Replacing standard breakers with GFCI/AFCI breakers?

[Mike1903]

Looking to replace older breakers with the new ones.
Any issues with putting GFCI/AFCI on circuits with GFCI outlets?
Anything else should I be thinking of so that I am not chasing random tripping of breakers?

It is easier to find dual function breakers at home centers than just GFCI or AFCI and hence, question is about both.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Stacking GFCIs is generally not recommended. what's the point of this exercise? because you can?

 

[FordTruckWench]

Looking to replace older breakers with the new ones.
Anything else should I be thinking of so that I am not chasing random tripping of breakers?

Do you know the routing of all the neutral wires? Remember that with GFCI/AFCI breakers the neutral has to come back to "its" breaker. Before these special breakers existed, a load could be hooked to any convenient neutral and things would work.

For example, consider a room with two independent lights. Both are switched at the door. There could be a single two conductor Romex carrying both switched hots to the first light. One hot simply passes through while the other hooks to the light. Two conductors continue on to the next light. One is the remaining switched hot, the other is used for neutral for the first light. The hot now hooks to the second light. Both lights now need a neutral - and the shortest run might be from a receptacle in the next room. A horrible practice, but hey, once the drywall is up nobody will know!

 

[sparky 1971]

Looking to replace older breakers with the new ones.
Any issues with putting GFCI/AFCI on circuits with GFCI outlets?
Anything else should I be thinking of so that I am not chasing random tripping of breakers?

It is easier to find dual function breakers at home centers than just GFCI or AFCI and hence, question is about both.

Good luck with that one. Why would you want to even entertain the idea of afci in a place where it isn't required? Hell, if I had a place that had afci protection, I think the breakers would have been in the trash long ago and regular style installed after the first nuisance trip.
You can do whatever you want, there is nothing that says you can't have a dual function breaker on a circuit that already has gfci protection. You could also eliminate the gfci receptacle it it's a concern.

 

[Terry D]

Unless you are rewiring your house, adding a room addition or just adding circuits, and they are required because of a permit, I would not put arc fault breakers in. Especially on existing wiring. You could have a neutral touching ground somewhere and make the arc fault trip. Arc faults can be a PITA for nuisance tripping. Cant tell you how many house additions that I have done that required arc fault protection, 6 months later the homeowner removed them. Plus if you have a shared neutral circuit, you would need to get a 2-pole arc fault. Your probably not going to be able to get that from a big box store unless you order them. You would have to go to a supply house. My advice is to leave well enough alone and dont install them. GFCI protection is a different thing, you should have it in all the required locations.

 

[Terry D]

Do you know the routing of all the neutral wires? Remember that with GFCI/AFCI breakers the neutral has to come back to "its" breaker. Before these special breakers existed, a load could be hooked to any convenient neutral and things would work.

For example, consider a room with two independent lights. Both are switched at the door. There could be a single two conductor Romex carrying both switched hots to the first light. One hot simply passes through while the other hooks to the light. Two conductors continue on to the next light. One is the remaining switched hot, the other is used for neutral for the first light. The hot now hooks to the second light. Both lights now need a neutral - and the shortest run might be from a receptacle in the next room. A horrible practice, but hey, once the drywall is up nobody will know!

whoever would install wiring like that, and not run a 3-wire, should be taken out back and dealt with.

 

[exranger06]

Do you know the routing of all the neutral wires? Remember that with GFCI/AFCI breakers the neutral has to come back to "its" breaker. Before these special breakers existed, a load could be hooked to any convenient neutral and things would work.

For example, consider a room with two independent lights. Both are switched at the door. There could be a single two conductor Romex carrying both switched hots to the first light. One hot simply passes through while the other hooks to the light. Two conductors continue on to the next light. One is the remaining switched hot, the other is used for neutral for the first light. The hot now hooks to the second light. Both lights now need a neutral - and the shortest run might be from a receptacle in the next room. A horrible practice, but hey, once the drywall is up nobody will know!

If I had janky wiring like that in my house, I'd want it fixed regardless. If I wasn't aware of it until I tried installing an arc fault breaker, then that breaker just did me a favor by making me aware.

 

[Mike1903]

Thank you for the inputs, exactly what I was looking for.

To answer some of the questions:

1. The point of this exercise is to add GFCI protection to some circuits that don’t have it. Instead of swapping outlets, breaker is an easier change.
Also, I have seen questionable wiring done by previous owner and wanted to put AFCI to see what trips and then try to troubleshoot it

2. Big boxes don’t carry Eaton ch GFCI only breakers but do carry dual fault ones. I suppose I could check local electrical supply places for the GFCI only breakers.

 

[billconner]

Mike1903 - first, if 1903 is your birth year, my hats off to you!

I redid my kitchen with permit and any 15 or 20 circuit I touched had to be upgraded with AFCI breakers. I used arc fault breakers but used GFCI receptacles where required. Combination of 1990s romex and new romex. I have not had any problems with tripping. Separating neutrals in full panel just took a little time.

I have wondered if it would have been easier and/or less expensive to have added a sub panel for the 11 circuits upgraded. I assume the separate neutral wiring is simpler than the pigtails on the retrofit breakers, and panel is full. (2 others in house are not full, so not as bad as it sounds.)

 

[Mike1903]

Mike1903 - first, if 1903 is your birth year, my hats off to you!

I redid my kitchen with permit and any 15 or 20 circuit I touched had to be upgraded with AFCI breakers. I used arc fault breakers but used GFCI receptacles where required. Combination of 1990s romex and new romex. I have not had any problems with tripping. Separating neutrals in full panel just took a little time.

I have wondered if it would have been easier and/or less expensive to have added a sub panel for the 11 circuits upgraded. I assume the separate neutral wiring is simpler than the pigtails on the retrofit breakers, and panel is full. (2 others in house are not full, so not as bad as it sounds.)

Ha, thanks. Don’t think I will be lucky to live that long (and neither do I want to).

That’s my old man’s year of birth, the greatest generation ever.