Retrofitting old metal panel garage door with insulation.

[acer66]

Hello,

I tried to find something here via search after google telling me garagejournal does not allow to display results but no luck.

I have an old 8x12 metal panel garage door.
Someone in the past glued some withe styrofoam boards on there,
most of them fell off.

I looked online and seems they sell glass fiber bats for that
which I am not to keen to use.

Seems straight forward, get some foam boards and secure them somehow.

But I am sure there is some details to look out for.

Any experience to share?

Thank you.

 

[MrSurly]

Depending on the type of panels, there are kits available for purchase of styrofoam boards.
In my case, I found sound generic styrofoam boards that were 2’x4’ on Craigslist. I put together a hot wire cutter to get them to size and then had to notch the door dude of them to clear the channels in the door. It all worked out really well. I’ll. See if I can round up pics.

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[acer66]

Depending on the type of panels, there are kits available for purchase of styrofoam boards.


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Great, I will see if I can find a manufacturers name on there.

 

[The Cobbler]

styrofoam & foam adhesive in a tube would work well

 

[MrSurly]

Pics of the door would help.


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[acer66]

styrofoam & foam adhesive in a tube would work well

Is the white styrofoam better than the purple(?) stuff?

 

[The Cobbler]

very little difference in r value per inch, the white is usually a bit softer and cheaper

 

[56Safari]

Depends on what you mean by white styrofoam... Whiteish/yellow poly-iso holds a slightly better R value than the purple rigid XPS foam, but if you’re comparing the cheaper white styrofoam that’s commonly used in shipping and packing then no, the purple XPS is much better.

Before you waste a bunch of money trying to re-insulate a door that might not seal very well at the seams you should price a new insulated door... I just picked up 9x8 insulated pella doors for $470each.. and there’s a company called CHI that has doors with really good R values at surprisingly low prices..


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[acer66]

Excuse the mess please.

View media item 98408
View media item 98409

 

[acer66]

Depends on what you mean by white styrofoam... Whiteish/yellow poly-iso holds a slightly better R value than the purple rigid XPS foam, but if you’re comparing the cheaper white styrofoam that’s commonly used in shipping and packing then no, the purple XPS is much better.

Before you waste a bunch of money trying to re-insulate a door that might not seal very well at the seams you should price a new insulated door... I just picked up 9x8 insulated pella doors for $470each.. and there’s a company called CHI that has doors with really good R values at surprisingly low prices..


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I will check into that but funds are very low in the moment.

 

[56Safari]

Gotcha, yeah if you're just planning to re-use the existing foam than just get the proper glue to put it back, and clean both sides up so it adheres nicely... Rigid foam is $32 per 2" 4x8 sheet here, so it isn't that cheap either..

https://dm.henkel-dam.com/is/conten...hesive-Paper-Cartridge-10-fl-oz-2014-08-26pdf

This stuff works great on EPS, XPS and Poly-iso.... just note that it DOESNT bond with polyethylene, so the you'd have to remove the backing on poly-iso

 

[MrSurly]

I managed to install styrofoam (pure white plano styrofoam) in my retrofit using no glue. The thickness happened to work out right, but there was a catch in that the panels had two grooves in the face of the door in each panel. Inside the door these formed humps that were in the way. I rigged up a way to easily cut grooves into the outside face of the foam panels that aligned with the contour of the humps and also made it possible to size them so that the grooves/ humps made the panels sort of “snap” into place. Got lucky on that.



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[The Cobbler]

^^^ that looks like factory

 

[fourbyford]

I used the blue XPS foam on mine. Was able to get full coverage without using glue. I used strips left over from insulating the walls, so doors were essentially "free"
...D

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[jgump]

Get the fiberglass kit from Menards. Easy to install.

 

[bobj49f2]

I have two overhead doors, one 10'x10', the other, 12'x14', in my pole building. I insulated the entire building and had to find a solution for the doors. The panels in the door are too wide, top to bottom, to use the kits sold at the big box stores. Originally I was going to use styrofoam with a thin plastic paneling to try to achieve a professional look and something relatively easy to keep clean.

This is my first attempt

View media item 89257
Before going through with this procedure I was talking to a friend and he mentioned he had a bunch of styrofoam I could have for free. When I went to his house to get the styrofoam he mentioned he had some insulated panels he got from a place he worked for that made industrial refrigerator doors. He had stacks in his yard. These panels were 2" thick with 1/8" fiberglass sheets on both sides. I was able to get enough to do both doors.

View media item 97646
I had to groove out two paths for the two ribs in the door

View media item 97293
Just set up my table saw with a low cost dado blade. I took about 1" off the outer edge so I had lip to rest on the pocket frames. I stuff regular insulation mat around inner lips of the packet frames to seal the air gap.

View media item 98443

 

[MrSurly]

This is my first attempt

he mentioned he had some insulated panels he got from a place he worked for that made industrial refrigerator doors. He had stacks in his yard. These panels were 2" thick with 1/8" fiberglass sheets on both sides.

I can’t be the only one wondering how many he has left?!
That’s a great outcome



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[bobj49f2]

He has a stack of narrower panels, 19" wide, 8+ long. He's an old retired guy with a lot of junk in his yard and in his building and doesn't like strangers around.

 

[bobj49f2]

One major fact I forgot to mention is adding insulation really adds weight. Even the simple 1" styrofoam and the thin (1/16") paneling for the four compartments in my first attempt added a lot of weight. The 2" panels with the fiberglass panel weighed just under 9 pounds. I added almost 150 pounds to the small door and 210 pounds to the larger door. I have a guy lined up to install stronger springs. I won't mess with the spring myself. He weighed each door and calculated the size springs I need. He is also going to a three cross braces on the smaller door and four on the larger door.

 

[acer66]

I have two overhead doors, one 10'x10', the other, 12'x14', in my pole building. I insulated the entire building and had to find a solution for the doors. The panels in the door are too wide, top to bottom, to use the kits sold at the big box stores. Originally I was going to use styrofoam with a thin plastic paneling to try to achieve a professional look and something relatively easy to keep clean.

This is my first attempt

View media item 89257
Before going through with this procedure I was talking to a friend and he mentioned he had a bunch of styrofoam I could have for free. When I went to his house to get the styrofoam he mentioned he had some insulated panels he got from a place he worked for that made industrial refrigerator doors. He had stacks in his yard. These panels were 2" thick with 1/8" fiberglass sheets on both sides. I was able to get enough to do both doors.

View media item 97646
I had to groove out two paths for the two ribs in the door

View media item 97293
Just set up my table saw with a low cost dado blade. I took about 1" off the outer edge so I had lip to rest on the pocket frames. I stuff regular insulation mat around inner lips of the packet frames to seal the air gap.

View media item 98443

If he has a lot that might be a business opportunity.

 

[acer66]

One major fact I forgot to mention is adding insulation really adds weight. Even the simple 1" styrofoam and the thin (1/16") paneling for the four compartments in my first attempt added a lot of weight. The 2" panels with the fiberglass panel weighed just under 9 pounds. I added almost 150 pounds to the small door and 210 pounds to the larger door. I have a guy lined up to install stronger springs. I won't mess with the spring myself. He weighed each door and calculated the size springs I need. He is also going to a three cross braces on the smaller door and four on the larger door.

I hope that will be not an issue with mine since the prior owner had also thin wood sheets screwed over the insulation and the door worked just fine.

As of now I will go with the purple stuff since the white stuff which is on there right now collects dirt and since this is a wood working shop there will be a lot of air borne particles.

 

[acer66]

Took me awhile to get going.
View media item 99205The starting point.
View media item 99206If you give them space they will use it.
Was behind the ply.
View media item 99207Cleaned up.
View media item 99208Used 1&1/2” foam board since it fits perfect.
Now I am trying to think of a way to get some insulation
inside the vertical metal channels.

The concrete slap is not straight and I want to close the gap.
There are some bottom seals to address that.
Are they any good?

Thank you.

 

[fourbyford]

Looks like your doors are very similar to mine. I have the same issue with the metal channels between the insulated sections. My thought is to try using "Great Stuff" (expanding foam in a can). I've read several differing opinions on whether it will work in that large a space so I plan on making a similar sized cavity from scrap ply and trying it out. Lots on the to-do list but, need to figure it out soon. It's amazing how much cold is transmitted by those areas!
...D

 

[acer66]

Yes, now that the foam boards are in you can really feel the cold coming through the channels.

I also was thinking about using the black can from great stuff but I have the same concerns.
Maybe doing that with tube attached to the nozzle.

The other thing I am considering is cutting the overlapping sheet metal one top of the rails bend it away so I can push foam board strips down from there or a combination of foam boards and foam.

 

[fourbyford]

I hope to built my "test channel" this weekend... I'm thinking I'll drill a series of 3/8" holes from bottom to top and spaced 4" (or so) apart. With the tube attached to the can, I'll start spraying from the bottom and (hopefully) watch it expand... then move the tube to the next hole and spray more... rinse and repeat.
My thought is to try to figure out how the foam will move while I can watch it through the open top of the test channel. This should give me a clue on how to apply it to the channels in the doors. I'll let ya know!
...D

 

[bobj49f2]

Took me awhile to get going.

Cleaned up.
View media item 99208Used 1&1/2” foam board since it fits perfect.
Now I am trying to think of a way to get some insulation
inside the vertical metal channels.

Thank you.

Looks really nice. How about covering the door with thin plastic panels? My original idea was to use a thin, 1/8", plastic paneling used to cover walls in a wet location.

Yes, now that the foam boards are in you can really feel the cold coming through the channels.

I also was thinking about using the black can from great stuff but I have the same concerns.
Maybe doing that with tube attached to the nozzle.

The other thing I am considering is cutting the overlapping sheet metal one top of the rails bend it away so I can push foam board strips down from there or a combination of foam boards and foam.

I would think by cutting structural members would compromise the structure of the doors. I stuffed simple matt insulation in the voids before installing my insulated panels. I don't feel air or cold coming through.

I hope to built my "test channel" this weekend... I'm thinking I'll drill a series of 3/8" holes from bottom to top and spaced 4" (or so) apart. With the tube attached to the can, I'll start spraying from the bottom and (hopefully) watch it expand... then move the tube to the next hole and spray more... rinse and repeat.
My thought is to try to figure out how the foam will move while I can watch it through the open top of the test channel. This should give me a clue on how to apply it to the channels in the doors. I'll let ya know!
...D

I would use a minimal expanding foam. Too aggressive of a foam might push the metal apart. I do like the idea though, better than my matt idea but I had a large roll of insulation left over from insulating my building.

 

[fourbyford]

Yep... I've considered that the regular foam might be a bit "aggressive " for this use. My thought is that I should be able to roughly figure out the rate of expansion by using the test piece. Might have to build a couple to figure it out. I bought a few cans (regular) for my insulation job and ended up not needing them... I'd like to think I can figure out how to use them for this part of the job.
As far as covering the foam, I found some white, "plastic cardboard " (looks like corrugated cardboard but made from plastic) and think I'll try using it. I know I can get it in the doors... the problem is I'm pretty much at the limit of what my torsion springs will handle. After I installed the foam, I tightened my springs 3/4 turn (they feel pretty tight)... doors work fine now but I'm hesitant to add much more weight. These are only here temporarily... once my budget allows, I will replace them with r-18 two sided steel doors... hate to spend the cash to buy new springs...
...D

 

[acer66]

Looks really nice. How about covering the door with thin plastic panels? My original idea was to use a thin, 1/8", plastic paneling used to cover walls in a wet location.

I would think by cutting structural members would compromise the structure of the doors. I stuffed simple matt insulation in the voids before installing my insulated panels. I don't feel air or cold coming through.


I would use a minimal expanding foam. Too aggressive of a foam might push the metal apart. I do like the idea though, better than my matt idea but I had a large roll of insulation left over from insulating my building.

Yes, I like the idea of those white panels.

I do not think a couple of holes will hurt.
The two outer rails have quite a few additional bigger holes
for whatever reason in them.