Respirator advice

[ChuckP]

I need to re-clear a carbon fiber hood on my car one of these days. I'll be picking up a decent HVLP to tackle this project. I've been educating myself on respirators over the past few days and had a few questions. I've been eyeing this 3M half mask. What do you guys think? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004Z4EB/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It seems like it should do the trick as long as I'm not spraying urethane paints containing isocyanates? What clear (preferably a matte clear) do you guys recommend? Are they all pretty much the same? Should I just grab a quart of Duplicolor and call it a day?

When I'm not spraying paint and just need something for particulates, can I just use the prefilters with this adapter? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009POHIRK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It seems like a cheaper way to go as opposed to buying http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00328IAO0/?tag=atomicindus08-20


appreciate any advice/guidance. thanks.

 

[Hammer1963]

Any catalysed clear will require a GOOD respirator. While the unit you have listed will provide you with some protection, provided you have proper ventilation, an air supplied system is best for Isoscyanates

If you plan on doing this job one time and want it to last, you will need a Urethane product.
I prefer Glasurit 923-447, an HS Clear that is highly scratch-resistant and can be used with a flattening agent that will give you the sheen you are looking for. This is an ideal clear for hoods.

 

[mustanginky]

that mask will filter out iso's. it's p95. someone correct me if i'm wrong but that's what i discovered when i painted my hood. i used the same mask. just make sure you use a p95 filter.

 

[ChuckP]

Any catalysed clear will require a GOOD respirator. While the unit you have listed will provide you with some protection, provided you have proper ventilation, an air supplied system is best for Isoscyanates

If you plan on doing this job one time and want it to last, you will need a Urethane product.
I prefer Glasurit 923-447, an HS Clear that is highly scratch-resistant and can be used with a flattening agent that will give you the sheen you are looking for. This is an ideal clear for hoods.

Would you spray a urethane clear with the half mask I linked? In a garage with the door wide open? Or is it not worth the health risk?

I don't want to drop the coin on a supplied air mask, since this is a one time deal.

How long would a non catalyzed clear last on average?

Maybe I should just have a local sop spray it for me?

thanks.

 

[thightower]

To me as long as it fits well and made of good quality any should be fine. Just make sure you have the right filters for the application.

 

[MP&C]

The hardener for your clear will also contain isocyantes. You have more to worry about than just inhalation. Iso's can also be absorbed through the skin, and are especially attracted to moisture, such as that found in your eyes. So in addition to respiratory protection, you also would want to cover your body (tyvek suit, or at a minimum, long sleeves, and nitrile gloves) and protect your eyes, so you would be better suited using a full face mask over the half mask..... I would not recommend the half mask, finding out one's sensitivity to iso's the hard way is not a good way to go...

Having said all that, non-catalyzed clear will not have the UV resistance to hold up for long. Spray the good stuff, or if worried about iso's, spend the coin for a local shop to do it for you.

 

[RMR&C]

I have painted hundreds of cars in the last 25 years using only a respirator like that....maybe not the smartest thing to do, but I am still alive and according to my doc, in pretty good health.
I still use them for painting or priming small jobs where I don't want to "suit up". I do have a paint booth with good airflow though...
Your results may vary....

 

[tcianci]

DIY auto finishing is one of the things that's starting to get out of hand for the average guy. When you look at the cost of the PPE, spray equipment and products and factor in your time, it quickly eclipses what a reasonable shop will do it for. On the other hand, if you have an ongoing project or think you will be doing stuff repeatedly, consider the equipment as an investment. I just invested in a reasonably good primer gun and did all of my own priming and blocking for my truck. I used a non-iso polyester product and then sent it off to a shop for the topcoat. I saved mega bucks on the project but I did have the initial investment.

 

[AndyA]

3M makes an adapter that fits the disposable half-masks and converts them to supplied air. It's still pricy for just a piece of hose and simple plastic twist-on connectors. I think it's roughly $150. This setup isn't designed to be demand regulated. You just put a valve inline and adjust it to keep positive pressure in the mask at all times. You'll be wasting a lot of air you don't breathe.

You'll still need something to supply the air. I've considered a cheap oil-less compressor with some post filtering. Probably not OSHA approved, but IMHO better than sniffing paint fumes.

I don't do much painting, but I do a lot of welding. I've been using the P95 and P100 filters. They are designed for welding, but I don't trust that they do enough. Lots of times I'll weld on stuff that's galvanized or painted. You can grind it off where you weld (the P95/P100 would probably work ok on grinding dust), but the workpiece seems to get hot all over and still make fumes (which I'm not sure the filters work well on).

 

[MitchL]

The best bang for the buck would be the half mask you have listed, and a "combination" filter organic vapour (Solvents aeromatics)/ P100 (Particulate) filter. Like this one;
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0091JK2G8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Falcon67]

I personally use one similar to this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P18N4Y/?tag=atomicindus08-20

If I was shooting anything like what you will, I'd vent like crazy and wear a full suit with head sock. Those are pretty cheap at the paint store. Cheaper than medical care by far. I have shot a hood with plenty of venting with just the face mask, but I only use two stage paint on the race cars. No clear.

 

[ChuckP]

DIY auto finishing is one of the things that's starting to get out of hand for the average guy. When you look at the cost of the PPE, spray equipment and products and factor in your time, it quickly eclipses what a reasonable shop will do it for. On the other hand, if you have an ongoing project or think you will be doing stuff repeatedly, consider the equipment as an investment. I just invested in a reasonably good primer gun and did all of my own priming and blocking for my truck. I used a non-iso polyester product and then sent it off to a shop for the topcoat. I saved mega bucks on the project but I did have the initial investment.

Seriously. I'm having second thoughts now. I'll check with a few local body shops as to how much i'm looking at paying, if I do all the prep.

I pretty much have always wanted to pick up an HVLP gun, mainly just to mess around with. Now that this hood needs to be re-cleared, it was the perfect excuse.

I'm curious how well non polyurethane clears last? Should I even consider something like a Duplicolor clear coat? Or am I just wasting my time?

And to think I was all set on picking up a Sharpe FX3000 and a 3M mask, lol. I don't plan on spraying any other auto body panels. This would just be for whatever needs some some fresh paint. Projects here and there. Where would you browse non iso containing paints for sale? Any links?

 

[shannonw]

agree on what the others have said. My .02, i'd hire it out if that's all you have to do or bits of projects here and there. I got into the same situation painting my outboards and a few other things, wanted 2k due to the sun/salt environment. I figured how hard can this be right (usual **** that gets me in trouble)

I did go a bit all out but found really good deals. sas pump, tvyek, full face mask,etc.

full face is uncomfortable as **** and really hard to see out of when you're not in a ventilated booth. Ended up with a hood, very comfortable (needed a bigger sas pump which i found a deal on as well). Then really..you should get an air flow meter unless you're the trusting type to test your pump hood flow.

So after that you get a couple guns, you start prepping and painting. Next thing you gotta deal with the over spray so you run around covering stuff or rigging up plastic...in a home garage for small projects it so much to setup and break down. Another bad part... is lighting, you will not have enough lighting. So you'll be spraying with **** light, overspray in the air and looking out a lens which isn't exactly super clarity. When the lighting is good though it's not bad to see.

Gets old really fast unless you have the space.

Then here's the kicker, after you blow the cash on your materials (paint,oil and grease remover, etc which aint cheap). if you screwup you get to do it again =) I bet since initially painting my outboards i've repainted every part twice lol due to not likeing how it looked.

Now i'm smart i let em look like hell =)

i'd hire it out next time unless i had the space or a really large or ongoing project and even then if you care about going through all that trouble, i think it's quicker to let someone already with the skillset do it and get it right the first time.

Though for small stuff , touchup, certainly wouldn't be too much trouble. I shoot gelcoat and some aluminum dash panels here and there as with a fan it doesn't create that much mess. But really i bet you can educate yourself on paint,etc run down the street say here's my part here's some primer, paint, it's already sand blasted, prepped, etc shoot this for me, and you're done.

 

[ronnyg801]

I work in the collision repair industry, outside sales for a body shop supply. You wouldn't believe how many techs use that identical half mask for ALL of their painting duties. Yes most have spray booths which exhaust most solvents and over spray quickly but there still is a good amount of exposure.

There is a fair amount of focus on Iso's in this discussion and a good bit of knowledge but the solvents are bad for you as well. Your skin as mentioned above will absorb not only isocyanates but the solvents as well. In fact if you put your right index finger in solvent (think lacquer thinner) while a blood test was being done out of your left hand, it would be detectable in about ten seconds. Your body is also very resilient... limited exposure should leave no long term or short term affects to speak of with the proper PPE.

Even the duplicolor paint will leave you exposed to dangerous chemicals, almost all automotive paint uses solvent as a transfer medium, in atleast one part of the process. Not counting waterborne or based products here, he wont be using those.

More often than not exposure to both isocyanates and solvents do not cause acute affects with this type of exposure, (especially in such a limited use of products) it is usually chronic exposure (over time) that problems arise, IF problems arise.

I know some guys who are 70+ who have been painting over 40 years and never used more than a dust mask (this was common place back in the day and it stuck). While I wouldn't deem them HEALTHY (all that pop in to my head are also heavy drinkers and smokers) they are still very active in the industry and alive and kicking. I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS EITHER

Dont let this scare you away though, I am a huge DIYer and have been using nothing more than a half mask for about ten years, along with the limited exposure I get from my store and calling on shops. I am also very physically active and have never felt better or pushed my lungs as hard as I did this summer riding my bicycle.

Another good point was made, DIY love aside, by the time you buy your PPE, spray gun, a good catalyzed clear and the proper prepping materials a GOOD shop that would warrantee their work would probably have a very competitive price in comparison.

Personally, I say find your local body shop supply pick up your respirator, prep materials and a quart of GOOD clear and clear a warrantable shop uses (your jobber will know exactly what you are talking about if you tell them this, if they don't GO TO ANOTHER JOBBER) You wont reap the benefits of the warrantee but a major manufacturer wouldn't put the warrantee on it if it didnt work.

 

[1967lemans]

When I was performing respirator fit tests and training for my painters, I issued either a 3M 6800 or 7800S for touch up painting. (We also had air supplied)
Both can be found for around 100 bucks a piece.
For filters I issued an Organic Vapor cartridge and a P100 filter. 3M 60921.
For occasional home use the half face should be fine, but keep in mind as stated, iso's can be absorbed through the skin.

 

[ChuckP]

Thanks much for all the advice. I'll have to do more research on the subject as well as call around for pricing before i commit. Seems it's a lot more involved that I initially thought. Isn't that always the case though. Originally I thought I could get by on a harbour freight $15 HVLP, a half mask, and a $20 quart of Duplicolor clear. lol. Not that I couldn't, but I'm sure you get what you pay for when it comes to spraying paint. I'm no fan of cutting corners either, especially when it comes to health. Thanks again. great forum you guys have here.

 

[K13]

The other thing I will add is if you are going with a matte finish you have to spray it perfectly for it to look good no runs, no dust nothing wrong. Lots of guys think matte finishes are easier to spray but in realiy they are not as you cannot easily fix mistakes like runs,dust nibs etc. because you cannot color sand and polish out imperfections or you will lose the matte finish.

 

[Falcon67]

So after that you get a couple guns, you start prepping and painting. Next thing you gotta deal with the over spray so you run around covering stuff or rigging up plastic...in a home garage for small projects it so much to setup and break down. Another bad part... is lighting, you will not have enough lighting. So you'll be spraying with **** light, overspray in the air and looking out a lens which isn't exactly super clarity. When the lighting is good though it's not bad to see.

FWIW - I painted my race car with a conventional gun, in a home made booth with two 20" fans supplying air in and using the big door as exhaust. I had no trouble seeing with the mask. But yes, overspray settled everywhere.

I reshot the hood a couple year later (needs it again) for a new hood scoop and did that with a new HVLP gun. I shot it in an open shed and just watered the floor. There was very little overspray. That is the only gun I've used since.

Three coats of 2 stage Fulthane white with almost zero cleanup (except the gun). That's about $60 worth of materials (enough to mix, thin and cat off a quart) when it was done. Probably much more now.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I have the same mask in your first link and it works for me. I know alot of the guys around here use that same mask too.

While it may not be all of what you need, it's better than nothing or a simple paper mask.