Sounds amazing- I do find Japanese and German made stuff to be pretty good. Howâs the warranty process for those things?Also bear in mind the Ko-ken has a very compact head and super low backdrag (it's like butter)
The ***-backwards reverse lever is a very small price to pay for the advantages you gain if you work on Euro and Japanese cars
Replacing my workhorse Dual 80 - suggestions?
- Thread starter jeff13m
- Start date
Same here - no hearing good feed back on the F100 but that was when they first came out curious if snap on made improvements already.
richfinn
Well-known member
I've never had to warranty anything Ko-ken, but my dealer UK Tools Ltd. states just return any Ko-ken item with a brief description of your issue and the original order number and it will be taken care of ASAP (I just save my emails from them)
I would imagine Palmac/Ko-ken USA will be the same.
Ko-ken (in my experience) are very proud of their products/reputation.
Dave455
Well-known member
I owned quite a few Snap On ratchets prior to the Dual 80 being introduced. So much so, that I decided I wouldnât replace any with the new model.
That decision didnât last long. As soon as Dual 80âs started turning up on deals, I couldnât resist getting some. And no regrets - I think the Dual 80 is about the best ratchet out there for most purposes. My most used, much like yourself, is the long / flex head.
I have yet to handle the 100 tooth. I think thereâs a limit to how many teeth you can put on any ratchet before the teeth simply get too small. The 1/4â drive Dual 80 can suffer from this a little. Just a tiny bit of contamination, or a minute forging fault, can cause it to skip or jam.
So, personally, Iâd replace with what you know and get another Dual 80. At least till folks have a bit more experience with the 100 tooth versions.
With regard to the Japanese tools, KTC (Kyoto Tool Co) are a major Japanese manufacturer. If you thought of them as the Japanese equivalent of, say, Proto, you wouldnât be far wrong.
Their ratchetâs are nice. Quality and finish are both excellent, but for the most part they are very good, but not exceptional. Prices are reasonable though, especially at present owing to the exchange rate.
KTC have recently introduced some fine tooth round head ratchets, and I do consider these to be exceptional, as they are almost a unique tool. I own this ratchet, and love it, but itâs not a replacement for my long / flex Dual 80.
KTCâs premium line is called âNeprosâ. Think of Nepros to KTC being what Lexus is to Toyota. The tools are awesome, no question. In quality, probably the equivalent of Snap On, if not higher. Sadly, you can say the same for the prices!
The patterns are different however, and in all honesty some are almost too good to use.
KoKen are a different company. Their tools are very much to American patterns, but they are by no means imitations. They only make socket wrenches and accessories, and produce probably the greatest selection of any manufacturer anywhere. They are widely used in Japanese industry.
Quality, again, is excellent, and I own a good deal. I normally describe KoKen quality as 90% of Snap On for about 35% of the price. In some areas (bit sockets) I think KoKen are preferable. In other areas, they lag just a little.
One such area is ratchetâs. They are superb tools, but not as fine tooth as a Dual 80, and the finish isnât quite as tough. They just donât feel the same. Iâm more than happy with mine though.
Some of the folks advising KoKen are, I suspect, thinking of their Z Series (often called Zeal in the U/S). This is a totally different range of tools, and I donât think the U.S. distributor does a good job of distinguishing one range from the other, because it's important to know what you are getting.
Z Series are designed to be as compact as possible, and to get the highest performance from a compact tool. Itâs important to understand this, because some folks complain about the sockets being short, or the ratchetâs having handles too small, but that is the whole point of the system.
I have a few Z Series tools, and they are awesome. Functionally, probably even better than Nepros. But⌠I still consider them tools for special purposes, and I wouldnât replace my long / flex Dual 80 with a Z Series ratchet.
Would I supplement my Snap On with Z Series? Oh yes, for sure, but when I use it I use Z Series sockets and accessories together, and I use it when appropriate.
That decision didnât last long. As soon as Dual 80âs started turning up on deals, I couldnât resist getting some. And no regrets - I think the Dual 80 is about the best ratchet out there for most purposes. My most used, much like yourself, is the long / flex head.
I have yet to handle the 100 tooth. I think thereâs a limit to how many teeth you can put on any ratchet before the teeth simply get too small. The 1/4â drive Dual 80 can suffer from this a little. Just a tiny bit of contamination, or a minute forging fault, can cause it to skip or jam.
So, personally, Iâd replace with what you know and get another Dual 80. At least till folks have a bit more experience with the 100 tooth versions.
With regard to the Japanese tools, KTC (Kyoto Tool Co) are a major Japanese manufacturer. If you thought of them as the Japanese equivalent of, say, Proto, you wouldnât be far wrong.
Their ratchetâs are nice. Quality and finish are both excellent, but for the most part they are very good, but not exceptional. Prices are reasonable though, especially at present owing to the exchange rate.
KTC have recently introduced some fine tooth round head ratchets, and I do consider these to be exceptional, as they are almost a unique tool. I own this ratchet, and love it, but itâs not a replacement for my long / flex Dual 80.
KTCâs premium line is called âNeprosâ. Think of Nepros to KTC being what Lexus is to Toyota. The tools are awesome, no question. In quality, probably the equivalent of Snap On, if not higher. Sadly, you can say the same for the prices!
The patterns are different however, and in all honesty some are almost too good to use.
KoKen are a different company. Their tools are very much to American patterns, but they are by no means imitations. They only make socket wrenches and accessories, and produce probably the greatest selection of any manufacturer anywhere. They are widely used in Japanese industry.
Quality, again, is excellent, and I own a good deal. I normally describe KoKen quality as 90% of Snap On for about 35% of the price. In some areas (bit sockets) I think KoKen are preferable. In other areas, they lag just a little.
One such area is ratchetâs. They are superb tools, but not as fine tooth as a Dual 80, and the finish isnât quite as tough. They just donât feel the same. Iâm more than happy with mine though.
Some of the folks advising KoKen are, I suspect, thinking of their Z Series (often called Zeal in the U/S). This is a totally different range of tools, and I donât think the U.S. distributor does a good job of distinguishing one range from the other, because it's important to know what you are getting.
Z Series are designed to be as compact as possible, and to get the highest performance from a compact tool. Itâs important to understand this, because some folks complain about the sockets being short, or the ratchetâs having handles too small, but that is the whole point of the system.
I have a few Z Series tools, and they are awesome. Functionally, probably even better than Nepros. But⌠I still consider them tools for special purposes, and I wouldnât replace my long / flex Dual 80 with a Z Series ratchet.
Would I supplement my Snap On with Z Series? Oh yes, for sure, but when I use it I use Z Series sockets and accessories together, and I use it when appropriate.
Last edited:
Andres26tnt
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 11, 2018
- Messages
- 994
The koken z is an excellent ratchet with only two things people might not like. One being the small handle, second the opposite switch. I personally don't care about the switch being reversed, I always check direction when I put on a socket. Not the biggest fan of the handle, it fits my hand but I prefer a slightly bigger one. I lied the 3rd biggest drawback is the 0 selection of styles, tho koken has been slowly working on that with the release of the quick release. Regardless like many mention, the low backdrag basically erases all the cons. It just feels so good to ratchet Nut or bolt off effortlessly, without having to create an friction like other ratchets with high back drag.
Wrench97
Well-known member
Air or electric takes care of the back drag issue and feels even gooder to just pull the trigger..........
Andres26tnt
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 11, 2018
- Messages
- 994
Thats nice until you can't fit one, everything has its place for sure.
nicks78camaro
Well-known member
Another dual 80
richfinn
Well-known member
I owned quite a few Snap On ratchets prior to the Dual 80 being introduced. So much so, that I decided I wouldnât replace any with the new model.
That decision didnât last long. As soon as Dual 80âs started turning up on deals, I couldnât resist getting some. And no regrets - I think the Dual 80 is about the best ratchet out there for most purposes. My most used, much like yourself, is the long / flex head.
I have yet to handle the 100 tooth. I think thereâs a limit to how many teeth you can put on any ratchet before the teeth simply get too small. The 1/4â drive Dual 80 can suffer from this a little. Just a tiny bit of contamination, or a minute forging fault, can cause it to skip or jam.
So, personally, Iâd replace with what you know and get another Dual 80. At least till folks have a bit more experience with the 100 tooth versions.
With regard to the Japanese tools, KTC (Kyoto Tool Co) are a major Japanese manufacturer. If you thought of them as the Japanese equivalent of, say, Proto, you wouldnât be far wrong.
Their ratchetâs are nice. Quality and finish are both excellent, but for the most part they are very good, but not exceptional. Prices are reasonable though, especially at present owing to the exchange rate.
KTC have recently introduced some fine tooth round head ratchets, and I do consider these to be exceptional, as they are almost a unique tool. I own this ratchet, and love it, but itâs not a replacement for my long / flex Dual 80.
KTCâs premium line is called âNeprosâ. Think of Nepros to KTC being what Lexus is to Toyota. The tools are awesome, no question. In quality, probably the equivalent of Snap On, if not higher. Sadly, you can say the same for the prices!
The patterns are different however, and in all honesty some are almost too good to use.
KoKen are a different company. Their tools are very much to American patterns, but they are by no means imitations. They only make socket wrenches and accessories, and produce probably the greatest selection of any manufacturer anywhere. They are widely used in Japanese industry.
Quality, again, is excellent, and I own a good deal. I normally describe KoKen quality as 90% of Snap On for about 35% of the price. In some areas (bit sockets) I think KoKen are preferable. In other areas, they lag just a little.
One such area is ratchetâs. They are superb tools, but not as fine tooth as a Dual 80, and the finish isnât quite as tough. They just donât feel the same. Iâm more than happy with mine though.
Some of the folks advising KoKen are, I suspect, thinking of their Z Series (often called Zeal in the U/S). This is a totally different range of tools, and I donât think the U.S. distributor does a good job of distinguishing one range from the other, because it's important to know what you are getting.
Z Series are designed to be as compact as possible, and to get the highest performance from a compact tool. Itâs important to understand this, because some folks complain about the sockets being short, or the ratchetâs having handles too small, but that is the whole point of the system.
I have a few Z Series tools, and they are awesome. Functionally, probably even better than Nepros. But⌠I still consider them tools for special purposes, and I wouldnât replace my long / flex Dual 80 with a Z Series ratchet.
Would I supplement my Snap On with Z Series? Oh yes, for sure, but when I use it I use Z Series sockets and accessories together, and I use it when appropriate.
It has to be a 72T Z series, good catch
. I do have a Dual 80 Snappy and a Facom extendable 72T (both flex heads) which are both a bit more heavy duty/chunky, but for tight jobs the Ko-ken is a very nice tool with ultra low backdrag.