rewiring a service panel

[pudgybear]

when the P. O. added on to the existing house he left the old house on a fuse box and i want to change it over to a circuit breaker box, my question is how do i know what wire comes in on what side,,,,,,,, RED on left side of box - black wire on the left ? is there a correct side the BLACK should go on?

 

[volleyball]

Red and black are both hot and can be on either.
So is the fuse box a sub panel? Or the main? With a red, I would think a sub.
Is this something you want to defer to a pro? I have no problem with you doing but it may be cheaper and healthier to farm this out.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Are you going to pull the meter or at least have the power company pull it while you are installing the new box.

If it is like my house, I would pay for new service entrance cable. If you are pull a permit, you will have to install ground rods.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Can u post some pics? Sounds like u have an old service panel!

 

[pudgybear]

I am confident that i can replace the panel i just wondered if the wires make any difference which way they go in the panel! this panel was the old house main fuse box when they added on the new addition they moved the incoming service to the new house and then they run a wire from the new incoming box to the old fuse box, all i have to do is turn off the new breaker and replace the box!

 

[n8n]

makes no diff at all. There should be three wires coming in, two of them (likely red/black) will be hot, the third will be neutral/ground. The only one that matters where it goes is the neutral/ground; the other two are interchangeable as they are both 120VAC with respect to ground, just 180 degrees out of phase with each other.

+1 on having the meter pulled and re-evaluating your grounding situation. I'd also consider adding some kind of surge suppression at the panel if you live in an area that gets thunderstorms. I had a TVSS breaker in the panel at my last house and when a tree dropped a HV line onto a 240VAC line near the house I only lost a couple items (I think the control board for my dishwasher, power supply for the electrostatic air filter, and one really old surge protector/power strip) whereas a neighbor/coworker a block over lost a whole bunch of electronics including several TVs; PEPCO refused to pay for anything stating it was an "act of God" or some such... I can't say for sure that it saved me but having surge strips at all electronics plus the TVSS breaker seemed to be a prudent step.

Now after reading some of your replies, this fuse panel seems to be a *sub* panel to the new main panel which is located in the addition to the house, correct? If that is the case you should actually have FOUR conductors from the main panel to the fuse box; hot, hot, neutral and ground. The neutral and ground should be isolated from each other at the subpanel. Neutral and ground should be bonded together only at the main panel where the service entrance is, not any panels downstream.

 

[theoldwizard1]

...all i have to do is turn off the new breaker and replace the box!

My Dad did that at his cottage about 20 years ago. The original "fuse box" had 4 - 15A fuses !

 

[pudgybear]

Hey WIZARD, that's exactly what i have here, former lake summer home then when grandma passed away the whole family moved in - built a new addition and then lost the house to foreclosure

 

[theoldwizard1]

Hey WIZARD, that's exactly what i have here, former lake summer home ...

So how bad do your lights dim when the well pump kicks in ? Does your refrigerator motor ALWAYS start on the first attempt ?

It took SEVERAL complaints from Dad to get the power company to do some serious testing. The voltage would drop to about 90V when a heavy load kicked in. The technician (a lady) counted the houses on the drop from the transformer and declared there were "double" the recommend number.

New transformer and all was well ! No more starting the table saw by flicking the blade with a stick before hitting the switch !!

 

[volleyball]

My Dad did that at his cottage about 20 years ago. The original "fuse box" had 4 - 15A fuses !

You were luckey, most had been replaced with 30a, on the same 14g wire.

 

[pudgybear]

W O W wizard! mine is not that bad,,,,,,,, my box is 6 spaces - 2 20amp and 4 15 amps.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I am confident that i can replace the panel i just wondered if the wires make any difference which way they go in the panel! this panel was the old house main fuse box when they added on the new addition they moved the incoming service to the new house and then they run a wire from the new incoming box to the old fuse box, all i have to do is turn off the new breaker and replace the box!

makes no diff at all. There should be three wires coming in, two of them (likely red/black) will be hot, the third will be neutral/ground. The only one that matters where it goes is the neutral/ground; the other two are interchangeable as they are both 120VAC with respect to ground, just 180 degrees out of phase with each other.

+1 on having the meter pulled and re-evaluating your grounding situation. I'd also consider adding some kind of surge suppression at the panel if you live in an area that gets thunderstorms. I had a TVSS breaker in the panel at my last house and when a tree dropped a HV line onto a 240VAC line near the house I only lost a couple items (I think the control board for my dishwasher, power supply for the electrostatic air filter, and one really old surge protector/power strip) whereas a neighbor/coworker a block over lost a whole bunch of electronics including several TVs; PEPCO refused to pay for anything stating it was an "act of God" or some such... I can't say for sure that it saved me but having surge strips at all electronics plus the TVSS breaker seemed to be a prudent step.

Now after reading some of your replies, this fuse panel seems to be a *sub* panel to the new main panel which is located in the addition to the house, correct? If that is the case you should actually have FOUR conductors from the main panel to the fuse box; hot, hot, neutral and ground. The neutral and ground should be isolated from each other at the subpanel. Neutral and ground should be bonded together only at the main panel where the service entrance is, not any panels downstream.

The feeder wire would most likely be only 3-wire if it was done prior to 2008 NEC code cycle. If this is the case and thr OP upgrades the panel he is required to bring it upto current code which means a new 4-wire feeder!

While the OP is at it, he should check to make sure the fuses or replacement breakers are sized correctly. I cant count the number of times Ive seen the wrong size fuses or breakers installed just waiting for a fire to happen!

And the meter doesnt need to be pulled to replace a subpanel! Nor to correct the grounding!

 

[n8n]

The feeder wire would most likely be only 3-wire if it was done prior to 2008 NEC code cycle. If this is the case and thr OP upgrades the panel he is required to bring it upto current code which means a new 4-wire feeder!

While the OP is at it, he should check to make sure the fuses or replacement breakers are sized correctly. I cant count the number of times Ive seen the wrong size fuses or breakers installed just waiting for a fire to happen!

And the meter doesnt need to be pulled to replace a subpanel! Nor to correct the grounding!

Agreed to all, the comment about pulling the meter was before I read down and saw it was a subpanel. Never hurts to verify a good ground though.

I'm pretty sure that a subpanel in the garage at my old place had separate neutral and ground and that was done well before 2008 code possibly mid-1980s, so hopefully the OP will find four conductors.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Agreed to all, the comment about pulling the meter was before I read down and saw it was a subpanel. Never hurts to verify a good ground though.

I'm pretty sure that a subpanel in the garage at my old place had separate neutral and ground and that was done well before 2008 code possibly mid-1980s, so hopefully the OP will find four conductors.

Yeah ive seen old installs that i expected to be 3-wire and they turned out to be 4-wire with isolated neutral. Others have been 4-wire but some dofuss who didnt know what they were doing bonded the neutral bar to the panel. U just never know what you will find.