Rest In Peace Dewalt Flexvolt.

[kctyphoon]

This is a Public Service Announcement. Dear Dewalt - Your short time in the spotlight has come to an end. The 2018 Milwaukee NPS has basically issued you an eviction notice. You have till September to vacate the premise. Please feel free to create yet ANOTHER new battery platform. It was nice knowing ya.

 

[ngk22r]

Damn that sounds like fighting words there kctyphoon!

 

[kctyphoon]

You should see the demo of the new m18 fuel circular saw posted on twitter.

 

[AceofSpad3s]

Only if there was some sort of combustible fluid that we could use to easily power tools that require large amounts of power like chainsaws but are too far away to be used with an electrical cord

 

[kctyphoon]

Only if there was some sort of combustible fluid that we could use to easily power tools that require large amounts of power like chainsaws but are too far away to be used with an electrical cord

Well, there's simply no need.. now we have an 18v chainsaw that's able to cut up utility poles and produce the same power as a 40cc gas saw.

 

[AceofSpad3s]

Well, there's simply no need.. now we have an 18v chainsaw that's able to cut up utility poles and produce the same power as a 40cc gas saw.

That's great until they decide to discontinue the batteries in 3 years to release the new 19.2 super ultra batteries with 2% improvement over the old and aren't compatible with your chainsaw.
Maybe I am missing something but I don't really see the value in these cordless lawn tools when I can just buy a gasser for less and have for a few decades and just pour gas in it.

 

[kctyphoon]

That's great until they decide to discontinue the batteries in 3 years to release the new 19.2 super ultra batteries with 2% improvement over the old and aren't compatible with your chainsaw.
Maybe I am missing something but I don't really see the value in these cordless lawn tools when I can just buy a gasser for less and have for a few decades and just pour gas in it.

Which is probably why the new 12.0 battery STILL does not fill up the battery slot in the tool.. some nice real estate left inside to exploit at a later date.. and I can still buy factory 9.6 Makita batteries, and my old Paslode nailer batteries just by walking into a hd.. ur way of thinking has been disproven for some time now as far as battery platforms..

Cheap gas outdoor equipment usually isn't worth the headache.. and speaking of headaches - people won't be getting any from their nice a quiet cordless stuff..

But more importantly - BYE BYE FLexvolt.. lol. I feel like some guy is cooking up a great idea to introduce Dewalt's new 80v flexvolt as we speak..

 

[jd_1138]

Just bring a gas generator so you can charge up your cordless tools and run extension cords to the corded ones.

 

[seanb02]

Well, I guess it is time to trade in my DeWalt 20v tools. Never tried flex volt but if they aren't the top end anymore I guess this is it. Seriously, 8 years on my platform, and I have ONE battery fail me, and that was when the casing split due to being dropped too many times. Thought my 1/2" impact was done a few days ago when it started sounding like a dying animal. Took the front end off of it and found out that it can easily be greased, was just getting bit dry and that caused friction combined with the dust and whatnot.

M18 offers a lot more options though, so I will give them that credit. I'm not straying away from the investments I've made in the 20v line though as I have zero complaints so far. Also I use mine daily, not just weekend projects.

 

[HolyGrail]

This is a Public Service Announcement. Dear Dewalt - Your short time in the spotlight has come to an end. The 2018 Milwaukee NPS has basically issued you an eviction notice. You have till September to vacate the premise. Please feel free to create yet ANOTHER new battery platform. It was nice knowing ya.

 

[WWheeler]

Meh.

So, because Milwaukee's finally taking a baby step in playing catchup to the Flexvolt platform it's all over for Dewalt. Yawn

Better luck next year.

 

[6PTsocket]

I just bought a backpack leaf blower. It runs on GAS. I looked at battery and none came close on power but with 2 of those battery "bricks" plugged in, to get any kind of run time, it was just as heavy. There is a spec. called energy density and gas has a lot more than a battery, though the gap has closed a lot in recent years.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[kctyphoon]

Meh.

So, because Milwaukee's finally taking a baby step in playing catchup to the Flexvolt platform it's all over for Dewalt. Yawn

Better luck next year.

MILWAUKEE took a baby step??? Lmao. - most of Milwaukee's customers CAME from Dewalt - cause they lagged on innovation for years.. then - Dewalt finally started to try and catch up with a 20v line, but nothing great enough to justify people going back. Then FLEXVOLT came out, with only a few things though.. good stuff it seems - but only marginally better for a 300% increase in voltage.. a bout 2 weeks (in tool time) went by, and Now Milwaukee introduced about 100 new products again, big power gains - and all with the same 18v platform they've been running for years now..

Wanna talk about baby steps? How's that yellow 12v line doing?? Now Milwaukee has 12v impacts stronger than some 18v.. don't know about you, but I'd call that a leap forward.. have fun catching up.. I'd say have fun watching - but with only one real worklight you Dewalt guys might not be able to see..

I think I may have more Milwaukee lights than Dewalt has 60v tools.. lol

 

[finn]

Sounds like break time at the local middle school.

 

[CR888]

Chinese made tools were once unacceptable to the western consumer......how things have changed. Batteries are still a little way off replacing 2stoke OPE tools, though their heading in the right direction.

 

[FigureItOut]

Dewalt isn't going anywhere, and that's a good thing for us Milwaukee guys, and every other power tool user out there. The more millions they spend on R&D the more we'll all benefit. I can only imagine the meetings that took place when Flexvolt was leaked to Milwaukee, better tools and better batteries could be their only response. Remember too, there's a very large percentage of people who will always believe 60V is three times more powerful than 18V.

 

[danski0224]

By the time September rolls around, Milwaukee will be rolling out the Gen IV Fuel tools and Gen VII Lights, and the fanboys will be buying it up.

Sort of like Apple.

Milwaukee STILL doesn't have any lasers like DeWalt.

 

[1foxracing]

Milwaukee can't make a drill chuck that actually holds drill bits. If they can't figure that out no way I trust them to make a entire tool.

 

[skunkape1]

Sounds like break time at the local middle school.

Exactly. "My dad's Chevy is better than your dad's Ford".

It's totally uncalled for to title the thread as it was. I don't get it. The fanboy following of Milwaukee tools is quite impressive. It's fine to introduce Milwaukee's latest product but to take that kind of shot at Dewalt is juvenile.

 

[American Locomotive]

Well, there's simply no need.. now we have an 18v chainsaw that's able to cut up utility poles and produce the same power as a 40cc gas saw.

LMAO. Look at the specs man, the thing is a complete turd. 6600 RPM with a 3/8" pitch chain, and weighs 14 pounds! A Stihl MS-211 will turn 13,500 RPM with the same chain pitch and is 5 pounds lighter. It will literally cut twice as fast, and have much less operator fatigue.

Notice how Milwaukee doesn't actually *specify* what the power output is? Stihl's ~42cc MS-241 saw is rated at 3.1 HP. 3.1HP is 2.3KW, and assuming that Milwaukee saw's motor is 95% efficient, that means 2.4KW of electrical power. Divide that by 18v and you get 135A. A 12.0Ah battery pack will last 5.3 minutes delivering that kind of current.

Of course, it's very unlikely the Milwaukee saw actually puts out that kind of power, considering their very vague "40cc power" claim.

Milwaukee can't make a drill chuck that actually holds drill bits. If they can't figure that out no way I trust them to make a entire tool.

This. The amount of blatant Milwaukee shilling/astroturfing on this forum is sickening at times.

 

[neophyte]

Milwaukee can't make a drill chuck that actually holds drill bits. If they can't figure that out no way I trust them to make a entire tool.

Milwaukee doesn’t make their own drill chucks, just like most other drill manufacturers.

Most of the keyless drill chucks, and possibly the keyed drill chucks as well, used on Milwaukee drills are manufactured by Yukiwa Seiko. Yukiwa has been supplying Milwaukee with drill chucks since at least the first all metal keyless drill chucks Milwaukee supplied on their drills. I’m not sure, but this might go back to the 1980s or early 1990s.

Yukiwa Seiko also supplies drill chucks to other manufacturers as well, including Makita, and judging by an image on their website, Hitachi, and some Dewalt drills.

Back when the cordless Milwaukee drills were being made in Europe, either Germany or the Czech Republic, the Japanese made, all steel Yukiwa Chucks were probably some of the nicest drill chucks that came on cordless tools.
However before that, Yukowa seems to have supplied an all steel keyless drill chuck, that seemed to be milled from bar stock like older keyed chucks, and I believe I saw it referenced years ago that these had “issues” and didn’t work very well. Yukiwa also likely manufactures the ‘Makita 763198-1 Keyless Chuck’, the hex shanked keyless chuck adapter that Makita sells for Impact drivers, snd these seem to have a number of negative reviews as well. Yukiwa also used to manufacture an all steel keyless chuck that looked exactly like the chucks used on the German Milwaukee drills, but which didn’t ratchet, and these also lacked in performance.

The current Makita drills use Yukiwa chucks, and other than the Impact adapter keyless chuck, I don’t recall seeing many complaints.

I’m not sure what the issue is, but it seems that Yukiwa is inconsistent with their chuck designs or manufacturing, and while sometimes the chuck designs are close to perfect, other times they just ****. The difference between the Makita and Milwaukee performance just seems odd, unless Yukiwa tests the chicks, and gives Makita the good ones, or Milwaukee pays them less, so shortcuts are taken with the manufacture.

I forget offhand whether the current Milwaukee drills use a standard threaded arbor. If they do, Rohm in Germany manufactures a line of chucks called the Supra SK that are very good. These were the chucks used on some of Dewalts top of the line cordless drills at one point, and also the chucks Fein uses on their drills. Alternately, Metabo actually manufactures a lighter weight, all steel drill chuck, that is used on a large number of European brand cordless tools, and these tend to be very good as well.

 

[NitroGarage]

LMAO. Look at the specs man, the thing is a complete turd. 6600 RPM with a 3/8" pitch chain, and weighs 14 pounds! A Stihl MS-211 will turn 13,500 RPM with the same chain pitch and is 5 pounds lighter. It will literally cut twice as fast, and have much less operator fatigue.

Notice how Milwaukee doesn't actually *specify* what the power output is? Stihl's ~42cc MS-241 saw is rated at 3.1 HP. 3.1HP is 2.3KW, and assuming that Milwaukee saw's motor is 95% efficient, that means 2.4KW of electrical power. Divide that by 18v and you get 135A. A 12.0Ah battery pack will last 5.3 minutes delivering that kind of current.

Of course, it's very unlikely the Milwaukee saw actually puts out that kind of power, considering their very vague "40cc power" claim.

This. The amount of blatant Milwaukee shilling/astroturfing on this forum is sickening at times.

Half the RPM, twice the torque? It would be interesting to see how it cuts in an unbiased comparo. If the cutter speed is half as well, which depends on their drive sprocket design as well, it is going to feel like an old 4 stroke gas chainsaw except with even more torque before it bogs out.

It would never replace my gas saw, but for the guy that needs to use a saw once every few months, you don't have to worry about old gas, getting gas and mix, etc, I can see the handyness of that side of things.

I assume this still uses bar oil?

 

[383]

Maybe I am missing something but I don't really see the value in these cordless lawn tools when I can just buy a gasser for less and have for a few decades and just pour gas in it.

Each of our construction crews at my company has a Dewalt 60V chainsaw. We use them for notching posts and timbers typically used once or twice a job, then left in the trailer until the next job. We were having a lot of gas related issues with two-stroke saws that didn't get used often enough to keep fresh gas in them.

I wouldn't trade my gas chain saw at home for an electric, but they do serve a purpose.

 

[DFB]

Hey KC looks like have revived the Dewalt Addiction from the dead thread status been 8 months since anyone had posted anything

 

[jd_1138]

Hey KC looks like have revived the Dewalt Addiction from the dead thread status been 8 months since anyone had posted anything

DeWalt makes fine tools, and it's an American company. I have Makita. I used to have DeWalt but felt guilty having such durable tools as a DIY guy so I sold them to a friend who needed them for his remodeling biz. The Makita stuff was on sale.

 

[jkesselr]

I was a dewalt guy for years, but I recently switched to Milwaukee and have to say that I haven’t looked back. I worked construction for years and was always a dewalt guy, likely because my dad was a dewalt guy. I also felt like the dewalt ergonomics were much better than Milwaukee’s in the past. Not so much anymore. Overall, I agree that the Milwaukee dewalt thing is just like ford and Chevy. For me, I was coming from old wore out 18v dewalt stuff to something new. This site helped me make that decision and a great decision it was. Going from dewalt to Milwaukee was like night and day. To be fair, these are two completely different technologies, so it isn’t really fair to even compare them. I guess what I am saying is that, while I am definitely not a tool fanboy, I am elated with my Milwaukee stuff.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Which is probably why the new 12.0 battery STILL does not fill up the battery slot in the tool...

And the Milwaukee Lawnmower could easily use TWO of those new 12.0Ah batteries !

I am a bit disappointed that they choose to go with 21700 batteries. This kind of leaves the M12 line stuck, although I am certain that Milwaukee will sell hundreds of thousands, probably million, of the old 18650 based M18 battery before they faded away.

 

[theoldwizard1]

LMAO. Look at the specs man, the thing is a complete turd. 6600 RPM with a 3/8" pitch chain, and weighs 14 pounds! A Stihl MS-211 will turn 13,500 RPM with the same chain pitch and is 5 pounds lighter. It will literally cut twice as fast, and have much less operator fatigue.

I could never see that saw in a "commercial" setting. Even the Stihl 15" electric saw only weights 10.6 lbs.

The Milwaukee saw will sell well to 1) people who are already committed the the M18 line and 2) people who only use a chain saw a few times a year and a gas saw would gum up the carburetor between uses (because they were to stupid to drain the fuel and run the carburetor dry after the last time they used it).

 

[dnschmidt]

I think Makita has the right idea of using two battery packs on tools that require more power. I'm disappointed that Milwaukee didn't go this route rather than the ever increasingly big battery pack option. I have both systems, I like both systems. I have far more (like 50 M18 tools) but I really think the twin battery pack platform makes more sense. George Westinghouse won over Thomas Edison with respect to AC vs DC power due to being able to transmit power at higher voltages with less IR loses. The same principal applies here. A 36V motor is going to be more efficient than an 18V motor.

 

[shanny19]

Off topic kinda, but where in Milwaukee is the factory and do they give tours?

 

[jd_1138]

This. The amount of blatant Milwaukee shilling/astroturfing on this forum is sickening at times.

Yeah it is kinda silly. A typical response is: "I used my DeWalt stuff for 12 years, dropped it a million times, beat the **** out of them, but now I went with Milwaukee and this new Milwaukee stuff is nice I must admit! Likin' it so far!"

Using and abusing DeWalt (possibly ni-cad if old enough) stuff for a decade, it doesn't fail, and then going to brand new lithium tools is not a fair basis for comparison.

 

[AceofSpad3s]

Each of our construction crews at my company has a Dewalt 60V chainsaw. We use them for notching posts and timbers typically used once or twice a job, then left in the trailer until the next job. We were having a lot of gas related issues with two-stroke saws that didn't get used often enough to keep fresh gas in them.

I wouldn't trade my gas chain saw at home for an electric, but they do serve a purpose.

For industry I can see them being handy. For my personal usage I just hit stuff with the axe
I cut down a telephone pole and and cut it into 3 sections with it, wish I had one then
I wish I lived on some property that would justify having a big chainsaw.

 

[KWtech90]

Only if there was some sort of combustible fluid that we could use to easily power tools that require large amounts of power like chainsaws but are too far away to be used with an electrical cord

Gas powered OPE has merit with regular use, but for a homeowner it's hard to justify the maintenance. Let's just say you value your time at $50/hr. A gas powered weedeater or chainsaw can end up costing thousands of dollars over its lifespan in maintenance and repairs for less than 10 hours of use per year. Meanwhile a well designed cordless tool can last decades if kept dry with virtually no maintenance.

 

[DFB]

I really like my older Makita tools and still use them too!

 

[Skin]

I don't really get the rabid Milwaukee fan base myself. I've had 2 12V drills with both gearboxes crapping out within months and a screw gun that all the rubber tore off of in a similar time frame. Before that I got suckered into their biggest NiCad platform that was more useful as a doorstop and was a dead platform in short order. Based off my experiences their tools are very junky. Bosch, DeWalt, Snap-On (14.4), are all been vastly better for me in most respects.

 

[WWheeler]

Off topic kinda, but where in Milwaukee is the factory and do they give tours?

lolol, Guangdong Province I believe. Just make a turn East on Connor St and stay that direction for 10000 miles. Gonna need a hell of a duckboat though.

FWIW Milwaukee is supposedly in the next few years bringing back ~600 jobs to a trio of plants in Mississippi manufacturing/assembling? "cordless power tools and accessories" and another ~500 jobs at their HQ in Wisconsin IIRC.

I suspect they are wanting to mimic Dewalt to be able to put some 'Made in the USA from global materials' badges on some of their products also. That has to be the number one complaint they get these days when piles of their best products are sitting in The Borgs right next to piles of Dewalt boxes of a similar lineup of tools but with US flags all over them

 

[6PTsocket]

I think Makita has the right idea of using two battery packs on tools that require more power. I'm disappointed that Milwaukee didn't go this route rather than the ever increasingly big battery pack option. I have both systems, I like both systems. I have far more (like 50 M18 tools) but I really think the twin battery pack platform makes more sense. George Westinghouse won over Thomas Edison with respect to AC vs DC power due to being able to transmit power at higher voltages with less IR loses. The same principal applies here. A 36V motor is going to be more efficient than an 18V motor.

Same reason cars went from 6 to 12 volt electrical systems and there is talk of increasing it again. Devices that would use over 15-20 amps on 120 volts are built to run on 230 volts at half the current. Edison did not give up easily. He electrocuted animals, even an elephant and he and GE invented the electric chair just to scare people about the danger of AC. From a shock perspective there is some truth that AC can be more lethal than DC but the battle against IR losses won in the end. There would be no power grid without high voltage AC. As a kid in the 50s I remember a hotel in Manhattan that still had DC in the rooms. Many appliances of that period were marked 120 volts AC/DC.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Lassen Forge]

All my DeWalt tools run the same 20V platform, so if they change, so what? I go down, get new batts when the old ones are done, and we're good. Same with my Ryobi stuff... I've had it for over 10 years now, they've upgraded the batteries, but they still run the old tools just fine.

 

[timbitca]

While I do love Milwaukee and plan on getting a lot more M18 tools than only the drill and impact driver I have right now I still just bought in the last few months a gas powered Stihl leaf blower and Echo string trimmer. 200$ for both (very slightly) used will do me well, and with a little maintenance should last me a good number of years. And I will dispute the previous posters claim that gas powered OPE will cost thousands in maintenance and repair, seriously? I've been using the same string trimmer on my Mother's property that my grandfather bought new about 30 years ago, that and the 40-year old riding mower (ok, it's on it's third battery in that span).

(Disclaimer: I had my stepfather bring me my Grandfather's old Husqvarna chainsaw last weekend, and it won't start. But I haven't used it in two years and the carb is predictably gunked up, but I chalk that up to my fault, not a design failure)

 

[toddmorr]

And I will dispute the previous posters claim that gas powered OPE will cost thousands in maintenance and repair, seriously? I've been using the same string trimmer on my Mother's property that my grandfather bought new about 30 years ago, that and the 40-year old riding mower (ok, it's on it's third battery in that span).

basically the same experience for me....Echo hedge trimmer, Craftsman line trimmer, Tanaka blower, Echo blower, Mantis tiller.....all have been very reliable by simply draining the fuel at season's end, for many years. The Craftsman trimmer in particular has been amazing...that thing is going on 26 yrs with literally no maintenance, other than strings of course. Maybe an air filter but no spark plug...lol.

i can use them for hours on end, no hassle and no power shortage.