Review: Current (4/27/17) CM Full Polish Combo Wrenches

[HanShotFirst]

I decided I needed a set of long pattern combination wrenches in metric. But money is VERY tight lately so it had to be on the cheap. After some looking around, I picked up a brand new 13pc set of CM full polished on Ebay for just over $32.00 delivered; a very good price...but how are the wrenches?

As received, the CM full polish look quite similar to Husky brand. But the CM's are a bit longer, qualifying them as a "long pattern" wrench.

Many have denigrated the “quality” of Craftsman as of late, and it’s easy to see why. Most CM tools have gone from US made to being made in the Pacific Rim; typically China or Taiwan. But has it been “quality” that has suffered, or is it something somewhat less tangible?

Old CM Strength
I’m in my 50’s, so I’ve been using CM tools for well over 30 years; and here’s what I can say about the strength of CM’s US made tools. It never was all that impressive.

30 years ago EVERYONE knew that CM made the best “Consumer Grade” tools, and to some degree there was a lot of truth in that; they were very nice tools. But any Mac, Matco, or SnapOn salesman who worked in the 1980’s can tell you, CM US made wrenches were nice wrenches, but they never were brute strong. The big 3 truck brands were constantly sharing literature or videos showing how the classic CM raised panel wrenches would spread or break when put to a severe test...and of course our “hero” truck brands did not.

The CM 3/8” teardrop ratchets were always nice to use, but strong they were not. And CM’s sockets were made with great precision, but most any pro-wrench and a LOT of weekend warriors have stories of when they broke a CM socket...an awful LOT broke.

Many have seen videos of various torture tests of various wrenches, and most current make wrenches out “strong” the old CM’s; including the currrent CM’s. Better steels and better heat treating allow for this, but much strength comes from that big fat bolster that’s so unsightly.

Hey I’m just as guilty as the next guy...I know in a few ways my VV series raised panel wrenches are inferior to many import wrenches, but I’m not giving up my VV’s that I bought new in 1985 for nothing! And when you get right down to it, they really were damn good wrenches! Why else are they used as the “control” wrench for pretty much every comparison test anyone does?


New CM - The intangibles
If you say you never consider aesthetics when purchasing tools, you’re fooling yourself. I have passed over buying Harbor Freight wrenches for my portable tool box because they just looked cheap. And that seems to be where Craftsman is really failing; and these new full polish wrenches could be a case study in the current failures of Craftsman.

Generally speaking the current CM full polish wrenches are competent wrenches, and will likely last a weekend warrior such as I a few lifetimes. But I don’t want these for a lifetime...the minute I can afford a set of Metric SK Long Pattern’s to go with my SAE set, I’ll dump the CM’s for the SK’s in a New York Minute.

That big fat boster!!!
Look at the thing...it’s like a goiter! It just screams...”I’m here so we didn’t have to buy the expensive steel”.

Left to right: SK Long Pattern, CM Full Polish, CM VV Raised Panel, Proto Reversable Ratcheting Spline

Anyone who has spent any quality time with a wrench in his/her hands knows when they see wrenches with a long/fat bolster section, it’s an imported wrench; it’s their calling card. It’s a way for Chinese wrenches to do well in those torture tests, yet still be inexpensive to make and sell.

Unfortunately CM has painted themselves into a corner. By buying strong wrenches that look cheap, CM gets labeled “cheap ****”. If they bought inexpensive wrenches that looked good but were only as strong as the old US made raised panel wrenches, then we’d be seeing Youtube videos of these new “cheap import” wrenches failing before everyone else. And if CM bought import wrenches made of top grade steels with world class heat treating, then the public would say; that’s too much money for an imported wrench. Lastly, if CM started buying first rate US made wrenches, they would be so expensive that CM would go under trying to sell them. So they’re pretty much in a pickle.

Okay, so what do I think of my new wrenches?

Chrome quality is very good. The open & box ends measure out right where they should. Both the open and box end are thicker on the outside than they ought to be, but that’s just typical of an import wrench. The beams are a little wider than I personally like, but that’s just a personal preference thing brought about by 30 years of wrenching with SK long patterns. The beam is well shaped and comfortable, and that’s the important part.

Yeah, they’re “good” wrenches and they’re likely to take anything I can dish out. Yeah I’ll used the hell out of them. No I’m not worried they’re going to break, I’m confident they’re VERY strong wrenches and stronger than my beautiful VV series CM raised panel.

And they do qualify as a long pattern wrench as the length is spot on with my old Craftsman Professional (made by SK) wrenches; which SK sells as their long pattern wrenches. So I have a set of long patterns to work with, and I do like that.

Length comparison left to right: Old SK made Craftsman Pro (1/2"), CM Full Polish (12mm), CM VV Series Raised Panel (12mm)

Left to right: CM VV Series Raised Panel, CM Full Polish, SK Long Pattern

Box end comparison; Old SK made Craftsman Pro (1/2"), CM Full Polish (12mm), CM VV Series Raised Panel (12mm)

Measurement comparison. CM VV Series Raised Panel VS. CM Current Make Full Polish


Beam width .464 / .486
Beam thickness .206 (flat, non-raised section) /.196
Open end opening .478 / .476
Open end overall width .955 / 1.05
Open end thickness .256 / .262
Open end bolster length .835 / 1.02
Box end groove width .756 / .793
Box end land width .550 / .550
Box end thickness .302 / .329

 

[gdocktor3]

Could one argue the new wrenches were designed with the lobster claws to increase strength???

 

[HanShotFirst]

Could one argue the new wrenches were designed with the lobster claws to increase strength???

Lobster claw...I like that. All in all, they're good wrenches; just a bit ugly.

 

[HanShotFirst]

Oh I forgot to mention one thing I did like. There were no skips, 7-19mm; it's a complete set.

 

[T45]

...the minute I can afford a set of Metric SK Long Pattern’s to go with my SAE set, I’ll dump the CM’s for the SK’s in a New York Minute.

This spending $32 vs just buying a "proper" set of wrenches is arguably not a great deal in this context. for $150 you can buy used [insert favorite brand here] in 10-19mm. If it takes you one or two years to save up the money, that $32 is like a 20-30% interest rate, which is pretty high cost of borrowing the money.

I have no issue with buying tools at various pricepoints, but its important to do the math on what constitutes "saving money" or a good deal. Buying tools twice is almost always an expensive strategy.

 

[HanShotFirst]

This spending $32 vs just buying a "proper" set of wrenches is arguably not a great deal in this context. for $150 you can buy used [insert favorite brand here] in 10-19mm. If it takes you one or two years to save up the money, that $32 is like a 20-30% interest rate, which is pretty high cost of borrowing the money.

I have no issue with buying tools at various pricepoints, but its important to do the math on what constitutes "saving money" or a good deal. Buying tools twice is almost always an expensive strategy.

I'm glad that logic makes sense to you.

 

[thesilverone]

not really a review, just initial impressions

 

[Gmonkee]

Gotta go with Han here. Having what you need now is saving or making money. Shops make it and Harry Homeshop saves it not paying labor.

Wrenches hold resale. Pay 32 bucks today, use them and inflation will make even import CM worth the same at resale.

I have tested, abused and resold maybe five combo wrench sets over time always pulling a profit plus the wages made using them back out.
Thats good math. DOE donT resell easily but I can -usually- break even on them.
No matter, those I actually use the most.

Gotta watch for the resale value on whatever, if you get it right it offsets the later costs. It doesn't always work out but when it does........

 

[Schurkey]

Please CROP and RESIZE your photos. The thread gets hard to read when the photos are so ginormous that I have to scroll left-and-right to read the text.

Those wrenches aren't "Craftsman Professional (made by SK)", they're made by Western Forge, branded for Sears or for SK. They're my favorite non-tool-truck long-pattern wrench.

 

[Infinia]

Thank you for your very valuable review. I agree with your subjective wrench review and 'state of the union' speech on CM wrenches. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I use both my VV RP and CM 13pc SAE Pro long pattern (SK made ) which I love, sadly I too didn't purchase the Pro metric set from that era E.g. mid 90's. I think I'll hold off on those imported jobs, and limp along with my longish CM USA (DBE) double box ended instead.

 

[T45]

Having what you need now is saving or making money. Shops make it and Harry Homeshop saves it not paying labor.

If you are actually making money, you should be using credit to maximize your ROI. Paying tripple the financing costs is sometimes better avoided.

Paying $180 for "two sets of wrenches" when one set for $150 will do is just spending too much out of pocket. You now have to deal with the hassle of shoping twices, storing two sets, or selling the second set, etc.

I get its hard to be rationa when dealing with hobby purchases, but for actual business discipline is useful to keep in mind.

Just my $0,02...learned the hard way of course... .

 

[Al Borland]

Gonna have to fault you on the "interest" thing.
Interest is money spent with nothing tangible in hand to show for it.
In Han's case, he STILL has a second set of wrenches, which can go in the car set, be mutilated for special projects, resold, or passed on to a child/friend/neighbor who needs some basic tools.
At the end of the day, did the bolts get turned?
Yes.
Then the wrenches did their job.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Anyone who has spent any quality time with a wrench in his/her hands knows when they see wrenches with a long/fat bolster section, it’s an imported wrench; it’s their calling card. It’s a way for Chinese wrenches to do well in those torture tests, yet still be inexpensive to make and sell.

Unfortunately CM has painted themselves into a corner. By buying strong wrenches that look cheap, CM gets labeled “cheap ****”. If they bought inexpensive wrenches that looked good but were only as strong as the old US made raised panel wrenches, then we’d be seeing Youtube videos of these new “cheap import” wrenches failing before everyone else. And if CM bought import wrenches made of top grade steels with world class heat treating, then the public would say; that’s too much money for an imported wrench. Lastly, if CM started buying first rate US made wrenches, they would be so expensive that CM would go under trying to sell them. So they’re pretty much in a pickle.

Those Chinese wrenches were designed by American engineers, so I'd blame them, not the Chinese, for the monstrosity of the open end.

Maybe instead of sticking with Apex for their tools, they should switch to whomever supplies Tekton with their combination wrenches. Cheaper per piece, higher quality, and look way better. Craftsman wrenches are crappy only because Sears is okay with crappy tools. That sums up most of Craftsmans current tool line. There are plenty of Taiwan OEMs who can turn out a high quality but cheap tool for even professional use.

Hope the wrenches work for you though!

 

[T45]

At the end of the day, did the bolts get turned?

There's load of different views on this...and I'm not trying to say everyon who doesn't see it in the same light is wrong...my point is more that there are multiple views on this ... and its worth keeping in mind the pro and con of each approach.

secondly, I know for a fact there are many fasteners those cman won't ever fit on...at least in stuff I work on...

 

[HanShotFirst]

Gotta go with Han here. Having what you need now is saving or making money. Shops make it and Harry Homeshop saves it not paying labor.

Wrenches hold resale. Pay 32 bucks today, use them and inflation will make even import CM worth the same at resale.

I have tested, abused and resold maybe five combo wrench sets over time always pulling a profit plus the wages made using them back out.
Thats good math. DOE donT resell easily but I can -usually- break even on them.
No matter, those I actually use the most.

Gotta watch for the resale value on whatever, if you get it right it offsets the later costs. It doesn't always work out but when it does........

When/if I ever get the set I really want, these will be given to one of my kids.

 

[wmm2]

This spending $32 vs just buying a "proper" set of wrenches is arguably not a great deal in this context. for $150 you can buy used [insert favorite brand here] in 10-19mm. If it takes you one or two years to save up the money, that $32 is like a 20-30% interest rate, which is pretty high cost of borrowing the money.

I have no issue with buying tools at various pricepoints, but its important to do the math on what constitutes "saving money" or a good deal. Buying tools twice is almost always an expensive strategy.

If you're talking about doing this as a hobby, I can agree with you. Wait and buy what you really want. But, if you're buying them because you need them to get a job done, and can't afford the better set right away, get the cheaper ones. Hopefully, they're paid for by that first job. I know I have some tools that I wouldn't brag about, but it's what I could afford at the time that I needed them. The money saved on that job (compared to paying to have it done) was more than double what the cheap wrenches cost.

So yes, if you can come up with the money to buy the better tool, do so. But if not, go cheap if you need to. Then stash what you saved and buy the better tool when you can. After a while, you can buy the better tool the first time.

 

[HanShotFirst]

Even if you're a weekend warrior, his rationale probably only makes sense to him. If I have work to be done I'd rather have a lesser tool that no tool. I will get a few years of good use out of these, and $32.00 is closer to pocket change than some sort of "investment" that I need to calculate out over time (seriously, who does that for a $32 expenditure?). I assume better days are ahead for me, but if they're not, well then I have a decent set of wrenches to hold me over, and it was financially painless. If later I can buy the set I really want; that's great.

What T45 doesn't get is, when money is tight $150 tends to go to other, more essential things (regardless if you "saved up" or not), especially when I already have standard length wrenches. I'm not a professional mechanic, so this isn't a must have, it's a convenience.

T45's thought process must make sense to a professional mechanic (although I still don't see it)

 

[HanShotFirst]

Those Chinese wrenches were designed by American engineers, so I'd blame them, not the Chinese, for the monstrosity of the open end.

Maybe instead of sticking with Apex for their tools, they should switch to whomever supplies Tekton with their combination wrenches. Cheaper per piece, higher quality, and look way better. Craftsman wrenches are crappy only because Sears is okay with crappy tools. That sums up most of Craftsmans current tool line. There are plenty of Taiwan OEMs who can turn out a high quality but cheap tool for even professional use.

Hope the wrenches work for you though!

Agreed!
Seems to me the people who are buying tools to wear the Craftsman name aren't tool people at all.

 

[Wamsutta]

Could one argue the new wrenches were designed with the lobster claws to increase strength???

The extra material is there to make up for the steel's low strength.

 

[Skin]

Those wrenches aren't "Craftsman Professional (made by SK)", they're made by Western Forge, branded for Sears or for SK. They're my favorite non-tool-truck long-pattern wrench.

You're wrong, he's correct. The old Cman Pro were made by SK in Chicago. WF didn't start pumping out combos for Ideal SK until after Ideal purchased SK out of bankruptcy which was long after SK made Cman combos were sold (around 2000).

Also worth mentioning that SK has since relocated wrench forging to their home Illinois location.

Those Chinese wrenches were designed by American engineers

No idea where you got that notion from but its false. They asked for a similar product from a Chinese manufacturer, these are the results. Simple as that.

 

[Loscaldazar]

No idea where you got that notion from but its false. They asked for a similar product from a Chinese manufacturer, these are the results. Simple as that.

The wrenches are made in one of Apex's Chinese plants per the date code and factory code stamping that will be present on the other side of the wrenches. Apex=American engineers.

 

[doogdoog]

Good tools are made with good material for strength and not like an inferior tool that has a lot of extra metal. Take example a good grade box wrench, the walls are thin and it can get into tight spaces. The cheaper ones have thick walls and probably wouldn't fit in a tight space. I have some old Proto and Plumb tools and one the ball on the end of an extension came out and had it replaced with the same brand and size. The replacement had a larger diameter than the old one and later found out that Proto was bought out by another tool company (I think Stanley but am not sure) and now I have a clunker of an extension.

 

[HanShotFirst]

The wrenches are made in one of Apex's Chinese plants per the date code and factory code stamping that will be present on the other side of the wrenches. Apex=American engineers.

Well at best the US engineers just put their stamp on the drawings. Because the open end design is identical to about a half dozen other Chinese made wrenches...I have a set of standard length Husky wrenches that are identical to the CM full polish with the exception of the overall length.

Again, they're decent wrenches and will work just fine, but I'm not seeing anything "American" about them.

 

[Infinia]

Those Chinese wrenches were designed by American engineers, so I'd blame them, not the Chinese, for the monstrosity of the open end.

Perhaps a more svelte (elegant ) open end design already failed the engineers testing.
I reckon as others do too , the 'lobster claw' is mostly based on PRC steel quality or lack there of and in place processes heat treatment etc. to meet a low tier consumer price point. IMO they spend all the budget on chrome and polishing, less on quality raw steel and heat treatment.

 

[dnschmidt]

Has anybody ever had an open end wrench with the dreaded "lobster claw" fail to turn a bolt or nut due to said "lobster claw." If "lobster claw" thickens the head of the open end to an extent were it will not fit somewhere then that's a problem (or maybe not as it can double as an open end flare nut wrench) but if it simply violates your sense of esthetics I'm somewhat less concerned about it than apparently others are. It's a wrench - it turns bolts and nuts. Unless you're into some bizarre *** practices that's all it's meant to do.

 

[Wrench Junkie]

I've been fairly happy so far with this set and actually prefer them over the (Chinese made) raised panel CMs that I have at work. I'm just starting out on my tool collection... so 5 months ago I bought the Craftsman 540pc tool set, which had this set (as well as pretty much all of the wrenches from this line). They're are definitely cheap (It filled my new 41" box for $899), and to that point, a friend of mine with the same set has come across a few times where not the depth, but the thickness of the open end, was too much to access certain areas. So far though, I haven't had this issue *crosses fingers* but i'd also say that I haven't used them enough to recommend them yet, so the verdict is still out...

 

[Tonellin]

Has anybody ever had an open end wrench with the dreaded "lobster claw" fail to turn a bolt or nut due to said "lobster claw." If "lobster claw" thickens the head of the open end to an extent were it will not fit somewhere then that's a problem (or maybe not as it can double as an open end flare nut wrench) but if it simply violates your sense of esthetics I'm somewhat less concerned about it than apparently others are. It's a wrench - it turns bolts and nuts. Unless you're into some bizarre *** practices that's all it's meant to do.

The difference between tool polishers and tool users

I can recall a few times where the massive lobster claw has made for difficult removal and I'm only a weekend warrior. I can imagine as a pro it would get frustrating

 

[Loscaldazar]

Well at best the US engineers just put their stamp on the drawings. Because the open end design is identical to about a half dozen other Chinese made wrenches...I have a set of standard length Husky wrenches that are identical to the CM full polish with the exception of the overall length.

Again, they're decent wrenches and will work just fine, but I'm not seeing anything "American" about them.

Apex also makes much of Husky's tool line for HD, so it would not surprise me at all the find the wrenches are very similar. Apex is everywhere!

 

[Gmonkee]

I built the metric version of the typical 1950's tool kit and tool ot to work to replace the typical modern kit of today.

Just because of two things. This wider is useless idea and I have hundreds of worn out antique wrenches that shouldn't be worn out if useless.

It was a blazing success and years later it is still in use. Daily all week. Wide hipped DOE wrenches and all. Nothing fits everywhere but these have found very few places where size became the problem.
Or I learned how to use them where they shine and choose other options for tight spots.

Either way in my kit a doubly cursed set of wrenches for some is my gold.

 

[Strouty]

Those open ends are designed that way so idiots can't work on things in real life.

Sorry OP, but I think you would have been better off wiping your *** with that money.

 

[M6erfan]

Those open ends are designed that way so idiots can't work on things in real life.

Sorry OP, but I think you would have been better off wiping your *** with that money.

But how do you feel about them?

 

[Skin]

The wrenches are made in one of Apex's Chinese plants per the date code and factory code stamping that will be present on the other side of the wrenches. Apex=American engineers.

Again, where are you getting this from? Just as an example GW hand tools, an Apex brand, is designed almost entirely in Taiwan.

Don't confuse American company and American designed. An American company can have a product made in China from start to finish without doing anything but giving it a brand.

 

[thesilverone]

lets make more threads discussing craftsman chinese lobster claws

 

[Loscaldazar]

Again, where are you getting this from? Just as an example GW hand tools, an Apex brand, is designed almost entirely in Taiwan.

Don't confuse American company and American designed. An American company can have a product made in China from start to finish without doing anything but giving it a brand.

Much of Gearwrench is also designed by Apex. The ratchets (45, 60, 84, 120) are all Apex patents, not a Taiwan OEM. A significant amount of gearwrench can be tracked back to Apex Patents, even the wrenches (modified open ends, locked mechanism, etc). The gearwrench sockets are probably not Apex design as they lack the traditional double detent that is on every Apex designed socket (Armstrong, Masterforce, USA Craftsman, Chinese Craftsman, Husky).

It almost certainly was an Apex engineer as those wrenches come out of an Apex owned factory (not a factory that Apex contracts out to, one they own)-- the very same factory that produces the double detent Craftsman and Husky sockets. I highly doubt the wrenches were a Chinese design since they are coming out of an Apex owned factory. If they had contracted out to a non-Apex factory, it would be likely that it was a Chinese design.

Since they are produced in an Apex factory, it's highly unlikely that it is a non-Apex design. Tool companies rarely buy another company's design and produce it themselves, preferring instead to just outsource the entire production to that outside company. Tools that are made in house are almost always in house designs for tool manufacturers (this is very different from machine shops where most, if not all work, is based on outside designs produced in house).

Maybe Apex has Chinese engineers on staff, but no matter what, with a contract as big as the Craftsman one, there had to be USA staff signing off on it. Ultimately Apex still found it acceptable to produce those "exquisite" wrenches.

 

[Skin]

Much of Gearwrench is also designed by Apex. The ratchets (45, 60, 84, 120) are all Apex patents, not a Taiwan OEM. A significant amount of gearwrench can be tracked back to Apex Patents, even the wrenches (modified open ends, locked mechanism, etc). The gearwrench sockets are probably not Apex design as they lack the traditional double detent that is on every Apex designed socket (Armstrong, Masterforce, USA Craftsman, Chinese Craftsman, Husky).

It almost certainly was an Apex engineer as those wrenches come out of an Apex owned factory (not a factory that Apex contracts out to, one they own)-- the very same factory that produces the double detent Craftsman and Husky sockets. I highly doubt the wrenches were a Chinese design since they are coming out of an Apex owned factory. If they had contracted out to a non-Apex factory, it would be likely that it was a Chinese design.

Since they are produced in an Apex factory, it's highly unlikely that it is a non-Apex design. Tool companies rarely buy another company's design and produce it themselves, preferring instead to just outsource the entire production to that outside company. Tools that are made in house are almost always in house designs for tool manufacturers (this is very different from machine shops where most, if not all work, is based on outside designs produced in house).

Maybe Apex has Chinese engineers on staff, but no matter what, with a contract as big as the Craftsman one, there had to be USA staff signing off on it. Ultimately Apex still found it acceptable to produce those "exquisite" wrenches.

If we were talking about Danaher tool group circa 2005 I could maybe say theres a chance but between the spin off and Bain Capital Apex has been gutted. I'd be very surprised if there was any domestic R&D staff left at all however im pretty sure most of them were let go when Apex was shuttering plants. Keep in mind this is a company that now only has 1 manufacturing plant and something like less than 200 employees left.


To further add to this let me ask you something. Why would Apex re-design the wrench to make it worse when they'd already had a wrench design for decades? There is no logic in it or to what you're saying. Its not like making a combo would require 'engineering' when they've been making them all along. Honestly I think you're just seeing the fruits of laziness. They contacted a Chinese supplier, either sent some of the older wrenches or a spec sheet and said 'make something similar', and here is the result. As far as the bloated open ends go apparently nobody wanted to reject them when they first showed up so they remained.

 

[Infinia]

Much of Gearwrench is also designed by Apex. The ratchets (45, 60, 84, 120) are all Apex patents, not a Taiwan OEM. A significant amount of gearwrench can be tracked back to Apex Patents, even the wrenches (modified open ends, locked mechanism, etc). The gearwrench sockets are probably not Apex design as they lack the traditional double detent that is on every Apex designed socket (Armstrong, Masterforce, USA Craftsman, Chinese Craftsman, Husky).


It almost certainly was an Apex engineer as those wrenches come out of an Apex owned factory (not a factory that Apex contracts out to, one they own)-- the very same factory that produces the double detent Craftsman and Husky sockets. I highly doubt the wrenches were a Chinese design since they are coming out of an Apex owned factory. If they had contracted out to a non-Apex factory, it would be likely that it was a Chinese design.

Since they are produced in an Apex factory, it's highly unlikely that it is a non-Apex design. Tool companies rarely buy another company's design and produce it themselves, preferring instead to just outsource the entire production to that outside company. Tools that are made in house are almost always in house designs for tool manufacturers (this is very different from machine shops where most, if not all work, is based on outside designs produced in house).

Maybe Apex has Chinese engineers on staff, but no matter what, with a contract as big as the Craftsman one, there had to be USA staff signing off on it. Ultimately Apex still found it acceptable to produce those "exquisite" wrenches.

I'm sorry there is so much conjecture in your post I don't know where to begin.
NO one would know this level of detail unless they were a fly on the wall in dozens of meetings AND had access to multiple business contracts. This is just one mans opinion with an active imagination of how OEMs do things in PRC.. Sears has buyers and engineers too, even if Apex had the contract ( do they?) to make these lobster claws they could easily farm it out to other suppliers and act as distribution QC middlemen. All I DO know is that blaming a poor product design in a tight market segment (can you say constraints) squarely on the shoulders of (American) Engineers is pure naivety. Like I said before it was simply from a factories menu, pick one. A) fancy design uses new tooling w/ high quality steel / extra process or B) beefy open end w/extra polished chrome. They obviously chose B. They pocket the savings and pass the shiny garbage on to you! \This ain't rocket science, People that really know what goes down, know that the engineers are low down in the chain of authority. They get asked just one question after all the decisions are made "does it meet the specs?"/> Even then with the low quality of raw materials used their answer will be dependent on statistics* rather than yes or no. ( *upon hearing "maybe" product manager pulls the rest of his hair out and screams "shoot that guy" and hires a new one. LOL)

 

[Wamsutta]

lets make more threads discussing craftsman chinese lobster claws

lol!

 

[ajchien]

I can recall a few times where the massive lobster claw has made for difficult removal and I'm only a weekend warrior. I can imagine as a pro it would get frustrating

Same here. I would even go say that sometimes even if the open end is not lobster claw shaped, there are times that one brands' open end allows access while another does not.

 

[Loscaldazar]

If we were talking about Danaher tool group circa 2005 I could maybe say theres a chance but between the spin off and Bain Capital Apex has been gutted. I'd be very surprised if there was any domestic R&D staff left at all however im pretty sure most of them were let go when Apex was shuttering plants. Keep in mind this is a company that now only has 1 manufacturing plant and something like less than 200 employees left.

To further add to this let me ask you something. Why would Apex re-design the wrench to make it worse when they'd already had a wrench design for decades? There is no logic in it or to what you're saying. Its not like making a combo would require 'engineering' when they've been making them all along. Honestly I think you're just seeing the fruits of laziness. They contacted a Chinese supplier, either sent some of the older wrenches or a spec sheet and said 'make something similar', and here is the result. As far as the bloated open ends go apparently nobody wanted to reject them when they first showed up so they remained.

Apex is gutted? One plant and 200 staff?

Apex is one of the largest tool companies in the world.

They hade 8,500 employees in 2016. Yes, all are not USA, but as is typical with most US based companies with foreign manufacturing, the bulk of engineering/designing and corporate structure is in the US.

They have almost 40 different brands:

Allen, Armstrong Tools, Atkins, Belzer, Campbell, Caulkmaster, Collins, Crescent, Delta, Erem, GearWrench, H.K. Porter, Iseli, Jacob's Chuck, JOBOX, K&F, Kahnetics, Lufkin, Mayle, Nicholson, SATA, Spline Gauges , Weller, Wire-wrap, Wiss, Xcelite, Airetool, Apex, Buckeye, Cleco, Cooper Automation, DGD, Doler, Dotco, Geta, Master Power, Metronix, Quackenbush, Recoules, Rotor, Utica

and whatever other ones I have forgotten?

They have over 30 factories throughout the world: North America, South American, Europe, Australia, China, and Taiwan.

Apex claims they manufacture ONE MILLION SOCKETS PER DAY.

The closing down of the Armstrong plant is drop of water compared to the bucket that is Apex Tool Group. Their yearly revenue is 1.5-2 Billion. That's hardly gutted! They're a massive company, hence why the have so many contracts like Craftsman, Husky, Masterforce, and so many more.

Apex still has so many other brands to support that they can't just get rid of all their engineers and hope to continue to function. Dotco air tools are still USA, and that's another Apex brand. Not sure where in the US, but they still have to have a plant and engineers for at least that, never mind all the other patents they have filed over the past few years for stuff like the 120XP ratchets, 120XP wrenches, surface drive open end wrenches, locking mechanism on ratchets......

So, why wouldn't Apex just pull an engineer and tell them to design a cheap wrench with cheap materials that we can sell to Sears/Craftsman and HD/Husky? There is very little Apex needs to contract out for.... they make hand tools to power tools to paint guns to tape measure to manufacturing machines to frame stretchers for cars to......

On a similar note to your question to me:

The RP wrenches that Apex produced in the US were also redesigned when they switched to producing them in China with lobster claws. They were then redesigned again and switched to the non-lobster claws like the US made ones? Why not just use their original RP design and produce that in China instead of first going to a lobster claw design? Both chinese RP version (lobster claws and no lobster claw) were produced in the same factory, so they didn't just switch suppliers and get different designs there. All three designs were made in Apex plants (USA, lobster China, non lobster China).

Why did Apex switch from a normal open end size to a lobster claw when they switched from a Taiwan OEM to their own Chinese plant for Gearwrench and craftsman ratcheting wrenches? The lobster claw appeared on multiple apex made items when they switched to their own Chinese (SATA) factory.

Here's an answer

From looking at SATA tools, it appears they too sold lobster claws circa 2011 (right time period). I attached the clearest photo I could get out of that catalog. SATA is China's #1 selling tool company. SATA is a tool company created by Apex specifically for the Chinese market.

Apex merely used the designs they already had for China and SATA tools for their Gearwrench Ratcheting wrenches (chinese made), Husky and Craftsman Contracts.

The 2014 SATA catalog shows newer, slimmer, wrenches, so I bet that in the next few years we well see Craftsman/Husky wrenches also slim down once those forging molds wear out. Good news.

I'm sorry there is so much conjecture in your post I don't know where to begin.
This is just one mans opinion with an active imagination of how OEMs do things in PRC.. Sears has buyers and engineers too, even if Apex had the contract ( do they?) to make these lobster claws they could easily farm it out to other suppliers and act as distribution QC middlemen. All I DO know is that blaming a poor product design in a tight market segment (can you say constraints) squarely on the shoulders of (American) Engineers is pure naivety. Like I said before it was simply from a factories menu, pick one. A) fancy design uses new tooling w/ high quality steel / extra process or B) beefy open end w/extra polished chrome. They obviously chose B.

You are making conjectures too, so not sure what your point is. How do you know they went to another company to get these wrenches made? How do you know their only two options were an expensive high quality/slim wrench and a cheap/lobster claw wrench? Are you making assumptions too?

Why wouldn't a company with 8,500 employees just design it themselves? They already are making them in their own factory.

That sure is a crazy conjecture I'm making with my active imagination that a company as large as Apex designed the wrenches themselves, especially since the wrench design is shared between some SATA wrenches (an apex created brand), Gearwrench (ratcheting wrenches made in China specifically), Craftsman (Apex Contract), and Husky (Apex Contract) and that these are ALL made in an Apex owned factory in China?

I am really being crazy saying that Apex designed these because they use the design on multiple brands they are responsible for manufacturing in one of their very own plants?

Why would they buy a competing company's designs to produce in their own factory that Apex owns?

Maybe I am wrong that they are American engineered, but here is what I can say for certain.

1. Those wrenches come out of an Apex Chinese Factory per the factory code stamped on the back that makes the sockets, RP wrenches, ratchets, and much more. Those factory codes indicate the SATA Chinese Plant (owned by Apex).

2. Apex does have the contract to make those wrenches for Sears.

3. Someone in the US said this crappy design was okay to sell to Sears, and Sears was okay with it being sold as a Craftsman.

Bean counters are certainly to blame, but if Apex did contract out this wrench (in design) to another company, are you also saying that Apex does no testing of designs that they contract out?

Even HF tests tools that they contract out to manufacturers and they do that with US engineers- can one of the largest tool companies (apex) in the world and US not do the same?

Or do they blindly trust that everyone else is producing tools properly to their specs? A US company with 8,500 employees can not find a single US engineer to double check that tools coming from China meet the appropriate specs before they send them to Craftsman/Sears? Risky business practices.

These wrenches only **** because Apex and many US employees are okay with them sucking.

I think it's more ridiculous to say a company like Apex would have to contract out for something as simple as a wrench that will be used between multiple brands.