Replacing just the leach field?

[Hobby_Man22]

Will companies install a new leach field without a permit? Around here conventional systems have to be replaced with aerobic systems now. Not sure why since the conventional leach bed system lasts like 50 years. The tanks are concrete they aren't going anywhere. It's like 20k for an aerobic system and maybe like 7k to replace a leach field.

 

[Garcky]

Will companies install a new leach field without a permit? Around here conventional systems have to be replaced with aerobic systems now. Not sure why since the conventional leach bed system lasts like 50 years. The tanks are concrete they aren't going anywhere. It's like 20k for an aerobic system and maybe like 7k to replace a leach field.

I'm sure it depends on the location. Different jurisdictions and states have different rules, no doubt. In my life, I've had half a dozen leach fields on my properties replaced, converting some of them to leach pits. However, the last place I lived ( in an unincorporated town) that had a septic system installed a regular sewer system in that town, so the old septic system had to be abandoned to connect to the new system.

 

[K13]

If a permit is required, they are also being asked to sidestep local regulations and are a reputable company then common sense should give you the answer.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

If a permit is required are they also being asked to sidestep local regulations and are a reputable company then common sense should give you the answer.

No I'd still want it done to code. Not half *** it.

 

[K13]

No I'd still want it done to code. Not half *** it.

You said it was a requirement to switch to an aerobic system and you are asking them not to so you are asking them to disregard regulations. It's not to code if code is an aerobic system.

 

[dcg9381]

Will companies install a new leach field without a permit? Around here conventional systems have to be replaced with aerobic systems now. Not sure why since the conventional leach bed system lasts like 50 years. The tanks are concrete they aren't going anywhere. It's like 20k for an aerobic system and maybe like 7k to replace a leach field.

"have to be replaced"
Meaning they need to be replaced by X date ('cause this is gonna be a problem for a lot of folks)?

Septic regulation varies wildly. If they are mandating replacement, I'd assume there is a permit process and they have records of existing septic. I'd be surprised if they are forcing everyone to dig all this up - lots of people aren't going to be able to eat that cost. I'd get it if any new modifications or additions require a modern approach.

An aerobic system is going to require two circuits. One for the pump and the other for the alarm (they need to be separate, at least here).

How it works here:
You HAVE to have an engineered septic system.
To engineer a septic system, you have to do a "perc test" - which involves digging 3-4' holes in your "prospective" leach field and then getting the septic engineer out to have a look at them.
Once you have an engineered septic system, you apply for a permit to put it in.
You have to use contractors that are licensed to install septic.
The field gets inspected before being buried.
The tank must be filled with water for X days and inspected by the county.
If all is OK, the county issues a "permit to operate".
I spent nearly $20k on a traditional gravity feed system in 2020.

Having owned both, I'd much rather have traditional gravity feed.

 

[LXCam]

My recent experience three months ago was the leach field was considered a repair as was the baffle replacements. So no permit required. It needed to be done in order to off the house and everything was accepted without issue.

 

[Renegade1LI]

I would call and ask a local company, see what they say, it may be easier than you think.

 

[dcg9381]

My recent experience three months ago was the leach field was considered a repair as was the baffle replacements. So no permit required. It needed to be done in order to off the house and everything was accepted without issue.

I think moving from a traditional to aerobic system requires several additional things. I've had both systems, the leech fields are of entirely different designs. You're also adding pump(s) / electrical.

OP: How is this "mandated"? I'd assume these older systems (that had approvals) were grandfathered. I get it if it's a thing that you feel you need to do with a sale.

 

[finn]

Sounds like an older system is ok, and grandfathered until it needs repair, then it has to be brought up to current code.

Is that much different than other home improvement projects? If your roof leaks and it already has multiple shingle layers, the new roof has to be to current code, as far as I know, which means a tear off.

 

[reader2580]

Typically, the reason local authorities would require a change to a non-standard type of septic system is because they have determined that standard septic systems don't meet modern requirements.

The area I live in has 40 year old homes originally built with standard leach field septic systems. Many of the houses, mine included, have required new septic systems. All of the replacement systems are mound systems as leach field systems no longer pass perc tests. Quite a few of the houses on the street went through foreclosure. Every one of the foreclosed houses that had a standard leach field system had to have a new mound septic system installed at time of sale for whatever reason. My house was also foreclosed, but the previous owners had installed a new mound septic system three years before I bought the house. Over 50% of the city requires mound septic systems now with the rest still able to do a leach field system.

 

[sjvicker]

I haven't come across an example personally or online where a leach field could be replaced without a permit and a contractor that will do this work without a permit is not a contractor you want. You need the system sized correctly and you have no guarantee that an unpermitted system is correct.

King County in WA highly discourages septic systems to the point where when your septic field eventually fails you'll be required to connect to sewer if its available. It makes sense, its less about stopping someone from doing their own work and more about controlling water contamination in the area.

It wouldn't surprise me if you're required to update to an aerobic system because it provides a cleaner effluent. I'm not an expert so that's just an assumption.

 

[jkuro]

You want to replace your leach field without a permit but then you say:

No I'd still want it done to code. Not half *** it.

WTF, get the permit and do it right.

 

[CombatNinja]

In my area, a leach field can be replaced with no permits, inspections, etc. As soon as you get to the distro box or into the tank, the story changes. But I live in podunk, North Carolina so take that for what you will. The South is pretty lax with things compared to where I grew up Back East.

 

[reader2580]

King County in WA highly discourages septic systems to the point where when your septic field eventually fails you'll be required to connect to sewer if its available. It makes sense, its less about stopping someone from doing their own work and more about controlling water contamination in the area.

Where I live a suburb that didn't have city sewer installed it about a decade ago. The original plan was that each house that now had sewer access had to either hook up or pay the monthly sewer charge by a deadline about three years after the sewer was installed. Yes, you had to pay a sewer bill even if you didn't hook up! The city needed the money to cover the operating costs of the new sewer system. The city eventually backed off the requirement and not sure what finally happened. It would cost each homeowner a good $10,000 in fees plus plumbing costs to connect to the sewer system. That is on top of the $30,000 assessment per house to build the system.

The city I previously lived in installed city water and sewer in the 1960s. Every house in the city was on city sewer by the time I moved there in 2002. The city allowed the continued use of wells, but you had to connect to city water if the well failed. Those I knew who still had wells in 2002 just used them for irrigation and had city water for household use.

 

[reader2580]

You want to replace your leach field without a permit but then you say:

WTF, get the permit and do it right.

If you read the original post the OP may/will be required to replace the leach field with an anaerobic system if a permit is taken out. The OP just wants to replace the leach field. The no permit thing is to avoid having to install an aerobic system which is presumably a lot more expensive to install.

 

[PoorUB]

Pretty darned certain they city or county will not let you replace the leach field and not bring it up to code. It isn't like a repair, you are replacing a mojor part of the system.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Pretty darned certain they city or county will not let you replace the leach field and not bring it up to code. It isn't like a repair, you are replacing a mojor part of the system.

Well I just mean install it so it works. I mean it's gravel and perforated pipe not exactly rocket science.

 

[jar944]

Well I just mean install it so it works. I mean it's gravel and perforated pipe not exactly rocket science.

If they are making everyone install aerobic systems across the county then the original systems never really worked for your soil conditions.

 

[sjvicker]

Where I live a suburb that didn't have city sewer installed it about a decade ago. The original plan was that each house that now had sewer access had to either hook up or pay the monthly sewer charge by a deadline about three years after the sewer was installed. Yes, you had to pay a sewer bill even if you didn't hook up! The city needed the money to cover the operating costs of the new sewer system. The city eventually backed off the requirement and not sure what finally happened. It would cost each homeowner a good $10,000 in fees plus plumbing costs to connect to the sewer system. That is on top of the $30,000 assessment per house to build the system.

Oh man, do I have a story here.

When I bought my house in King County it was listed as being on sewer so I called them up and started paying. 6ish years after living here I had a backup into my basement and upon digging out the line I found a septic tank and that I was actually on septic. I always had the greener patch of lawn but figured it was some runoff from a neighbor and the spot was pretty small. A dye test at the street proved I was still on septic and the sewer district agreed to stop charging me. I had no recourse with the sewer district for reimbursement because they technically could still charge me if they wanted to since sewer was available and I had no recourse with past owners because I have no idea who lied or messed up and listed it as being on sewer.

All was fine until about 3 years ago when my drain field failed. I did what HobbyMan is suggesting and called a "fix-it" guy and found out pretty quick he wasn't going to permit and the fix probably wouldn't last so I didn't go with him. To save some $ I figured I could repair my own drainfield and be better than what was there. So I did some size calcs based on a poor perk and my bedroom size and bought the chamber system. Install was pretty easy but as I dug down I found a thick clay layer. I hoped for the best given the increased size and how long the old clay pipe and pea gravel system lasted but it filled up and didn't drain one bit. Connecting to sewer was my only option.

The first company eyeballed the distance and said I'd need to pump up and that would add about $14k to the cost. The second guy took the time and shot the elevations and found out it could be done with gravity only so we went with him. While connecting to the main he found a mystery stub out that was not in use and had the sewer district scope it to verify. He capped that stub out at the main and finished our connection. He was quick, did great work and we had no issues until the following year.

We received a knock on the door from the sewer district that they needed to dig at our driveway as our neighbors sewage was backing up into his basement. It turns out that mystery stub-out wasn't capped and the sewer district never scoped it. Our neighbors sewage had been backing up in that pipe for a long time but since it was a long run, cracked concrete and below the vein of clay it took a long time before it finally backed up into his house. Had the sewer district actually scoped the line as they said, we would have found a much more direct route to connect to that would have cut our connection fee in half.

The one good thing out of all of this was that a previous owner paid the initial fee when the sewer was added on our road and there was record of the payment on file. Because of this we only had to pay for the pipe run and not the additional sewer fee.

 

[walta]

Seems to me of you have your tank pumped out every few years your leach field should out live you.



Walta

 

[PoorUB]

Well I just mean install it so it works. I mean it's gravel and perforated pipe not exactly rocket science.

Wow!
It doesn't make any difference how easy it is to install, it needs to be done to current code requirements. I doubt you will be able to simply replace a whole leach field. Sounds like permit time and inspections and I would be very surprised if they will not require you to meet current code. If a leach field will satisfy current code and they will allow you to install it yourself, then knock yourself out, but I doubt it will happen. Many areas you need to hire a licensed plumber, one that has been properly trained and certified to install septic systems. Around here the state and county will not allow just anyone to do it.

 

[The Cobbler]

a buddy had issues with his septic system. no way could he find anyone to do it on the sly so to speak . The issue is they have probably less than 10 yrs that they can stay at the property and when they sell, the house will be torn down and a Mc Mansion built elsewhere on the 30 acre property . an investment in a new system is a poor investment, the money will never be recouped .
In the end he did some repairs to the field himself and all is good .

 

[CombatNinja]

Seems to me of you have your tank pumped out every few years your leach field should out live you.



Walta

Popular misconception about septic systems. A properly functioning/sized tank never needs pumped if you are mindful of what you put into it and the tank being pumped really has nothing to do with extending the life of the leach field.

 

[bb29510]

here, any repair to a system requires a complete new system, with new engineering

 

[bb29510]

if done correctly, the only thing that enters the leech system is water

 

[Hobby_Man22]

here, any repair to a system requires a complete new system, with new engineering

It's kind of like breathing life into an r22 hvac system. We're kind of sol now at this point. Of course when they change the design every 10 years now.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

I was told the key was to do a perc test in the summer time when it's dry as a bone.

 

[denis4x4]

The county now requires a health department septic system check when homes are sold. I was able to put a new leach field in despite the fact that the newer systems were required by the county. By the time we were done with the new leach field, the old field was working again. I installed a Y valve and now can switch from one field to another. Also have the tanks pumped every two years.

 

[sjvicker]

I was told the key was to do a perc test in the summer time when it's dry as a bone.

This is the trick used when you're required to have a septic inspection before selling a house. Using tricks to get a better perc on your own property would only result in your system or repair being undersized for your need.

 

[bigdav160]

The problem with half of Texas is the ground is clay and does not perc well. Many Counties, if they allow a traditional system, require enough space to have multiple leach fields so there's room when it finally fails.

In my County I can still install my own system because I have over 10 acres.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

The problem with half of Texas is the ground is clay and does not perc well. Many Counties, if they allow a traditional system, require enough space to have multiple leach fields so there's room when it finally fails.

In my County I can still install my own system because I have over 10 acres.

I guess 40-50 years ago they didn't have anything else? I don't get how a system can work fine for 50 years and now oh we're not allowed to replace it with the same thing. Of course that goes for a lot of things I suppose. Lol

 

[dcg9381]

If they are making everyone install aerobic systems across the county then the original systems never really worked for your soil conditions.

Then replacement should be dependent on perc test and soil conditions, not a global mandate to "replace all".
The OP hasn't indicated if this is a true mandate to replace all septic systems or what the deal is exactly.

 

[dcg9381]

The problem with half of Texas is the ground is clay and does not perc well. Many Counties, if they allow a traditional system, require enough space to have multiple leach fields so there's room when it finally fails.

In my County I can still install my own system because I have over 10 acres.

We're on a lot of limestone. I've had to do multiple perc tests to find the right spot for traditional septic. I VASTLY prefer a gravity feed system with no pumps to fail that doesn't depend on power.

Here they are super tight about septic permitting / inspection, but we're withing a very short distance of the Colorado river chain. Everything else is loosy-goosy, but not septic. And if I sell, I'm on the hook (liable) for anything that got changed without permission when I sold.

I have literally seen poorly installed systems float the septic tank with too much ground saturation. So there is a reason for septic engineering.

 

[reader2580]

Popular misconception about septic systems. A properly functioning/sized tank never needs pumped if you are mindful of what you put into it and the tank being pumped really has nothing to do with extending the life of the leach field.

The state of Minnesota requires an assessment of septic tanks and either measuring the depth of sludge or pumping the tanks every three years. Most everyone I know just has the tanks pumped every three years. The city I live in requires pumping every three years. They track it and send you a reminder if it isn't done. The pumping company has to submit a pumping record to the city every time they pump the tank.

 

[jar944]

Then replacement should be dependent on perc test and soil conditions, not a global mandate to "replace all".
The OP hasn't indicated if this is a true mandate to replace all septic systems or what the deal is exactly.

I would agree, but based on what he posted

Around here conventional systems have to be replaced with aerobic systems now.

It reads as all.

 

[andyvh1959]

Wow, from the variety of replies it is clear that each state, each county, each municipality can be different. I say start at the local level with a reputable contractor. Then find out the local codes and how that applies to replace or repair.

My one experience with a standard gravity fed tank/drain field septic system ended in a lawsuit. Me trying to sue the county for not allowing me to connect to the septic system on my country property, township would not issue a septic permit. The septic system was on the property for more than ten years. Township gave my friend a septic permit, for the same system, installed at the same time, on his property right next to my property, only a year before. He got the permit and went ahead to build his house. I applied for the septic permit to build my house the next year and was refused. Township/county decided to finally follow state code and I was screwed. Sold the property.

 

[f121]

What fails in a leech field? Unless I’ve misunderstood, this is a pipe outputting the run off from the septic tank into an underground bed of pea gravel?

 

[CombatNinja]

Usually it is sediment and fine silt that basically "clogs" the field, causing the system to back up. Can also be caused by excessive compaction of the soil around it like when people drive all over their leach field. The leach field can also start a chain reaction of backing up when the ground is super saturated as in a tropical weather event. That is why smart people in the South are mindful of how much they are putting into their tank during a storm.

 

[coldh2o]

Popular misconception about septic systems. A properly functioning/sized tank never needs pumped if you are mindful of what you put into it and the tank being pumped really has nothing to do with extending the life of the leach field.

This is not correct. Being mindful of what you put in the tank is very important for a few reasons, but ultimately the tank will accumulate solids - that's one key component of what it's designed to do. Accumulated solids will reduce the efficiency of the tank, and if those solids eventually flush through to the disposal bed it will clog and fail.

Pumping the tank every 3-5 years is recommended, and at less than $500 around here is cheap insurance against a very expensive replacement.