together.

They are also easy to put LED tubes into if you prefer.
 

cybrdyke

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12 US States have legislation banning fluorescent lamps, 9 of which are either already in effect or go into effect in 2025. The manufacturers have already geared production way down on these lamps, with some of the bigger ones exiting the segment entirely.
Canada's timeline is about 4 years behind USA's, but because the bulk of the manufacturers' business is gone and production has been cut, you can expect it to gradually get harder and harder to replace fluorescent lamps. The prices are already higher than they have been in the past, a result of normal demand with less-than-normal supply.
Fluorescent lamps are dinosaurs. Unless you want to put off the inevitable for a couple more years, I'd switch to LED.
Good luck,
CD
 

dscheidt

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If it were me, there's no question, LED all the way. The only thing is, do you have electronic ballasts? If so, you can use a drop-in LED bulb, but if not, you'll either want to replace the ballasts or do a ballast delete.

be aware that most LED tubes are much lower output than those tubes were when new -- they're rated at ~3000 lumens/ tube, and typically actually exceeded that, depending on the ballast. Most LED replacements are 1500 to 1900. that might not matter in your application, but it does for some.
 

rlitman

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be aware that most LED tubes are much lower output than those tubes were when new -- they're rated at ~3000 lumens/ tube, and typically actually exceeded that, depending on the ballast. Most LED replacements are 1500 to 1900. that might not matter in your application, but it does for some.
True, but it's not a fair rating since the beam patterns are so different. The fluorescent beam is spread over 360 degrees while the LED is over 180. In a shop light with a white "reflector", you're not getting most of that upper half of the light, so the 3000 lumen fluorescent puts less light on the workbench than the 2100 lumen drop-in LED. In a fixture with an aluminized parabolic reflector, the fluorescent still wins, but that's a different beast. Also, as you said - when new. Fluorescent light output drops rapidly (CRI even faster). LED maintains close to full brightness for much longer.

And that's at room temperature. I have fixtures that supposedly start a T8 lamp at -20F (and some at 0F), but below 40F, the fluorescent tubes were all so dim you could have told me they were solar path lights. LED doesn't care about the cold.
 

u2slow

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Electronic ballasts do start better in the cold than the old magnetics. The lamp temperature also increases once it has been lit a while, and the light output improves accordingly.

Early T8 ballasts were not electronic. Most of these are gone by now.

I have not had any issue ordering T8 fluor lamps by the case yet. Work still gets them that way too. Retailers prefer to stock shelves with $40 fixtures - not $4 lamps where they lose a number to rough handling.

While LED doesn't dim as bad over its service life, there can still be driver failure, and individual LED failure.

I recently bought single-row LED strips from amazon for a particular space, but the remaining T8 fixtures will get shuffled around elsewhere in my shop.
 

mikedodge

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True, but it's not a fair rating since the beam patterns are so different. The fluorescent beam is spread over 360 degrees while the LED is over 180. In a shop light with a white "reflector", you're not getting most of that upper half of the light, so the 3000 lumen fluorescent puts less light on the workbench than the 2100 lumen drop-in LED. In a fixture with an aluminized parabolic reflector, the fluorescent still wins, but that's a different beast. Also, as you said - when new. Fluorescent light output drops rapidly (CRI even faster). LED maintains close to full brightness for much longer.

And that's at room temperature. I have fixtures that supposedly start a T8 lamp at -20F (and some at 0F), but below 40F, the fluorescent tubes were all so dim you could have told me they were solar path lights. LED doesn't care about the cold.
At the same time fluorescent has light coming out in all directions and does have reflected light coming down where LED tubes are more unidirectional. Altho newer ones are a lot better then the older ones are.
Right now when tubes burn out I'm still using new fluorescent ones, but if it's a ballast problem there's more of a reason to change it out to something else.
 

PFSard

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* How many fixtures are you dealing with? What kinds of problems are you having (as in dying)?
* I only have one T-8 fixture in my garage at home. With four spare bulbs that were given to me by someone that switched to LEDs. So, I just replace bulbs, as needed.
* If I had multiple fixtures..... I'd do a cost-benefit analysis on LED replacement. Including your expected electricity costs. T-8 fluorescents are a common item that are mass produced (still relatively cheap). Unlike say a T5 bulb (which have become much more expensive).
* And environmentally, those Octron bulbs are probably over loaded with Mercury. Another consideration.
 

cybrdyke

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True, but it's not a fair rating since the beam patterns are so different. The fluorescent beam is spread over 360 degrees while the LED is over 180. In a shop light with a white "reflector", you're not getting most of that upper half of the light, so the 3000 lumen fluorescent puts less light on the workbench than the 2100 lumen drop-in LED. In a fixture with an aluminized parabolic reflector, the fluorescent still wins, but that's a different beast. Also, as you said - when new. Fluorescent light output drops rapidly (CRI even faster). LED maintains close to full brightness for much longer.

And that's at room temperature. I have fixtures that supposedly start a T8 lamp at -20F (and some at 0F), but below 40F, the fluorescent tubes were all so dim you could have told me they were solar path lights. LED doesn't care about the cold.
What he said is correct^^^
Typical F32T8 lamp emits 2850 lumens. It's run by a ballast that drives it at 88%. (2850 x .88 = 2508). Typical strip fixture is 75% efficient, meaning only 75% of the light gets out of the fixture. (2508 x .75 = 1881). Lumen depreciation at 40% of life is between 10% and 15%. (1881 x .9 = 1693). So, regardless of what the data sheet of a new F32T8 says it's lumens are, you only get about 1700 lumens delivered.
Coincidentally, you'll notice that new LED tubes put out about 1700 to 2000 lumens, with no ballast loss and a beam angle that delivers all the lumens to target. The lumen output was set to those levels deliberately to match the output of a fluorescent lamp. So, yes, a 1700 lumen LED lamp delivers as much light as a 2850 lumen fluorescent lamp.
CD
 

Norcal

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Those fixtures look pretty good, I would replace the T8's with ballast bypass LED's, then if a lamp craps out just replace the lamp, not the whole fixture.
 
OP
R

Rod N

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My plan is to replace them with the ballast bypass type.
Hoping not to have to mess with them for a while.
I actually found some at work that I forgot I had. Not enough, but I can order more.
 

thammel

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Maryland
I have gone to all led T8s. I get 5000k, single ended, not needing ballast. I also like frosted non-glass plastic tubes. No breakage concern. I've ordered a lot from ledmyplace.com. I've rewired my existing fixtures and simply left the old ballasts in. I also bought a bag of tombstones (that's what they call the things that hold and provide power for the tubes at then ends; you may not need these).

What's nice about the LEDs are that they are instant on, never fade and are absolutely quiet.
 

Bert_

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I'd relamp them with fluorescent. I tend to stick with old tech. Electronic T8 was never really never that interesting though.
 
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dscheidt

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I'd relamp them with fluorescent. I tend to stick with old tech. Electronic T8 was never really never that interesting though.
The actual tech in program start electronic ballasts is pretty cool. So were the results -- 20K hour tube life even on frequent starts, very high ballast factors possible, instant starting down to 0F or lower, and high efficiency. Can do better with LED these days, but for 20 years ago, it was impressive.
 

dscheidt

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What he said is correct^^^
Typical F32T8 lamp emits 2850 lumens. It's run by a ballast that drives it at 88%. (2850 x .88 = 2508). Typical strip fixture is 75% efficient, meaning only 75% of the light gets out of the fixture. (2508 x .75 = 1881). Lumen depreciation at 40% of life is between 10% and 15%. (1881 x .9 = 1693). So, regardless of what the data sheet of a new F32T8 says it's lumens are, you only get about 1700 lumens delivered.
Coincidentally, you'll notice that new LED tubes put out about 1700 to 2000 lumens, with no ballast loss and a beam angle that delivers all the lumens to target. The lumen output was set to those levels deliberately to match the output of a fluorescent lamp. So, yes, a 1700 lumen LED lamp delivers as much light as a 2850 lumen fluorescent lamp.
CD
I replaced the tubes in the lights in my garage with direct wire led replacements, from a good supplier. Manufacturer claimed they were equivalent to what I was replacing. Measured output of the LEDs directly below was about 85% the foot candles, falling off to more like 75% at the edge of coverage. these were good commercial fixtures with good reflectors, good GE ballasts, but rather aged tubes. Many people might have considered it the same, I didn't. I would have lived with it, but the color rendering was ****, so I put the tubes and ballasts back. I got some nice commercial led panels for a good price, so the fluorescents are gone. need to get around to running wire so I can dim them.
 

CitadelBlue

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I suspect the ballasts are shot. What about the LED where you bypass the ballast?
We had 3 and 4 fluorescent 40 watt tube fixtures with several of these in the rooms and offices in our church. I replaced them with 2each 18watt led tubes ballast bi pass at less than $5 per tube. Led tubes were made by Parmida available at Amazon. They come in either frosted or clear with a 5 year warranty. Easy diy instructions for wiring.
 

txvwnut

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LED all the way. I did it when I lost a ballast in one of my HO fixtures. Went from eight foot fluorescent fixtures to four LED's and it actually got brighter in my shop.
 

NUTTSGT

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I went with drop in LED replacement T8s and left it at that. Just a simple bulb swap.

I've swapped out 2 ballast in the time, several years, since I changed over. I have something like 24 or 25 fixtures in the garage. Easier to just swap a ballast as needed.
 

Firebrick43

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I replaced all of mine with LED no ballast . LED bulb life is not what expected to see . Not pleased
What brand?

I have not had a single failure yet of my hyperkons installed 8 years ago. Unfortunately my kids sometimes leave them burning 25/7

Junk those dinosaurs and pick up a package of these....you won't believe the difference. They come in whatever number you need for your space. The 12 pack is $80, for God's sake.

71qdANJzEHL._AC_SL1500_.jpgAgain, you won't believe the difference.


On the other hand i put some of these up in my pole barn and have had a 20 percent failure rate after 5 years. And they are not as easy to replace as swaping out a tube on a converted t8 fixture.
 

Norcal

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What brand?

I have not had a single failure yet of my hyperkons installed 8 years ago. Unfortunately my kids sometimes leave them burning 25/7



On the other hand i put some of these up in my pole barn and have had a 20 percent failure rate after 5 years. And they are not as easy to replace as swaping out a tube on a converted t8 fixture.
A major reason I prefer retrofitting existing fixtures to ballast bypass LED is that it's quite difficult to replace a discontinued fixture & then you end up with a hodge podge of fixtures. With fluorescent a lot of fixtures were manufactured for many years it was easy to match, now they are off shored & of dubious quality & product supply lifespan, if a retrofitted fluorescent fails, replace the LED tubes & your done.
 

cybrdyke

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How do I retrofit my ballast type fixtures? I have several old style T8 fixtures and the ballast and or tubes are failing.
Tell me the part # of the ballast.
It could be one of two ways, both are easy.
CD
 

Impala Bob

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Pungent Sound, WA
I would like to get rid of the ballast, the present ballast are American Ballast Model No. AB2-32-IP-120-1. These also seem to be no longer available.
 

cybrdyke

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what does the ballast have to do with it? I think he wants to be rid of them.
If it's instant start, the fixure will most likely have shunted sockets. If it's rapid start or programmed rapid start, then the fixture will most likely have non-shunted sockets.
I would like to get rid of the ballast, the present ballast are American Ballast Model No. AB2-32-IP-120-1. These also seem to be no longer available.
Thanks. That's an instant start ballast. Cut the wires close to the ballast, leaving long leads from the sockets. Take the two leads from the sockets on one end and connect them to the white wire feeding the fixture. Take the two leads from the sockets on the other end and connect them to the black wire feeding the fixture. Done. Easy peasy.
CD
 

MacMcMacmac

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I put a pair of universal drop in LED T8-T12 bulbs from Walmart last week and the brightness improved in my garage. Ballast type is irrelevant, they work with either.
 

PassnThru

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Bowling Green KY
I have 8 four bulb fixtures in my garage - 48 inch T8s. I replaced them with single end ballast bypass LEDs. I did have to buy some tombstones as I was powering them from one end and my current ones were shunted. I only replaced the tombstones on the powered end as the one's on the non-powered end were now disconnected and merely holding the lamp up - and they weren't connected internally in the bulb. I connected them in the center of the fixture (picture two 4 foot fixtures joined together with two bulbs each) and removed the ballasts. The wiring is not difficult - but I recall (this was several years ago) that polarity mattered between the bulb and the tombstone so I had to be careful wiring it so that the LEDs faced down when installed. Shortly after that I did the same in the attached garage that only had 4 four foot fixtures with two bulbs each. So in total I retrofitted 40 bulbs.
According to Amazon I did this in mid 2019 and so far I've only had to replace 1 bulb and they are used almost daily. Since I used the same bulb everywhere I ordered a pack of six to store for replacements.
Light was brighter initially and quite an improvement. Seems less now but really I think I've just gotten used to it and it's likely the same. I'm getting older and the past 5 years has made a difference for me on how much light I need.
On the negative side - my GDO range decreased dramatically - to the point that I almost had to be touching the door with the bumper for it to work. I've taken care of that but it wasn't cheap.
Would still do it all over again.
 

qmdv

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Dec 20, 2012
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So I have 9 year old eight foot T-8s. There are two rows of four in a 24 by 48 pole barn shop. There are four 4 foot two pin bulbs per light. The mounting height is 16 feet. What I need to know is what sort of conversion to LED is the most durable as I cannot just use a step ladder but will be renting a scissor lift. I do not want to be changing bulbs
 
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