Rest In Peace Dewalt Flexvolt.

[protegeV]

I'm new around here, but is there some type of Keyboard Commando award that I'm not aware of up for grabs on this site?

 

[kctyphoon]

You only answered one of my 3 questions. Union linesman though eh? so basically you stand around with a half dozen other people looking at a pole?

This is absolutely NOT the case and I am greatly offended by this accusation. USUALLY at least one guy is working, and MAYBE 3 of us are standing around arguing with each other about how we could do it better than him.

And remind me keyboard engineers - where is it posted that the battery is PRODUCING or TOOL, is PRODUCING 15 amps ? I vaguely remember posting the new tools are are advertised as producing the power of a 15 amp corded tool.... Obviously - that's a performance comparison, and not a claim "these are 15 amp tools" - or do ya wanna keep posting equations as you misunderstand advertising claims? Lol

And 18v nicad Bosch guy - I wasn't kidding or being sarcastic - if you love your 18v nicad Bosch stuff - I WILL sell you the lightly used Bosch stuff I have...

 

[BikerDad]

This is a Public Service Announcement. Dear Dewalt - Your short time in the spotlight has come to an end. The 2018 Milwaukee NPS has basically issued you an eviction notice. You have till September to vacate the premise. Please feel free to create yet ANOTHER new battery platform. It was nice knowing ya.

keep dreaming...

 

[BikerDad]

I just bought a backpack leaf blower. It runs on GAS. I looked at battery and none came close on power but with 2 of those battery "bricks" plugged in, to get any kind of run time, it was just as heavy. There is a spec. called energy density and gas has a lot more than a battery, though the gap has closed a lot in recent years.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

But, battery powered tools tend to be quieter, AND the CARB bozos and their ilk have a real big head start at killing tool joy over the anti-battery people. not that I really get the whole OPE thing anyway, the closest thing to OPE that I have is my DeWalt XR 20v blower, which I use for my shop and driveway.

 

[ItsNemo]

This is absolutely NOT the case and I am greatly offended by this accusation. USUALLY at least one guy is working, and MAYBE 3 of us are standing around arguing with each other about how we could do it better than him.

And remind me keyboard engineers - where is it posted that the battery is PRODUCING or TOOL, is PRODUCING 15 amps ? I vaguely remember posting the new tools are are advertised as producing the power of a 15 amp corded tool.... Obviously - that's a performance comparison, and not a claim "these are 15 amp tools" - or do ya wanna keep posting equations as you misunderstand advertising claims? Lol

And 18v nicad Bosch guy - I wasn't kidding or being sarcastic - if you love your 18v nicad Bosch stuff - I WILL sell you the lightly used Bosch stuff I have...

LOL that sounds about right.

A 15 amp tool's performance is characterized by using approximately 1800 watts of energy...to get that much energy out of a cordless tool at 18v means 100 amps. It's simple math. The efficiency of the motor does come into play, so sure a 15 amp brushed tool vs a brand new top of the line brushless tool might mean the real equivalent is 10 amps of current draw (figure 33% more efficient)...still means 65+ amps of draw from the battery.

 

[Ign]

I get you are a fan of Milwaukee. But part of the problem here is as you stated that Milwaukee discontinues models after 3 years. I am still using my Bosch 18v Nicad kit going on 12 years. I use them in my business and have all the tools for the 18 volt system. I have 4 of the one drill alone. Only thing I have had to replace is one charger and one of the drills and one battery are getting a little shakey.
Now if my equipment choice would have been “M” you are saying I could have changed out my kit up to 4 times. I’m not a fan of either D or M but will choose a company that is not always changing it up. Get it right the first time and keep your customers cash in their pocket.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Discontinuing a specific tool and discontinuing a platform are two VERY VERY different things.

It's like this: the Pontiac in your avatar has been discontinued. Gasoline has not.

Likewise, Milwaukee will update an M12 or M18 tool (as will any manufacturer), but the M12 or M18 platform remains and the batteries still work.

Those running around with fears about things changing are at the very least exaggerating - M18 has been around since '05 or '06 and shows absolutely no sign of going away anytime soon.

According to Milwaukee, the one reason they're working to just pull more amps out of 18 volts is exactly so that their consumers can stay with the same platform (source: Toolguyd.com)

That said, I don't think DeWalt's FlexVolt approach was all that egregious; a 60V battery is backward compatible and effectively becomes a 20V (which is really 18V if you strip away the marketing speak) when used on a "20V" tool.

I hate DeWalt for my own reasons but I think FlexVolt is kinda cool and don't think they did much -if any - disservice to their consumers when they introduced that platform because it arguably dovetails with the existing 20V line.

 

[American Locomotive]

And remind me keyboard engineers - where is it posted that the battery is PRODUCING or TOOL, is PRODUCING 15 amps ? I vaguely remember posting the new tools are are advertised as producing the power of a 15 amp corded tool.... Obviously - that's a performance comparison, and not a claim "these are 15 amp tools" - or do ya wanna keep posting equations as you misunderstand advertising claims? Lol

A 15A 120v tool has a motor that consumes 1800 watts of electrical power, and the majority of that power gets transformed into mechanical work. 1800 watts of electrical power at 18 volts is 100 amps.

Earlier you said that Milwaukee claims their new M18 chainsaw has as much power as a "40cc gasoline saw". Well Stihl's 42cc saw generates over 3HP. 3HP is 2238 watts of power, or 125 amps of current at 18 volts assuming a 100% efficient motor.

 

[thesilverone]

I'm new around here, but is there some type of Keyboard Commando award that I'm not aware of up for grabs on this site?

OP is the milwaukee keyboard warrior

 

[PelicanPines]

My garage happily has both Dewalt 20v and Milwaukee M12's... they get along just fine.

 

[WWheeler]

[...] That said, I don't think DeWalt's FlexVolt approach was all that egregious; a 60V battery is backward compatible and effectively becomes a 20V (which is really 18V if you strip away the marketing speak) when used on a "20V" tool.

I hate DeWalt for my own reasons but I think FlexVolt is kinda cool and don't think they did much -if any - disservice to their consumers when they introduced that platform because it arguably dovetails with the existing 20V line.

^This, and also worth mentioning is Dewalt's 20V-to-18V adapter that lets you use Li-Ion batteries in older Ni-Cad 18V tools bridged their main platforms, old and new, together. I've got a fair bit of 20V tools now (no FlexV yet tho - I've little need for a cordless table saw or chainsaw or the like but for those that do Dewalt's Flexvolt is all over whatever Milwaukee can squeeze out of their 18V.), but on top of that my old ~20yr old 18V stuff is still going strong also.

I obviously like Dewalt, but I like Milwaukee too. I've got their M12 cordless ratchets (1/4 & 3/8) and I absolutley luv them. I'll probably be getting an M12 rotary tool also in the near future. That said, Dewalt tools have been really good to me for more than 30 years now, and especially with cordless tools once you get started on a platform, as long as it doesn't disappoint you, it makes most 'cents' to expand with it.

 

[kctyphoon]

I will satisfy the Dewalt guys and say this - "DEWALT IS A GREAT OPTION" - (when there is no Milwaukee)

How about this as a new slogan "DEWALT - for when there is no Milwaukee"
Kinda like "Diet Pepsi - for when there is no Diet Coke"

 

[kctyphoon]

A 15A 120v tool has a motor that consumes 1800 watts of electrical power, and the majority of that power gets transformed into mechanical work. 1800 watts of electrical power at 18 volts is 100 amps.

Earlier you said that Milwaukee claims their new M18 chainsaw has as much power as a "40cc gasoline saw". Well Stihl's 42cc saw generates over 3HP. 3HP is 2238 watts of power, or 125 amps of current at 18 volts assuming a 100% efficient motor.

Show me the mathematical equation for, - my cordless saw cuts faster than your corded saw.

 

[PelicanPines]

I will satisfy the Dewalt guys and say this - DEWALT IS A GREAT OPTION - (when there is no Milwaukee)

How about this as a new slogan "DEWALT - for when there is no Milwaukee"
Kinda like "Diet Pepsi - for when there is no Diet Coke"

KC... I will add...

Buy Dewalt if you can't afford the better Milwaukee version.

 

[kctyphoon]

Shhh.... don't tell anyone you agree with me.. they won't like you.. lol

 

[PelicanPines]

They already don't like me.

I thought the discussion was well done... heavy with what sounded like facts.

 

[finn]

I wonder why?

 

[kctyphoon]

I wonder why?

Cause facts don't care about your feelings??

I was about to buy a 12v max tire inflator - but for some reason I cant find it online now..

 

[American Locomotive]

Show me the mathematical equation for, - my cordless saw cuts faster than your corded saw.

Yeah, it's HP = (RPM*Torque)/5252, 1HP = 746 Watts, and Watts = Volts*Amps. You need the horsepower to cut faster, you need the electrical watts to back that horsepower up, and you need the outrageous currents to back that power up at low voltage. Math and physics do not lie, but Milwaukee's marketing department sure does. Their high-current 18v platform is a poor compromise that is just going to lead to overly expensive tools with poor durability, longevity and efficiency.

 

[kctyphoon]

I think this is it : Milwaukee>Dewalt

 

[WittHay]

That said, I don't think DeWalt's FlexVolt approach was all that egregious; a 60V battery is backward compatible and effectively becomes a 20V (which is really 18V if you strip away the marketing speak) when used on a "20V" tool.

I hate DeWalt for my own reasons but I think FlexVolt is kinda cool and don't think they did much -if any - disservice to their consumers when they introduced that platform because it arguably dovetails with the existing 20V line.

Same thought I have, guys with DeWalt can upgrade to a more powerful 60V grinder or saw and use the same battery on their 20 volt stuff

Going the other way, on high end tools like mitre saws you can run 2 60V packs for 120V and use the same saw on cordless 120V or standard 115/120V AC power

 

[Farmall450]

You only answered one of my 3 questions. Union linesman though eh? so basically you stand around with a half dozen other people looking at a pole?

I'm new around here, but is there some type of Keyboard Commando award that I'm not aware of up for grabs on this site?

More or less.
IBTL

 

[kctyphoon]

Has there been any recent Flexvolt.Expansion? They should be pumping stuff out for that line. If the higher voltage is so much better, where the competition killing 1/2" flexvolt impact wrench you'd assume would be a sure entry.

 

[GTO]

More or less.
IBTL

Yes,please do us all a favor and lock this up.....please

 

[American Locomotive]

The battery platform does not dictate the tools - the tools dictate the battery platform. Their current 1/2" impact, as well as most of their tools are able to achieve the desired performance on their 20v platform.

Tools that benefit from the added power of the 60v system will use it. Like the 60v 9" cut-off saw they just released a couple of weeks ago, or the 60v worm-drive saw they released in October 2017. They also have a 60v air compressor, 120v miter saw, 60v angle grinder, 60v chainsaw (2 lbs lighter than the milwaukee 18v chainsaw), 60v SDS hammer, 60v table saw, 60v track saw, 60v leaf blower, 60v string trimmer, 60v stud drill, 60v circular saw, 60v recip saw.

Their 60v platform is already very fleshed out, and if the performance requirements of the tool dictate the need for a 60v supply, it will get one.

 

[Trey T]

Meh.

So, because Milwaukee's finally taking a baby step in playing catchup to the Flexvolt platform it's all over for Dewalt. Yawn

Better luck next year.

The flex volt and the M18 HD produce the same amount of power output (watts).

This is a Public Service Announcement. Dear Dewalt - Your short time in the spotlight has come to an end. The 2018 Milwaukee NPS has basically issued you an eviction notice. You have till September to vacate the premise. Please feel free to create yet ANOTHER new battery platform. It was nice knowing ya.

If your statement and the buzz is true, they have to be using the new Tesla 2170 (equivalent) battery cells. Those cells can pump out more amps. If not, it's just the same HD battery w/ longer run time.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

The battery platform does not dictate the tools - the tools dictate the battery platform. Their current 1/2" impact, as well as most of their tools are able to achieve the desired performance on their 20v platform.

Tools that benefit from the added power of the 60v system will use it. Like the 60v 9" cut-off saw they just released a couple of weeks ago, or the 60v worm-drive saw they released in October 2017. They also have a 60v air compressor, 120v miter saw, 60v angle grinder, 60v chainsaw (2 lbs lighter than the milwaukee 18v chainsaw), 60v SDS hammer, 60v table saw, 60v track saw, 60v leaf blower, 60v string trimmer, 60v stud drill, 60v circular saw, 60v recip saw.

Their 60v platform is already very fleshed out, and if the performance requirements of the tool dictate the need for a 60v supply, it will get one.

They also just released a 60v concrete saw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PNWguy]

Me too!

Wow - thanks for sharing the photos. I had no idea those existed.
Was the Riobe sold in the US? Most of their stuff here seems like homeowner grade, but that clearly isn't the market for a 2 stroke sawzall.

 

[PNWguy]

But, battery powered tools tend to be quieter, AND the CARB bozos and their ilk have a real big head start at killing tool joy over the anti-battery people. not that I really get the whole OPE thing anyway, the closest thing to OPE that I have is my DeWalt XR 20v blower, which I use for my shop and driveway.

I was a kid in L.A. in the early 70's. On bad days the air was brown.
Complain about the "CARB bozos" all you want, but the air is actually pretty decent these days. Sorry if clean air offends you somehow, but CARB and the EPA solved an actual problem.

 

[kctyphoon]

Well Milwaukee just announced the worlds first cordless 1" impact wrench - specs to be announced.. it's a COMPLETELY different gun, not just a larger anvil - so obviously there's a market..

Why not use the 60v and make a big impact?? Truth is although some may be a little better than the regular m18 Fuel stuff - there is not a night and day difference to prove higher voltage is the only way.. I think the main reason is marketing perception. People just assume... at 60v - Dewalt's biggest competition is STILL an 18v tool.. and now those are getting a big push forward and claiming a top position..

Many reviews even list the 40v Dewalt saw as being more powerful than the 60v flexvolt.. so what happened there?

 

[kctyphoon]

The flex volt and the M18 HD produce the same amount of power output (watts).


If your statement and the buzz is true, they have to be using the new Tesla 2170 (equivalent) battery cells. Those cells can pump out more amps. If not, it's just the same HD battery w/ longer run time.

It's not just a larger battery.. the 6.0 has 2 variations now also..

I'm still trying to absorb 5 new impact wrenches being announced at once..

 

[Trey T]

It's not just a larger battery.. the 6.0 has 2 variations now also..

I'm still trying to absorb 5 new impact wrenches being announced at once..

I just found another thread stating that they're using the 2170 cells. It's definitely a game changer - no doubt. Dewalt gonna have to up their game ... just a matter of time.

 

[kctyphoon]

It's funny, cause I joined dewalts online "idea" center - or whatever they call it, and they were asking for suggestions and feedback for cordless lighting ideas. They narrowed down and shared their " top 5" ideas.. EVERY ONE of them was gimmicky and stupid... My last contribution before I left was - obviously you're trying to compete with Milwaukee here, and wondering what you can make to catch up on some of the market. Instead of trying to make a gimmicky product like , a light with a radio, a light with string lights ect.. why don't you just copy one of theirs? You wanna know why they sell so we'll, it's because THEY ARE JUST LIGHTS, and that's what they're good at being...

Now - I don't wanna Pat myself on the back - but 2 yrs later Dewalt releases a carbon copy of Milwaukee's light.. just saying.. lol

 

[WhiffySpark]

I can't spend the money on miluwakee lights. They are definitely not set up for mechanic work.

 

[toddoky]

I can't spend the money on miluwakee lights. They are definitely not set up for mechanic work.

I think you'd be surprised how versatile they can be in an automotive setting. I use the M18 tilt head flashlight and the M12 Rover light all day long doing product development work that includes under-car and bench work. I also have the M12 underhood light but keep it at home for working on the family vehicles.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I think you'd be surprised how versatile they can be in an automotive setting. I use the M18 tilt head flashlight and the M12 Rover light all day long doing product development work that includes under-car and bench work. I also have the M12 underhood light but keep it at home for working on the family vehicles.

Yeah I have that. Sits in my box.

Between the astro sl40, snapon magnetic cob light, and their Underwood light. Miluwakee doesn't have anything in the size or use they do.

Their Underwood light maybe, but everything else no

 

[toddoky]

Yeah I have that. Sits in my box.

Between the astro sl40, snapon magnetic cob light, and their Underwood light. Miluwakee doesn't have anything in the size or use they do.

Their Underwood light maybe, but everything else no

It sounds like you're pretty well covered with what you have.

 

[WWheeler]

I would LUV to have the Milwaukee M12 underhood light. Too bad it's priced waaay too high for me to even consider it. If the bare tool was ~$50, I'd own it right now. ~$75, possibly. $200? Fuggedaboutit

 

[DerekV]

I just found another thread stating that they're using the 2170 cells. It's definitely a game changer - no doubt. Dewalt gonna have to up their game ... just a matter of time.

There's a 99.9% chance the new Dewalt 12.0s are using 21700 cells as well. I'm a Milwaukee guy and I'm pumped on these new tools (especially for being 18v still), but Dewalt has been cranking out some seriously impressive tools in the past 2 years, both regular 20v and 60v. Their game has been stepped up. IMHO Flexvolt is extremely clever and it won't be resting in peace anytime soon. Also IMHO the fact that Milwaukee has managed to seemingly defy physics and continue to redefine what 18v can do is extremely impressive. Both are good, they're just different. /thread

 

[DerekV]

I would LUV to have the Milwaukee M12 underhood light. Too bad it's priced waaay too high for me to even consider it. If the bare tool was ~$50, I'd own it right now. ~$75, possibly. $200? Fuggedaboutit

[emoji106]

I'd settle for $100 though haha

 

[kctyphoon]

I can't spend the money on miluwakee lights. They are definitely not set up for mechanic work.

What you need, is the Milwaukee USB Battery platform, which was just expanded with more lights... I don't think you're familiar with these..

That said - if you're saying Milwaukee doesn't have a good lights for you, lol, then DEWALT DEFINITELY DOESN'T...