Repurposing Stove Circuit?

[Angelfire]

Hiya,
I'm considering the purchase of a 230V espresso machine. The only source of 240V in the kitchen is the unused feed for the stove. I know this circuit is to be dedicated per code (pretty sure anyway) and is grossly over-rated for what I need but was wondering if it's "Legal" to extend this circuit and add proper overcurrent protection that matches the new appliance? The current 50A, 240V receptacle is unused as we use a gas stove vs. electric. I suspect the answer is no but thought I'd ask just to be certain.

Running a new circuit to the kitchen is probably in order (not all that easy to get there unfortunately).

Cheers.

 

[American Locomotive]

install the correct size breaker, install the correct size outlet, and splice the original stove feed to the new outlet using a properly rated connector.

 

[Angelfire]

That would be the plan but my main question is whether it violates code By effectively removing the stove receptacle?

 

[pattenp]

That would be the plan but my main question is whether it violates code By effectively removing the stove receptacle?

Nope.

 

[Angelfire]

Ok. That's good news. I would plan to remove the stove receptacle and make my splice in the box there and put a cover over it. That way if someone ever wanted to convert it back for use as a stove receptacle, they'd recognize the splice leading to a lower rated branch was there and would need to be removed (well, hopefully they'd remove it.... ).

Thanks for the help.
Cheers.

 

[grantw]

If the current outlet is 50A the wire size is going to be ~6AWG. Depending on what size outlet the espresso machine takes, cramming 6awg wire in a outlet not rated for it, will be a problem.

using the existing 6awg wire in the wall is a non-issue as long as you down-size the breaker for that circuit and the outlet you get on the end of it.

Do you have specs on the machine? I had a 240V 30A outlet installed in my kitchen remodel expecting to get a decent machine, but I never got around to it. The new place, I'll have a nice coffee bar in the garage, plumbed in too

 

[Angelfire]

I won't be running 6ga to the receptacle for the machine. I'll splice into the 6ga with whatever I need to feed the espresso machine (probably 15A or perhaps 20A....haven't looked at specs yet). The splice would be in the box that currently houses the unused stove receptacle which will be removed and then covered. The 12ga (most likely) would then run to a box for the receptacle serving the espresso machine.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I won't be running 6ga to the receptacle for the machine. I'll splice into the 6ga with whatever I need to feed the espresso machine (probably 15A or perhaps 20A....haven't looked at specs yet). The splice would be in the box that currently houses the unused stove receptacle which will be removed and then covered. The 12ga (most likely) would then run to a box for the receptacle serving the espresso machine.

If you use reduced size wire, dont forget to swap out the 50a breaker with one of appropriate rating.

 

[PugetDude]

I did this on a remodel. We abandoned a 50 Amp stove circuit in a basement kitchenette, cut the wire halfway to the stove in an unfinished storage room and routed it into a new subpanel. Normal wiring from there. Gave us more flexibility than just a dedicated de-rated outlet.

 

[Angelfire]

If you use reduced size wire, dont forget to swap out the 50a breaker with one of appropriate rating.

Without a doubt!

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have an older home with a fuse box (if it ain't broke, don't fix it !). I re-purposed my stove circuit. Biggest problem was finding the cartridge fuse adapters from 50A to 20A. Been using it for over 30 years.

 

[dogdog]

Can't you just get a 120V model ?

or

a properly rated up converter? unless it draws 50A 240V.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Can't you just get a 120V model ?

or

a properly rated up converter? unless it draws 50A 240V.

The voltage doesnt need to be converted since the machine is for 240v. He just needs correctly sized overcurrent protection.

 

[grantw]

Can't you just get a 120V model ?

or

a properly rated up converter? unless it draws 50A 240V.

Clearly you have never owned a good espresso machine.

Actually, to convert down to 120V and back up to 240 is going to be a huge efficiency loss. It's possible yes, but now you will need a up-converter that can handle resistive loads at huge amperages at 120V. Not really that practical.

if his machine is rated for 20A @ 240V , that will be 40A @ 120V and with loss through the conversion cycles, maybe even 50A @ 120V... at that point, he'll need 6awg wire... which he already has. The up-converters work, but get out of hand quickly with high loads.

 

[johnnyradiant]

Clearly you have never owned a good espresso machine. .......

Isn't a good espresso machine just a clean tablespoon to get the powder out of the little tub of espresso instant coffee you buy in the grocery store?

If I ever can get outta the current place I have my dream coffee bar on the drawing board, and best of all my wife is onboard too, 'cause I'm not sure how I could sneak that not so little purchase through 'the books' otherwise. Of course I'll have a whip cream fridge to for the mochas served.

 

[mike93lx]

just make sure that you leave the splice accessible (don't hide it in a wall), and if the current wire is aluminum, get the proper splices to join with copper.

 

[ard]

I had a mobile home on the property when we were building, fed it with a 50A sub from the house panel.

When I installed landscape lights, I used the 3 wires to supply two different light circuits (bollards and spots). It's funny looking at #6 copper spliced to #12.... And yes, a 20A breaker was installed. Used a split bolts at both ends- in the panel the 20A breaker wouldn't accept #6. Go figure....

On the bright side, the voltage drop is only 0.000007%

 

[dogdog]

Clearly you have never owned a good espresso machine.

.............s.

LMFAO... they say coffee is a gateway drug to expresso... I am not at that level there yet.... shsss the things we do for expresso...

 

[Angelfire]

Haven't bought a machine but part of making my decision was to sort out the voltage question. Using a 120V unit obviously makes things very easy but I'm looking at 230V units given a serious possibility that we may move back to Ireland in a few years.

 

[grantw]

Haven't bought a machine but part of making my decision was to sort out the voltage question. Using a 120V unit obviously makes things very easy but I'm looking at 230V units given a serious possibility that we may move back to Ireland in a few years.

keep in mind North american units are basing internal timers and other things on a L-L 240V @ 60Hz, an EU spec machine is L-N 230V @ 50Hz.

It all depends on too many factors.

 

[Angelfire]

The machines I'm looking at show 50-60Hz and 220-240V so it shouldn't be an issue. Similar ranges are spec'ed for 120V.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

keep in mind North american units are basing internal timers and other things on a L-L 240V @ 60Hz, an EU spec machine is L-N 230V @ 50Hz.

It all depends on too many factors.

With digital power supplies these days, both 50hz and 60hz are ok.

 

[sberry]

This is another case of a poor shortcut. Learn to run a new wire for the new equipment vs a boogered shortcut with an old one and a bunch of extra connections which may never be worth a toot anyway. The fact that it isn't always real easy is why they don't have women and children do it.

 

[850xpeps]

This is another case of a poor shortcut. Learn to run a new wire for the new equipment vs a boogered shortcut with an old one and a bunch of extra connections which may never be worth a toot anyway. The fact that it isn't always real easy is why they don't have women and children do it.

How's is that a poor shortcut? You don't have any junctions in your house? Maybe your wife(if you have one) should learn you something lol

If he does it right all is good.

 

[sberry]

It may be, it may be old wire, we don't know. But learning to run a wire is a good life skill and no point in trying to fasten a couple 12's to a 6 if there is a decent way to run a single cable, especially one as reasonable cost as a 12.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This is another case of a poor shortcut. Learn to run a new wire for the new equipment vs a boogered shortcut with an old one and a bunch of extra connections which may never be worth a toot anyway. The fact that it isn't always real easy is why they don't have women and children do it.

A poor shortcut based on what code?

 

[sberry]

It isn't a code issue but,,, really to some guys on this forum that should know better. This is at them and not the op,, but as was said above, provided its done right etc, provided its not an old alum wire but to recommend to an amateur that has to ask this question to add 2 jboxes to an old wire with splices of drastic different sizes if there is a better way to do it is poor practice even though its code compliant.

 

[Angelfire]

Considering my option to run a new wire over is pretty limited (either in the ground, under pavers etc, over the house, or through multiple walls), I'm willing to take the "shortcut" if it can be done safely and no codes are broken.

 

[sberry]

Yes, its code legal. If you use a metal jbox it needs to be grounded.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This is another case of a poor shortcut. Learn to run a new wire for the new equipment vs a boogered shortcut with an old one and a bunch of extra connections which may never be worth a toot anyway. The fact that it isn't always real easy is why they don't have women and children do it.

I guess youre unaware that there are quite a few journeyman and licensed FEMALE electricians out there... smh sexist much?

It isn't a code issue but,,, really to some guys on this forum that should know better. This is at them and not the op,, but as was said above, provided its done right etc, provided its not an old alum wire but to recommend to an amateur that has to ask this question to add 2 jboxes to an old wire with splices of drastic different sizes if there is a better way to do it is poor practice even though its code compliant.

Thats the thing. Not everyone has the option to run a new wire.

And since its not against code and if installed properly, there is nothing wrong with it.

Maybe we should ask from the get-go if a new wire run is possible? If not, then no point in posting 3 separate comments about how its not good practice to do so even though code is not violated. If a wire run is not possible, then there is no other better practice....

 

[MikeF2316]

This is another case of a poor shortcut. Learn to run a new wire for the new equipment vs a boogered shortcut with an old one and a bunch of extra connections which may never be worth a toot anyway. The fact that it isn't always real easy is why they don't have women and children do it.

Nice post! (He said sarcastically) Way to insult more than half the population. Why do a bunch of unnecessary work and spend a bunch of unnecessary money?

 

[sberry]

@ He said in the original post that it may be best to run a new wire but it may be difficult. That was vague as were the other details. All we know is that it is unused, we don't know how old it is, we don't know the condition of the wire or the type, we don't know if it's impossible for simply difficult.
As a general practice this hack replaces old wire if it's reasonably practical as a first option. Secondly wouldn't offer up 2 cents worth till I knew more details and third most journeyman women likely have a bit more thick skin than some pathetic types here and probably can defend themselves.

 

[sberry]

I think there should be more women in the trades but the truth is despite all the incentives most don't want it and a lot cant. It's like football to some extent, is it sexist?
I have a woman that works for me in a hard job, out works men but it's not typical. It would be a different comment I made in a different context if 50 percent of the workers were women but they are not.
I actually do know 1 master, she is capable and then some, top hand and a pusher, runs crews.
When I was in Ironworkers I don't recall a single woman in the local. Was on a powerhouse with 1000s of men, a few women in inspection, a nurse and 2 or 3 in the trades.
There seems to be another reality about it. The middle ground seems to be open in the sense that 2 types do this work, 1 that are the absolute best and the other float along the bottom.

 

[sberry]

I got friends that work at the paper mill, said they got 1 woman that can do anything, 5 that can't do much. Fire depts found this to be true too. There is an apptitude test so it levels the field in regards to brains. My bud says race isn't a factor, one man is as good as another, said the women have more problems, many simply not strong enough.
I will certainly listen to contrary opinions here from any women on the forum especially journeman electricians. I can be convinced.

 

[sberry]

Again this has nothing to do with the OP but I can almost see it, soon we will see a thread,,, look at what a hack that hooked up this ratty old wire. We will forget someone told him this was ok.
The wire could be fine too, could be fine too, the boxes could be grounded, seems some genius types forgot that detail along the way.

 

[Angelfire]

@ He said in the original post that it may be best to run a new wire but it may be difficult. That was vague as were the other details. All we know is that it is unused, we don't know how old it is, we don't know the condition of the wire or the type, we don't know if it's impossible for simply difficult.
As a general practice this hack replaces old wire if it's reasonably practical as a first option. Secondly wouldn't offer up 2 cents worth till I knew more details and third most journeyman women likely have a bit more thick skin than some pathetic types here and probably can defend themselves.

My original post was appropriately vague in terms of existing conditions etc... because that wasn't my question. My one and only question was whether it violated code to repurpose a stove circuit. Others started chiming in on the mechanics of it, and while appreciated, it wasn't what I asked. At some point, I may come back to ask questions pertaining to the install but for now, it was simply to get confirmation whether this was even an option for me.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I think there should be more women in the trades but the truth is despite all the incentives most don't want it and a lot cant. It's like football to some extent, is it sexist?

Still very few women in engineering or IT. I don't really understand why after all these years. A women does have to have above average self confidence to "make it" in these male dominated roles.

 

[jblnut]

Threads like this make me giggle like a girl scout. Someone asks an honest and well thought out question, people give informative (but sometimes off track) answers and the OP gets the info needed. But wait !!! There's always one awful school cook that needs to come in and stir the pot to make sure it is getting done "just right" ..... Things get off track and people get sore buttholes and nothing gets accomplished other than someone's post counts go up which is a rather neat side effect of posing multiple times in a row.

I guess it is rather helpful after all to criticise not only the members on here constantly but an entire gender. I guess why not ?? It really makes people want to stick around on such a wonderful and informative site. GJ has given me TONS of helpful ideas around the shop and many other areas of life as well.

My grandmother always said "If you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all!!" I guess it must be nice to hid behind a keyboard and thump away at the keys and pretend to be an all knowing being. I wonder how many people stumble onto this site from a simple Google search and think "Hey, this is a neat site !!" and never join up and contribute because they get scared away by the harsh and rather rude posts in the most helpful sections of this forum.

I usually type these kind of replies because it feels good to see my thoughts typed out but end up deleting them because I am your typical non-confrontational mid-westerner but I decided to hit "post" on this one. Not sure why but it happened.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Threads like this make me giggle like a girl scout. Someone asks an honest and well thought out question, people give informative (but sometimes off track) answers and the OP gets the info needed. But wait !!! There's always one awful school cook that needs to come in and stir the pot to make sure it is getting done "just right" ..... Things get off track and people get sore buttholes and nothing gets accomplished other than someone's post counts go up which is a rather neat side effect of posing multiple times in a row.

I guess it is rather helpful after all to criticise not only the members on here constantly but an entire gender. I guess why not ?? It really makes people want to stick around on such a wonderful and informative site. GJ has given me TONS of helpful ideas around the shop and many other areas of life as well.

My grandmother always said "If you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all!!" I guess it must be nice to hid behind a keyboard and thump away at the keys and pretend to be an all knowing being. I wonder how many people stumble onto this site from a simple Google search and think "Hey, this is a neat site !!" and never join up and contribute because they get scared away by the harsh and rather rude posts in the most helpful sections of this forum.

I usually type these kind of replies because it feels good to see my thoughts typed out but end up deleting them because I am your typical non-confrontational mid-westerner but I decided to hit "post" on this one. Not sure why but it happened.

Many of us were taken back by a certain member's rantings.

And yes, theres a reason he has a 23K+ post count.

If i have an additional thought, i usually hit edit and add it to the current one unless someone has commented below it.

 

[sberry]

So, nothing really useful to add?