Riello gun problem

[mikester]

I have a 4 year old Biassi boiler with a Riello F5 burner. It has a 50 gallon Vaughn hot water tank on the third zone. For the past month or so Ive had a little problem with the burner hanging up when the tank calls for hot water. Ive actually been standing there when the control trys to start the burner. Sometimes it fires and sometimes it doesnt. The fan comes on, the burner starts for a split second and then it stops. Sometimes it doesnt start at all. Ive have a friend thats a plumber and he came over last week to check it out. The electrode tips were burnt which he says was from too much heat. He thinks its because of a delayed start. Fuel goes in, burner hangs up and then theres too much heat when it kicks on. He replaced the filter, nozzle, screen, electrode, checked the fuel lines. He feels the only thing that could be failing is the primary control. Before I buy one, what do you guys think ?

 

[Jackfre]

Riello's are thebest burners on the market. Also the most sophisticated. Your Biasi/Riello package is a an excellent combo. You can continue to replace parts hoping that it fires reliably, but that burner, as all others, must be set-up properly to function reliably and efficiently. You need a Riello trained, properly equipped (oxygen analyzer, etc) tech get this right.

 

[mikester]

I think he used an oxygen analyzer to set it up. The guy that usually services the boiler just does a smoke test. This guy had a real expensive looking meter with a probe attached to it. Checked all sorts of stuff with the probe stuck into the chimney. First with the burner off than with it running. I think he even checked the draft with it.

 

[Jackfre]

The next time "the guy who usually services it", and only does a smoke test, hit him in the head with a hammer and tell him you will send him the repair bills. No kidding'! You can't touch a proper oil burner set-up, let alone a Riello, in these tight little wet based boilers, like your excellent Biasi, without full instrumentation. That type treatment is costing you money. Very 50's service on the most modern equipment.

 

[kkenney]

I have a 4 year old Biassi boiler with a Riello F5 burner. It has a 50 gallon Vaughn hot water tank on the third zone. For the past month or so Ive had a little problem with the burner hanging up when the tank calls for hot water. Ive actually been standing there when the control trys to start the burner. Sometimes it fires and sometimes it doesnt. The fan comes on, the burner starts for a split second and then it stops. Sometimes it doesnt start at all. Ive have a friend thats a plumber and he came over last week to check it out. The electrode tips were burnt which he says was from too much heat. He thinks its because of a delayed start. Fuel goes in, burner hangs up and then theres too much heat when it kicks on. He replaced the filter, nozzle, screen, electrode, checked the fuel lines. He feels the only thing that could be failing is the primary control. Before I buy one, what do you guys think ?

Did you find out what the problem was, I have the same set up doing exactly what you described, from day 1

 

[Jackfre]

How has your been serviced?

 

[kkenney]

How has your been serviced?

Mine was a brand new install i did myself. I had a tech come out and do the start up

 

[kkenney]

 

[htmdude57]

I didn't see this when it was first written in. OP, the start up sequence should be: prepurge of air for a certain number of seconds, on older (before 2005?) units, the oil pump pressure opens the air shutter on the right side, the oil valve to the burner opens, burner tries to light, if it hasn't lit in 4 seconds the unit shuts down. If it shuts down after the 4 seconds of trying to light, that means the optical sensor didn't see fire. So, I would think your problem was the optical sensor. I don't know why your technician replaced everything else but that?

Oops, I just saw that the OP wrote in 10 years ago. No wonder I didn't see it.

 

[Jackfre]

That is nicely done. The unistrut rack is a nice touch and allowed a nice compact install. What is the firing rate on your unit? I can’t offer a great deal on the Riello as I’ve not touched one in probably 20 yrs now, but here is something to think about. It looks like you have an external chimney, yes? If so, is it lined and what size liner? External chimneys can be a problem as they get cold, cold and before the appliance can draft properly you have to get the stack up to temp. That can lead to a lot of hard starts and hard starts build to the type issue you have. I was on the NFPA 31 Committee in ‘92 when Brookhaven Labs did the venting study on oil. that study was pushed into Appendix E in the code book and being an appendix it is not an enforceable part of the code. The manufacturers did not want to require lining of chimneys on oil. It was simply an issue of cost reduction and market protection against gas. So often folks look at the chimney and go, “yeah, that‘s the chimney. It’s all right.” I have relined systems like yours with 4” Pellet Vent (which is L-vent) before and the system settled right down. Why? Well, there is little mass to heat up and draft is easier to establish. Again, I’m not saying that is the issue, but consider the entire system.

 

[yeldogt]

That would make a german auto engineer proud .....

 

[Jackfre]

This is from an old copy of 31.

 

[kkenney]

That is nicely done. The unistrut rack is a nice touch and allowed a nice compact install. What is the firing rate on your unit? I can’t offer a great deal on the Riello as I’ve not touched one in probably 20 yrs now, but here is something to think about. It looks like you have an external chimney, yes? If so, is it lined and what size liner? External chimneys can be a problem as they get cold, cold and before the appliance can draft properly you have to get the stack up to temp. That can lead to a lot of hard starts and hard starts build to the type issue you have. I was on the NFPA 31 Committee in ‘92 when Brookhaven Labs did the venting study on oil. that study was pushed into Appendix E in the code book and being an appendix it is not an enforceable part of the code. The manufacturers did not want to require lining of chimneys on oil. It was simply an issue of cost reduction and market protection against gas. So often folks look at the chimney and go, “yeah, that‘s the chimney. It’s all right.” I have relined systems like yours with 4” Pellet Vent (which is L-vent) before and the system settled right down. Why? Well, there is little mass to heat up and draft is easier to establish. Again, I’m not saying that is the issue, but consider the entire system.

Is the firing rate GPH. ? Mine .65-60W and brick chimney no liner not sure on height it’s a ranch house

 

[Jackfre]

Yes, it is GPH. Let’s say 15’ on the chimney height and your lateral (vent connector) length is 4’. According to E at 82% a 5“ liner can handle .4-1.25 gph firing rate. A 4” liner can do .25-.65 gph. I would go with the 4” and I’d use pellet vent. Dura-vent make a good PV. Again it is L vent rated. The advantage is that it is insulated. If you were to use a 5” single wall pipe you would have to insulate it and it gains diameter and as it does so it is just a giant pita. I think metal-fab and air-jet make 5” insulated chimney L vent. A liner will smooth that system right out.

 

[kkenney]

Yes, it is GPH. Let’s say 15’ on the chimney height and your lateral (vent connector) length is 4’. According to E at 82% a 5“ liner can handle .4-1.25 gph firing rate. A 4” liner can do .25-.65 gph. I would go with the 4” and I’d use pellet vent. Dura-vent make a good PV. Again it is L vent rated. The advantage is that it is insulated. If you were to use a 5” single wall pipe you would have to insulate it and it gains diameter and as it does so it is just a giant pita. I think metal-fab and air-jet make 5” insulated chimney L vent. A liner will smooth that system right out.

Thanks

 

[fitter30]

You need a person that works on oil.heat full time. Call your oil provider for a recommendation. Need a new set of eyes looking at it.
Smoke test is 50 year old tech. Analyser has to be used.