Robust air conditioner

[bluedog225]

It’s clearly GJ worthy overkill. For a workshop in central Texas. On solar power. But it has a lot of appeal in terms of long-term reliability and repairability. I would run the stink out of it while the sun shines off solar power so electricity isn’t an issue.

I’m not very impressed with the reported longevity and reliability of mini splits. I know quality is not terrible, but I wouldn’t mind getting a decade more out of an air conditioner. In fact, given the power is sort of free (after buying all the solar stuff), I want the most reliable and repairable unit I can find.

Talk me out of it.

Thanks

 

[Snapped-off]

I "GJ" all kinds of stuff. But a $5k window unit ain't it.

 

[whateg01]

I've never thought a window unit was more reliable than a mini split

 

[kaymccampbell]

You can get the whole minisplit, solar panels n all right here.

EG4 Hybrid Solar Mini-Split Kit | 24k BTU Unit + up to 3150 Watts of Solar PV [KIT-E0012]

The EG4 Solar Mini-Split AC is a hybrid AC/DC system that connects to solar panels for efficient, cost-saving heating and cooling with easy DIY installation.

signaturesolar.com

 

[bluedog225]

I wouldn’t proceed on it unless I could get it cheap. I’m just so tired of unrepairable stuff that craps out and gets tossed.

 

[bluedog225]

You can get the whole minisplit, solar panels n all right here.

EG4 Hybrid Solar Mini-Split Kit | 24k BTU Unit + up to 3150 Watts of Solar PV [KIT-E0012]

The EG4 Solar Mini-Split AC is a hybrid AC/DC system that connects to solar panels for efficient, cost-saving heating and cooling with easy DIY installation.

signaturesolar.com

Yep. That’s the competition. But will it still be running in 10 years?

 

[whateg01]

... I know quality is not terrible, but I wouldn’t mind getting a decade more out of an air conditioner. In fact, given the power is sort of free (after buying all the solar stuff), I want the most reliable and repairable unit I can find.

Talk me out of it.

Thanks

Window units aren't typically very repairable.

 

[firebirdparts]

I don't believe you've found your tribe.

These people posting here haven't heard of Freidrich.

 

[bluedog225]

I don't believe you've found your tribe.

These people posting here haven't heard of Freidrich.

If not these guys, I’m not sure there’s hope.

 

[PCustoms]

I could buy a cheap window unit annually within the life expectancy of that and still come out ahead.

That money buys a mini split. Installed.

 

[bluedog225]

$800 a year for 10 years? Doesn’t pencil out.

 

[Snapped-off]

I don't believe you've found your tribe.

These people posting here haven't heard of Freidrich.

Have you heard of Rheem?

 

[kaymccampbell]

Yep. That’s the competition. But will it still be running in 10 years?

Will the Friedrich? I know they've got a rep, I had one for 10 years, that was 10 years old when I got it, 50-some years ago, but that was then and this is now. Do they back it for 10 years?

 

[lolaetype]

Seems way over priced to me. You can go to Home Depot and buy a 23,500 BTU LG unit for $670. About $4,200 less than the unit in question. Buy the LG window AC and bank or blow the difference. Put it in a 4.5% CD and every 5 years you can buy a new AC unit with the interest.

 

[gizardlizard]

It’s clearly GJ worthy overkill. For a workshop in central Texas. On solar power. But it has a lot of appeal in terms of long-term reliability and repairability. I would run the stink out of it while the sun shines off solar power so electricity isn’t an issue.

I’m not very impressed with the reported longevity and reliability of mini splits. I know quality is not terrible, but I wouldn’t mind getting a decade more out of an air conditioner. In fact, given the power is sort of free (after buying all the solar stuff), I want the most reliable and repairable unit I can find.

Talk me out of it.

Thanks

Not impressed with the longevity of mini splits? I installed four of them at work back in 2009. I was so pleased with them, I ended up putting a 24k unit in my garage over 3 years ago. All have been working flawless. I clean filters twice a year and clean coils once a year.

 

[Bert_]

I'm with you on the short lives of mini splits. About 12-14 years ago they started putting mini splits in the highschool here. Now they have been steadily replacing them all in the last few years. Only a handful of the original ones left running.

I run a Kenmore? window unit in my house. It's probably 20 years old. Works fine.

 

[Torque&Recoil]

I think (hope) that the short-life reputation of mini-splits is because of the cheap ones. Spend only a few extra dollars and get one with a good reputation. I have a friend who buys USED Mitsubishi's and has no problems with them. I am not that brave, but you get the idea.

Also consider that it is possible to recharge a mini-split. A professional isn't going to want to do that, because he makes a living from selling and installing new units, and it's an easy sale. But a knowledgeable DIY person with the right tools can recharge and extend the working life.

 

[ArcReactorKC]

I'm going to guess with little research other than my own experience that the window unit will be non-functional in <5 years.

 

[txvwnut]

I'd go with a mini-split. You can get them with ceiling cassettes that put the air closer to where you'd be working, most of them are inverter units which are less power hungry than that window shaker probably is. Plus a decent one will offer a dehumidify function, I know mine does, not to mention the heat pump giving heat in the winter, all at half the cost of that window shaker.

 

[545_days]

Another vote for a $699 window unit from Lowe's. If it lasts more than 2 years you are money ahead. FWIW, the el-cheapo Home Depot window unit in my SE Texas garage is currently 8 years old and still working fine despite the grinding dust.

 

[TRWham]

When I entered the HVAC industry nearly 40 years ago, Friedrich was absolutely the top of the line window unit. Oddly, their commercial refrigeration equipment, which was the segment where I worked for a competitor, was complete ****. I have no idea who now owns Friedrich or if their stuff is any good. I would say you need to do a lot of research before paying $5k for a 1.5 ton window shaker.

 

[Bert_]

You want one that will last? Go buy one on a household sale for $25. Probably hold up better than a brand new one.

The one I use for my house is old enough it uses r22. Probably 15-20 years old.

 

[American Locomotive]

I'm with you on the short lives of mini splits. About 12-14 years ago they started putting mini splits in the highschool here. Now they have been steadily replacing them all in the last few years. Only a handful of the original ones left running.

I run a Kenmore? window unit in my house. It's probably 20 years old. Works fine.

To be fair, that's not an atypical lifespan for commercial equipment. The building I work in is only 15 years old, and the Trane RTUs had major problems when I first started 5 years ago. They replaced a whole pile of compressors a few years ago.

 

[danski0224]

To be fair, that's not an atypical lifespan for commercial equipment. The building I work in is only 15 years old, and the Trane RTUs had major problems when I first started 5 years ago. They replaced a whole pile of compressors a few years ago.

But, but, it's hard to stop a Trane...

 

[bonneyman]

I wouldn’t proceed on it unless I could get it cheap. I’m just so tired of unrepairable stuff that craps out and gets tossed.

You're not alone, my friend. Look at the popularity of estate sales, thrift stores, Goodwill, Habitat Restores. Alot of people are flocking to those places snatching up old fashioned stuff because they're tired of new, cheap stuff.

But, but, it's hard to stop a Trane...

Trane used to be the gold standard in my book. Their training classes were top notch.

 

[danski0224]

Just going out on a limb a little bit...

I would guess that many or most of the mini split "unreliability" issues stem from a shoddy installation, whether "pro" or "diy".

Yeah, there may be bad materials or designs, but the stuff should make it through the factory warranty and the optional extended parts warranty if registered.

 

[fitter30]

Doesn't matter what brand puts or the cost the reliability is keep the equipment clean. Filters and coils. Window shakers, through the wall unit (ptac) have to be cleaned at least once a year ( pulled and hosed off). They and minis have filter that only stop kids ,cats and rocks. Split system can any filter you want to use. The thicker pleated the larger has more sq inches to get dirty. Shop has fine dirt like saw dust the high efficiency units have enhance coils which have little slits cut into the fins. Once they get dirty its hard to get the dirt out of them.

 

[T444e]

But, but, it's hard to stop a Trane...

I thought the saying was 'It's hard to start a Trane'

 

[danski0224]

Once it's broken (again), yes...

 

[T444e]

Ah, so you mean as delivered from the factory.

To be fair, every manufacturer has issues on occasion.

 

[reader2580]

An HVAC guy on YouTube regularly replaces mini-splits that died just out of warranty. They are almost never worth repairing if out of warranty. He installs mostly high end units like Fujitsu. Those die an early death at times too.

If I install a mini split I will be very happy to get ten years out of it, and expect less.

 

[rlitman]

...I would guess that many or most of the mini split "unreliability" issues stem from a shoddy installation, whether "pro" or "diy"...

I've installed four. Three of them have failed one way or another, and none of them due to installation issues.

Two had blower motor bearing failures. The variable speed motors are encased in epoxy, and while they rely on 12 cent 608 cartridge bearings, they are designed to be unserviceable. For the Friedrich (Fujitsu manufactured) one that I installed in 2008 and fixed in 2018 (it still works fine), a replacement motor would have cost over $300 (and is now NLA). On that one, I was able to chisel apart the motor housing plastic, desolder the control board to access the shaft, pull the bearing off, heat and drop on a replacement, solder the board back on and JB weld it back together. For the one that failed in my LG, a locally sourced replacement motor was $168. I bought four @ $24 from China, because they're ALL the same trash (all these blower motors in all sorts of appliances rely on questionable 608 bearings rolling out of China), and now I have spares for when they too become NLA (and this one is a two-head unit, so who knows when the other one will fail).

The other developed a leak in the evaporator coil.

I completely get the draw of mini-splits, but the prices are astronomical, and it's all in labor markup. If we hadn't raced to the bottom in quality engineering, and units were designed to be serviceable, the price would double, and nobody would even bother to own one. As it is, they really only make sense when you can install it yourself.

 

[dcg9381]

I have no idea who now owns Friedrich or if their stuff is any good. I would say you need to do a lot of research before paying $5k for a 1.5 ton window shaker.

They're local to my state. My understanding from the people that worked there a few years ago was that they were basically importing and re-labeling most of their units from China. This particular unit, is manufactured in Monterrey, Mexico.

I had a PTAC unit from them (given to me by an employee) - it was fine for years.

The EER of this unit is 8.5–9.7. Not even that efficient for a window unit.

$5000? That's nuts.

What's attractive about a window unit to me is ease of install. That's it. I've installed 2 Daikin mini-splits, they've run fine for 5 years. And 2 Mr. Cool units, all still running. Far more efficient. You can buy a 24k Daikin unit that's 21 SEER for about $2k.

You can get the whole minisplit, solar panels n all right here.

EG4 Hybrid Solar Mini-Split Kit | 24k BTU Unit + up to 3150 Watts of Solar PV [KIT-E0012]

The EG4 Solar Mini-Split AC is a hybrid AC/DC system that connects to solar panels for efficient, cost-saving heating and cooling with easy DIY installation.

signaturesolar.com

Now the EG-4 stuff (I've bought a lot of their inverters and batteries) are straight off the boat. This "system" (to me) is a bunch of hogwash, as solar is inherently unstable (all it takes is partial shade of a cloud). If you want to do this sort of thing, it's going to need a battery system to "buffer" power if you want it to run reliably. EG-4 support *****.

What's unique about this unit is that is powered by both AC and DC.

It requires 1100 watts of power. It comes with 2800-3000 watts worth of panels. That's going to work just fine in full sun. It's going to shut down if a cloud passes overhead unless you're buffering through batteries.

It's price is "attractive" with that many panels....

Here's what solar output looks like on a pretty sunny day with some clouds present. These are 6000 watts worth of panels (non-optimal tilt) - the dips you see would shut the unit down and this system is 50% panels, so scale this down.

 

[The Metric System]

Most of the features (and associated cost) of that SH20M30B unit are intended to make it safe to operate in hazardous environments rather than to increase its mechanical reliability.

The balance of the features are to improve robustness against aggressive corrosion or abnormally high ambient temps, which would only be relevant to residential applications with direct ocean exposure and/or in one of the hottest places on earth.

None of these address the most common reasons that refrigeration units fail. Some of the features (such as a hot gas bypass circuit) even add potential leak points or refrigeration failure modes that otherwise would not be there.

I would absolutely not pay ~$5k for this unit if my only goal was getting an air conditioner to last 10 years.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

if you insist on spending $4800 on an AC, at least get one worth the money.

 

[pbon]

I have an 18k btu Friedrich in my 800SF garage. Paid about $700 in 2017 or 2017. Works well. Has a 12k heater in it also, which I used for a year or two and found adequate. But I have NG underneath so I now use a Big Maxx 50k hanging shop heater for heat. Does better when opening the garage doors in below freezing weather.

 

[ArcReactorKC]

if you insist on spending $4800 on an AC, at least get one worth the money.

Legitimately thinking about installing one of these in our new place. The ancient air handler in the attic is cool only and it's due to be replaced as is. Beyond that our heat is hydronic baseboard from propane and an electric boiler will cost me almost as much as this MRCOOL heatpump system. The only painful extra cost will be reducting everything from the basement instead of the current attic ducting.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Legitimately thinking about installing one of these in our new place. The ancient air handler in the attic is cool only and it's due to be replaced as is. Beyond that our heat is hydronic baseboard from propane and an electric boiler will cost me almost as much as this MRCOOL heatpump system. The only painful extra cost will be reducting everything from the basement instead of the current attic ducting.

hvac equipment doesn't belong in unconditioned attics. it's the right move.

don't forget, you CAN keep your hydronic baseboard and change the heat source. plenty of air-to-water heat pumps out there. I would not do a resistive boiler if I didn't have to.

 

[ArcReactorKC]

hvac equipment doesn't belong in unconditioned attics. it's the right move.

don't forget, you CAN keep your hydronic baseboard and change the heat source. plenty of air-to-water heat pumps out there. I would not do a resistive boiler if I didn't have to.

I have been looking at heat pump boilers. The pricing just puts me off.
With our large solar array I don't have utility costs to worry about by going full electric.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I have been looking at heat pump boilers. The pricing just puts me off.
With our large solar array I don't have utility costs to worry about by going full electric.

what've you checked out? some people think theirs are made of gold.

also any idea on required BTU? my mod-con peaks around 55k delivered in feb cold snaps.